Gene-r

I think that's a very good idea. Will do when I get home tonight.

Not taken personally at all Gareth - just that it's obvious you're on Jock' s side. Maybe the use of the word "puerile" gives that away?

Why thank you for the 'lovely bloke' compliment Russ - I am flattered! However, I would say that anyone who starts a debate of any sort is likely to set themselves up - just depends which idiot decides to be obstructive to the debate at the time. I'm not on my own on this.

No Gareth. No one is calling you a blinkered, narrow-minded hypocrite, so don't try to put words into my mouth. That is an example list of my personal faves - I don't shove belief down anyone's throat. You've given your opinion (good or bad) on some of the sounds there, and that's what the debate is supposed to be about, for those of you who didn't know. Keeps it healthy. And who's retreating? Obviously you're trying your best to defend Jock's stupid outburst by turning it round on me. Doesn't wash.....

What's this - the Jocko fan club rushing to his rescue? Jock's arrogance and personal attack exposed his true colours, and I am proud to have played a major part in his exposure here. End of.

Why thanks Mike - really nice of you to say so. Hope you are well. Must correct you though - I lost my passion for NORTHERN soul a couple of years ago, mainy for the reasons and type of people you've seen here.

Quite right Marc. Just one thing - you should have said NORTHERN soul

Good point - I bet quite a few black vocal groups and artists felt hard done by when almost every single by Pat Boone was an insipid cover version of a doo-wop / R&R track of the day. Thankfully, people like Alan Freed broke tradition and made this type of music available to all ears. After this, blue-eyed cover versions seemed to improve in quality. There are, of course, some excellent British NORTHERN soul records which are cover versions (eg, Dennis D'Ell "Better Use Your Head", Chapter Five's "One In A Million", Kenny Lynch "My Own Two Feet" etc).

As Lord Luther says, "my mistake"!

All right for you to do so then, isn't it?

Go back and read my answer to your previous post. Who is the hypocrite now?

Forget even asking them what their fave blue eyed Northern sounds are - guaranteed one little Hitler with Tourettes and a large chip on his shoulder will spoil it all with stories of how they created the world.

And if you think I'm backing off from this without a fight, you're wrong. So Jocko, let's address your big I-am respose bit by bit: Gene thinks it is okay to call people's names just because they like soul but does not think it is okay to defend yourself to this name calling in big bad nasty way, Who is the hypocrite here? Erm, who's calling people names? "Soul snob" was used as an adjective to describe what some people refer to others as. And if anyone's calling people names in a "big bad nasty way", it's you. Who is the hypocrite here? Go on and read Gene's words and his opening assumptions if you don't allow pop music to be called Soul, not Northern, then its open season on name calling. Ditto. Who is the hypocrite here? Its not my opinion on what is in Soul music, its a historical fact, hence my suggesting he educates himself with reading a world leading book on the fact It's YOUR opinion - clearly. Your condescending, patronising, holier-than-thou attitude on reading a world-leading book to educate myself stinks. You obviously ARE a soul snob, and one who gives the rest a bad name. Who is the hypocrite here? Pete, the normal doyen of free speech, gets offended when someone defends themselves because they swear. Yet he gets annoyed when people try to shout down racist and bigoted bile that often used to be spewed on here, shouting about being beaten down by the "loonie left". Who is the hypocrite here? See Pete's post just before this one for your answer. If I am wrong on this Gene debate the points I made rather than throwing a strop because I called you nastier names than you called us. So who's throwing a strop? You, obviously. I challenged the points in a calm, intelligent manner - something that you're obviously incapable of due to lack of skills on both counts. Who is the hypocrite here? Perception is a powerful thing and based on your point on your topic and your responses, most of my assumptions of you stand based on your stance, I have no other way to judge you. You don't even know me, you know nothing about me - so who the hell are you to judge me? Who is the hypocrite here? Gene closed it because I called him names in response to him calling me names, collectively rather than personally admittedly, quite ridiculous really. You really do have a severe persecution complex, don't you. Me calling you names? You do that quite well yourself without my help. To quote: "And off course we are soul snobs, although to me its quality control and it rejects the pure pop pish that you and your like support." Who is the hypocrite here? If you don't want to feel people angry at you think what you say, I challenge you to re-read your opening post and see any sort of balanced view or debate in that, you were stating a position and calling people names because they disagree with it. Hardly a debate is it. As I said before, who's calling anyone names? So cut the "poor me, poor me" sob story. So now you're faced with the facts, you don't like it, do you? TOUGH. And let's not forget that you're using the factutlaly incorrect excuse that I called you names as a feeble excuse just to launch your own nasty and abusive tirade - just like a bully does. Who is the hypocrite here? Taking everything into acount, WHO IS THE HYPOCRITE HERE? Obviously you, Jock - no two ways about it. I don't need to say anything else - Mike already has. To quote "jocks reply was out of order due to insults and abusive tone" I rest my case.

....and pigs DO fly......

I have reported it on that basis.

