George G

I've bought 1000s of record from US dealers in the 13 years I've been on eBay and at the most maybe a couple were polished, nothing I can remember specifically. Then, 2 out of 10 (I said before that I bought 6-7 records from Soul Source but upon further review, as they say in the NFL, it's probably 10) bought off here were polished. I am well aware of a few US dealers who sell polished records, I don't buy from them. I don't think that the UK is the only source of polished records. I DO expect that a dealer would recognize such and mention that in the description. It's not a deal breaker, it's just a more accurate description of the condition. After the one expensive 45 I returned because of overgrading and polishing, I decided I won't buy an expensive record without a good quality sound file and a label shot (the record I returned had some minor water damage unmentioned by the seller).

This also happens with 'mod' and garage records bought by Europeans from the US and resold on other (mostly) forums and online communities. Their reasoning is that they can deal with people in their countries who are eBay-phobic.

I've bought 6-7 records from SS over two years. My main complaint is that two of the records were polished. Polishing seems to be a real problem in the Northern scene. I returned one but the other was acceptable for the grade given. Lately though I've been sticking with buying within the US. It's just a lot easier.

Living in the US it's a lot easier to find bargains, especially on major label records and ones that are local to your area. Anyways, here's some of the more interesting ones Patrinell Staten 3x Little Curtis and Blues Black On White Affair (both) Seattle Pure Dynomite Priceless all were under $10 Lester Tipton $1 Tina Roberts - One way...25 cents Differences - 5 minutes 25 cents Limelights - Don't leave me.....this was painful, $70 or $75 Lotsa funk as well The punch line is that when I found all these records (except the Limelights) I had no idea what they were. Just looked interesting.

Snaps is a garage record. moderately rare but not that expensive.

I bought this record, mainly because the labels will stay on it and it's in nice shape. I can always use clean copies of this record, it's a good two sider. The group was from Cleveland and performed in blonde wigs similar to the powered wigs associated with US Colonial statesmen. This is simply a case of the large hole not being punched. Had their been some intent on making this the finished product, the lines on on the label would have continued all the way and the unused space would have text. The hole punching is done after the record pressing. I don't get hung on on the error as a collector gimmick for older 45s. I suppose in the 1970s when disco started to influence the market there may have been more 7" records with a small hole, as I presume DJs preferred that all records have the same hole size. In the US, 7" EPs almost always have a small hole. Some 7" ad records (movie ads, LP ads) also have a small hole.

Just remembered another soul 45 I have on Clearhill - Derrick and the 3 Gs. It's an OK song but the recording quality is poor so the record has no energy.

Dave, I collected my info nearly 20 years ago. Once I get a mystery solved, I'm done. I have no idea what became of the band or the masters, with the exception of one of the original band members for which I have contact info. Sonny Flaharty and Kenny Smith are pretty approachable and might know more. I have some Clearhill 45s, most of them are bad. The only ones that I remember being good are this and the Kenny Smith. I have another soulish 45 by the One and Onlys and thank goodness their discography lives up to their name...it's almost unlistenable. The other 45s are rock and country.

The Grey Imprint 45 came out in November '69

The Grey Imprint started as a salt and pepper band - the local (Dayton, OH) term for bands with black singers and white instrumentalists. The photo (which looks it was taken from the one I posted some years ago on the BuckeyeBeat site) is from a couple years later when the singer was Sonny Flaharty (sitting in front), he is not the singer on 'Message'. This version of the band also made a record or two. Other than Sonny, most of the players are the same, including guitarist Clay Yarber. Yarber was killed in a commuter plane crash outside of Buffalo, NY a few years ago. Other salt and pepper groups were London Fogg (and the Continentals) on Gold Star/Imperial, Jaguars of 'the Metropolitan' fame, and the Citations who recorded on Vangee and Fraternity. There's probably more that I'm forgetting.

