George G

I bought a pic from this seller. They seem to have some intimate knowledge of BJY, the band, and the story behind the recordings. I'll let you know what I've learned as I am curious myself about some of these loose ends. I won't bother anyone here with arcana about the other Bad Boys/BJY recordings that I'm interested in, if anyone else wants to talk, send me a PM and we can compare notes. https://www.ebay.com/...=item4ab286285c

The real Footsee is shown here.... https://www.mortaljourney.com/2010/12/1970-trends/lemon-twist-or-footsie-toy

Sounds like a nightclub singer. It's an anomaly for the label, it's a solid orange color with block print label name. Has the look and sound of a favor for someone's girlfriend or relative.

Yes, it is. These songs (and the 'Realistics' 45 on De-Lite) were issued under those names to try and make a fast buck. They couldn't use the Sensations name so they came up with the alternates. All the songs were cut probably '69 or earlier. Way Out went to 16 track in the summer of '69 so I think they were done before that, I'd have to listen to the other 45s from that time and see if the sound matched. Possibly as early as '67. Rather than multi quote I'll comment on garethx and quinvys posts. The fault in Demanding Man sounds like someone bumped the acetate cutter and it veers out of the groove a tad. Maybe someone was simultaneously rigging the Way Out 'security system' shotgun! I don't know if the record got airplay but it was released in 1970 but recorded before then. Two other rare WO 45s, possibly rarer than DM would be Joan Bias (from '63, it stinks) and the Harmonics (released about the same time as DM), which either had the stock sent somewhere or discarded because it turns up the least in Ohio. The Harmonics 45 is no great shakes either. Keep in mind that the Sensations were from Michigan, and the DM 45 was released well after they were at their most popular.

These mid 60s Baby Huey records were big in Pittsburgh at the time. The St. Lawrence one with Monkey Man / Messin' With The Kid especially. I'd guess that a lot of the used copies around came from there.

This one? https://www.ebay.com/itm/MONKEY-MEEKS-TAKE-ME-YOUR-HEART-DJH0-0133-ROXBURY-PENTHOUSE-PRODUCTION-RECORD-/260925461636?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item3cc05e9484 Interesting that the writer is Billy Wade McKnight. I have a pretty good garage 45 by him on the Custom label from Texas. He also cut a dull 45 on the famous International Artists label (13th Floor Elevators, etc label). I think he cut some other stinkers.

Yes, I think we talked about this before - for example there are two garage 45s on Lakeside that use Chess numbers, the next number after those was the Wurds 45 I mentioned which is on Chess.

I dunno, you probably know more than I do, would explain Baby though. I don't think the Pebble Episode (which I have) mentions Sue. It's a solid blue label.

Of course, and there are other collectors in the US who have some very rare soul 45s. The network of collecting in the US is a lot more scattered than in the UK where everyone seems to be no more than two degrees of freedom apart. Therefore, a lot easier to account for known copies. Just in the past six months I learned of copies of the Springers on Wale and the 2+2 on Velgo that were in US collections, for example. The people who have/had them know what they are.

Nope, strictly a local label. BW must be a rare record though, it's outside of my area of knowledge There is a garage 45 on J-2 that has two different pressings with different artists credit. The Pebble Episode is the correct name but Vincent Oddo (the label owner, I believe) is on some copies. I wonder if they backed up the Poets?

Cobblestone is a weird label. There are some really common records and some really rare ones. Especially the later 45s with the brown 'large stone' label. A rare rock record on Cobblestone is the Grayps. Took me several years to get it. A companion label to Cobblestone is Team, which I think are all rock records although the Feathers (a common 45) is a mod spin. Matt, are the Chess 45s you mention pre GRT or later? I have a couple Chess discogs, maybe I should look for myself! An interesting sideline to Chess history is their short lived Abbey Group label (only 1 45). This was supposed to be their underground rock label featuring Ohio artists (it's a long story). It was terminated with the GRT sale and some planned 45s were cancelled. I wonder if that happened to some planned soul records.

Steve, thanks for the input, as I said in the intro, there is a lot of missing information. I found a lot of my old notes in case this effort has legs and people want to keep adding to make it more accurate. The Nathan Williams is a 70s record, that's why it's not included. Ed Robinson, also from the 70s. My list ended had a cutoff of '70 as that's when I was keeping track of this. I don't have the info for Tommy Tate - when is that from? The idea of scarce was a record that while there are some copies around, it's still not something that is found often. I've seen more copies (promo) of the Yum Yums on ABC then of the three records mentioned. There's also the question of supply and demand, how often is the record offered for sale. Me living in the US, I have a different perspective. Records that were exported in the 1970s escaped my attention. My info is from the US field findings from the 1980s and later George

I forgot about that.... I know it's a hard record to get, how rare is it?

Bob, I have a lot more information that I have not posted. This was my rev 0.3 version. I have been collecting info on records like this for a long time....30 years and counting! However, I cut off around 1970.

My main interest is in records from the 1960s, I don't know much about records from the 1970s, especially soul Based on my experience and the comments here, I'll make a list of rare records on major labels. This list will include garage as well as soul, since I know more about certain garage records and why they are rare - might be useful. For now I am not going to mention stock or promo, in most cases promos will be much more available. This list is 1960s based (I don't consider anything after 1970) so almost every promo has both sides, avoiding the problem with 70s same side promos. This is a first draft and will have a lot of missing items. Motown family labels not included, mainly because I don't know them well enough and there is way more info available on them from other sources A scarce record is one that comes up for sale maybe once a year or less often, but can be had with patience and money. Rare records are ones that are rarely offered for sale. In some cases, only a couple known copies A&M - nothing rare. Terry Knight and Pack 45 listed in discogs has never been found. ABC - Yum Yums is scarce. Some records listed in discogs that have never been found (Impressions, Styx (rock?)). Merry Dragons, a garage record, is somewhat scarce. Amy - Lou Ragland is scarce. A couple scarce garage records (Big Boy Pete) Atlantic - nothing rare Atco - nothing rare Bang - nothing rare, a couple records listed in discogs have never been found Bell - Bernie Williams and Hytones are scarce, but I know three people who have found BW in the US in the past few years. A couple records listed in discogs that have never been found (Untamed, forgot the other) Buddah - nothing rare Cameo - nothing rare. A couple 45s listed in discographies have never been found (Shags) Capitol - nothing rare Chess - Wurds (garage) is scarce or rare Columbia - Stereos 45 (early 45 by the Stereo Freeze group) is rare, withdrawn and supposedly only 50-100 copies distributed. Zombies (rock) 45 is rare. Date - 1st release of Zombies "Time of the Season" is scarce Decca - nothing rare Diamond - nothing rare Dot - I forget which soul 45s are scarce. Syndicate and Sherlocks "Skin of My Teeth" (both garage) are scarce. A couple more borderline scarce rock 45s Dunhill - Willie Hutch is scarce Epic - Remains (rock) 45 "I'm Talking About You" is rare Fontana - can't think of anything rare Imperial - nothing rare King - Jr McCants "Try Me..." may be the rarest major label (non Motown) 45. Keith Murphy and Daze (garage) is scarce Laurie - Tropics (garage) is scarce to rare Liberty - nothing rare Mercury - Stormie Wynters is rare. Rooks (garage) is scarce. Rooks 45 was only distributed in certain parts of the country. MGM - nothing rare Parkway - Chubby Checker is scarce. Vickie Baines "Country girl" is scarce or rare. Leather Boy (garage) is rare. A couple 45s listed in discographies have never been found (Blue Rondos) Philips - can't think of anything RCA - nothing rare Roulette - East Coast Journeymen (rock) is scarce Scepter - Johnny Maestro is scarce(?), Dickens (rock, aka NRBQ) is scarce, not as rare as claimed by some sources Smash - Dowliners Sect (rock) is somewhat scarce. Underpriveledged (garage) is scarce Swan - mispressed Tony Galla is scarce. The proper TG record is not especially rare. Just Two Guys (garage) is scarce. Tower - Sam Williams is scarce.Don't recall artist but title (rock) "flashing sun things" is rare 20th Century - Cliff Butler and Doves (rock) is scarce-rare Uptown - nothing rare United Artists - nothing rare Verve - One of the Velvet Underground 45s is scare or rare. Wand - Walter Wilson, Ivorys are rare. Gentlemen Four and maybe a couple others are borderline scarce Warner Brothers - David Bowie (rock) is scarce. Marque V (rock) is scarce

The seller was in the Oceans, a band from Athens, Ohio. The Oceans 45 is worth about $100. I've had a few copies. Why he tries to sell records at crazy prices, I dunno. I suspect that when he started selling records some years ago he sold stuff for too cheap and he's afraid that he'll miss out again. Another theory is that he's the type of Baby Boomer dude that has cheap phony Doors and Janis Joplin posters in his den and just wants to show off like he's big shot.