I think this discussion is about dance clubs in the US...so I will talk about that. From the late 1950s until the late 1960s, there were 1000s of clubs and venues in the US. Most of these clubs featured live music, R&B bands, rock bands, soul groups. The whole scene was about dancing, and doing the latest dances. The Twist is probably the biggest dance of the whole soul/rock dance scene. That's why you have so many records with dances as the lyric theme up to the late 1960s. Some places had DJs, usually from the local radio station, play records, but these were usually events held at local schools. The US had teen clubs, for people 18 (or 17) and under, and nightclubs, for 18 and older. The difference being that 18 was legal drinking age (now it's 21). A pretty good overview of the dance scene is found in the "Chicago Soul" book from years ago. There were some places where people would sit and 'watch' a show....but this didn't really start happening until the late 1960s. Places like the Apollo Theatre were the exception - the action was really in the local clubs in the towns where the groups were from. The live shows these groups played were 99% - or even 100% songs that were well known and already established - 'hits of day and some oldies' we used to say. Occasionally groups did their own songs - whether they were on a record or not. Whatever they did, they had to get the audience dancing or at least engaged. Look at any picture from live club show from the time, you'll see people dancing and a few up at the front of the stage (usually girls ogling male performers). A lot of the records were recorded simply as a promotional item. You could ask for more money if you could say you were a recording act. That's not to say artists didn't want to have a hit record.....but it was a lot easier to make money performing live than waiting for a royalty check. Groups could get $300, $500, or more for a single night. That was a lot of money back then. There was a "Chitlin Circuit" that groups would travel if they were able to get a record or two out or they had someone backing them. The circuit was primarily in the US South , established when segretation was still legal, and kept going even after. Clubs, hotels, restaurants that were available to black acts.

Just wondering what the definition of 'big money' is.....some of the records mentioned here are under $1K. That doesn't seem like big money in the grand picture...I would have guessed you're talking about stuff well above 2K. Many of the seriously rare records were recorded on the cheap and mastered/pressed with second rate facilities so they are not going to be as polished and powerful sounding as a record cut at a major Detroit studio with the Funk Brothers or the Pied Piper team behind them. I don't think the Mello Souls would compete well in a sing-off against the Volcanos or the Ambassadors.

A couple tips - make sure your search allows for all currencies, not just the default one in your country of origin. I've missed stuff that's in Euros, Canadian $, etc - make sure your search for all, not just auctions or BINs. As Bob says search engines are balky, the best way to search is to take all constraints off. Another one is record speed/format. Searching for just 45s/7" will not show things that are not listed under that format - which is optional by the buyer.

Ha, I bought this when it came out. Probably their 'best' record, although "United" is a classic. Wish I would have seen them perform live back in the day. Getting back to the subject, I have several George records, although not really soul related. One of them is a movie commercial spot record for "George", a movie about a dog by the same name. I bought it willfully because of the name. My family surname is an unusual Slovak name, I've never seen it anywhere on a record, book, etc.

for me, it's a garage record, not soul.....I've known of it for 20+ years, never (AFAIK) offered for sale, band members say it exists but none of them have it, none of the many collectors I know have seen it. It's on an Ohio label that issued several other garage and soul records. It's nothing great musically....one of the songs was released commercially on a different format. Still, it seems to be the one elusive record I need to complete several facets of my collection.

Thanks!

Help out a stupid Yank here....What's Manifesto? (besides a song title)? Something like Waxpoetics?

I'd guess about 50-75 copies were sold. They were selling 2-3 per day for many days. I suspect some buyers asked to buy a few at a time. I think this record is dull. I've listened to it several times and don't even remember what it sounded like.

I have this, don't know where it is, I'll look around tonight. Might have the TAD number, but I don't remember. TG hosted horror films in Portland, OR. The record was recorded at Northwestern (same place that recorded the Kingsmen's Louie Louie). The record turns up pretty regularly there. Zero connection to Northern (or any other) kind of soul, though.

RE: third song - could it be the "everythings alright' song from Jesus Christ Superstar? It's been recorded several times. Easily found on Youtube to check

Probably means that he looked in the Manship price guide and gold fever convinced him they were originals. Or maybe he's talking about a different John Manship who works at the chip shop down the street. 400 quid for the Imperial Wonders? I'm selling at that price....

If you really want to settle this, I would suggest you contact a band member, or Erik Lindgren at Arf Arf records, the guy who put together the comp that featured the songs (from which you've posted the pic.....want to make sure he gets the credit) and find out from the source.

I've owned 'hairline crack' records for 25+ years and not had a problem with them. A crack is just a condition matter like a scratch. It may or may not make the record skip or unplayable. Some cracks can get worse but there are ways to shore them up depending on the type of crack. If you can get a decent playing copy for a bargain, why not?

Oh crap, I had this record, I think I threw it out! Looks like you may get one.Wasn't it some jazzy instrumental?

The Traditions on Barclay (from Pottsville, PA) recorded three 45s, the first one was a garage sound on Richie. All white guys. In 1970 the band had evolved into another band, Sweet Vengance, and released one 45 on MGM. They are not the group that recorded for A-bet. The Pottsville Traditions story has been covered in a book and on a CD, with pics, etc.