It's the same Charlie Daniels. However, the record mentioned was not cut in Ohio. At the time he was based out of Washington, DC. The band he was in, the Jaguars, had been around since the late 1950s. They recorded for Epic in the early 1960s. There's no connection to the Jaguars from Dayton, who were a salt and pepper group. The Falls City/Counterpart publishing was used for stuff recorded at Ray Allen's studio in Louisville. The link between this operation and Daniels is not clear, I believe that he had sent some material to a connection in Louisville and that's how a handful of his songs ended up with that publishing. There was no information about this record in Shad O'Shea/Howard Lovdal's archives when we went through them around 1990, so I know the record was cut in Louisville without his involvement, and not under the Counterpart record operation. Believe me, if there was money to be had, Shad would have kept the info!

FWIW, I won the copy on eBay today. It's the first release. The record was a local hit and was rereleased on Rouser, probably a few months later. Beyond that, I don't know. Both sides of the Rouser have the intros cut, but otherwise they are the same. In the case of Chick Chick, I prefer the longer intro. I haven't made up my mind about Angel. I already have the Rouser release, the label with the devil head is way cooler than the generic Tiny label so I'll probably keep it. When I get the 45 I will compare the mastering. The Tiny label is probably 10x rarer than the Rouser. I've only known about this record for 5 years but this is cleanest Tiny copy of the three or so I've seen for sale.

I'll try to make a sound clip and post it, at least what I can transfer. It came with other acetates, test pressings, and 45s from Cleveland. It may be earlier than 1971.

I have an unlabelled acetate that I'm trying to see if it was ever released. It sounds like about 1970/1. Female lead, male backing. It's a midfast soul sound with a little bit of funk but pretty primitive sounding. I don't have the ability to make a sound file. It's in bad shape so I'm only able to listen to part of the song for now, but the end has a repeated chorus that sounds something like 'calling.....caring.....twenty one sixty nine'. The first two words have the female singing followed by the male group echoing. The words I list I'm shure aren't correct, more of a phonetic sound, as I said the disc is in bad shape, and not recorded/mastered that well and hard to hear clearly. The tempo and feel sounds a bit like the "it's like thunder, lightning" part of "Knock On Wood". Sound familiar at all?

Two records for sale, price in US $, Payment by Paypal, Standard airmail postage from US included in cost. Grading by SS recommended grading standard For sound samples (in .wav format) - email buckeyebeat@hotmail.com To reserve, email to the same. For some reason I don't get notified when I get a PM so please email Terry Callier - Look At Me Now - Cadet 5623 demo - nice VG+ shape, plays fine, has a very slight slow warp DNAP - $300 Ruby Sherry - Feminine Ingenuity - Take 6 yellow issue - strong VG, plays fine with an audible pop or two - $260 I will try to respond ASAP but I'm 8 hours behind UK time thanks, George

You just need some inspiration!

Thanks again for the replies. I suspect I heard the record on CKLW from Windsor, Ontario just across the river from Detroit. It's likely they played it to satisfy Canadian Content (CanCon) requirements that were put in place around the time that required Canadian radio to play a certain amount of Canadian recordings. I don't know anything about the other Lucifer record, it's probablt something I heard during the past 30 or so years but I long forgot.

Thanks for the response. I have the 45 and LP, but I don't know where the LP is, I haven't had it in hand for years and several moves/collection sort outs. I don't remember it being really solidly rock or soul, more like a group along the lines of poppier Blood Sweat and Tears. I suppose they were a Detroit area act. The singer's inflection is a bit odd. I would never had thought about this as a record to play at a dance night...at least the US dance nights I know, so that was interesting.

Back in 1971 or so I heard the song "Dont You Think The Times A Comin" by Lucifer on the radio for a while. I don't think it was really a hit, just something that got play on local radio. I always liked it. So...who was he? It doesn't really sound like the typical Invictus / H-D-H sound - more jazzy and light. I know this is not really a 'Northern Soul' artist/record but I woke up this morning thinking about this song and this is the best source I know of for soul artist info, so... TIA George