Thanks Pete - that's two of us reported this abuse of power.

What a hypocritical thing to say, since you obviously condone and approve such behaviour. And what you describe here is exactly Jocko's attitude.

Yes Chalky - your response above smacks of you taking "my mate Jocko's" side and trying to excuse his bad behaviour. Right then - let's dissect this 'articulate' response for what it really is, shall we? "I think this is one of the most moronic, ill informed and pathetic posts ever, and typifies why I f**cking shake my head whenever a Northern fan tries to initiate a debate on soul. " "The knobheads who go on about the colour only are as uninformed as you and your lot." "WTF does 27 years on a dance scene tell you about soul music, go and educate yourself FFS." "I do not know any real soul fan who states they do not like any blue eyed music, another anomaly I suspect from a Northern fan trying to be clever, and off course failing." "...to me its quality control and it rejects the pure pop pish that you and your like support...." ...it's a taste question, I have it, lots of others have it, you don't. It doesn't mean we all have to agree on that taste but the fact I won't accept it allows you and others to bang on with the soul snob thing. Pathetic, puerile and more about you than it is about me. Its nothing more than quality control to me, when the quality dips, I stop going out and leave it to the DLT fans like you." "Although this to me is either a rare species that exist either not much or are in your imagination to allow you to continue your soul snot tirade, hiding the fact you just don't f****ng get it." "Get over yourself, there are loads of places that don't have that quality control but do not expect me to go. I repeat, I am soul fan, I want it wherever I go, you don't so lets make sure we are never in same place. Based on this I would hope that was inevitable. " "Maybe that is all you know but is just arrogant and misguided bullsh*t on your behalf to assume this." "And before you come out with the usual don't get angry/personal, there is no other way to deal with rubbish like this. Not only do you re-write some American history, you attempt to re-write the history of the UK soul scene, really would have expected better from you." Now I'll tell you something for nothing. There is nothing more I like than healthy debate. What you see here, in stark contrast, is pure condescending abuse from some tyrant who thinks he's better than everyone else, and it's unnecessarily aimed at me. OK, I started the original post, but no need for this level of vitriol, is there? That is OUT OF ORDER. - no excuse for it. As has previously been said, the ramblings of a madman or some holier-than-thou being. In my closing response on the previous thread which you have very kindly stupidly copied here, how else could I treat a personal attack like that, other than attack back and go for the jugular, albeit in a more constructive, sane and intelligent manner (since, unlike some people, that's just the sort of person I am). So much for your idea of an ARTICULATE post. Need I say more?

Well, I shall certainly bring your behaviour on the post to Mike's attention and let him see or do as he thinks fit. Jock's post well informed? Certainly was, informing us how frequently the F word can be used inappropriately, and how one can resort to childish insults. And by the way, it's my post and I have a right to close it as necessary, so get a grip. And no - it's not a dig. Some people just don't like to know the truth about themselves.

Oh dear Jocko - that time of month is it, or haven't you taken your medication, or were you bullied as a young boy? All I wanted was to create a healthy debate - not some load of self-righteous bile spouted by someone who thinks they're THE authority on "northern soul" or the big I-am (move over Mr Godin). In general, I think the majority of posts here make way for healthy debate, apart from your inane (boring) ranting, and those who follow you like sheep (many of who aren't even old enough to know what they're agreeing with). And yes Chalky, that means you - as a member of forum staff, and a pillar of society that you try to be, you should hang your head in shame for giving approval and thumbs-up to such an abusive post. You're a disappointment and a total embasrrassement - call yourself a moderator? Yes, I am one of the DLT fans, and always have been, and I'll always like the other greats who frequented Radio 1 during the 70s. As for your "I want it wherever I go, you don't so lets make sure we are never in same place. Based on this I would hope that was inevitable" quote, don't make me laugh - you are so childish! You sound more like a lover scorned, or a playground bully. However, I mst say that I'm dazzingly impressed by your psychic powers - how would you know what I want, and what I don't want? You don't even know me, thank God! Moronic, ill-informed and pathetic? Well, I think you're a highly-strung, self-centred, arrogant, condescending, patronising jumped-up little man who thinks the Northern Soul scene owes you a living, but I don't suffer epileptic fits over it. And it also serves to remind me that it's people like you that make me glad that I'm no longer part of the "Northern Soul" scene. You can keep it, sir. You may think you look clever with your rants and cheap four-letter insults, but it really does makes you look the complete gibbering idiot that you are. So perhaps now you should get off your high horse, and crawl back to your gin-soaked armchair.......

The debate on the Javells post regarding black soul v white soul really got me thinking, and relating the differing views to my 27 years on the scene. I like to think that soul music is as diverse as the people who listen to it and buy the music - but wherever you go, there will always be a blinkered cross-section of people (OK, soul snobs if you want), namely: - Those who refuse to acknowledge "white" records as soul, and will refuse to listen, buy, or even dance to them. - Those who refuse to have anything to do with soul sounds that don't originate from certain states of the USA, or from the USA as a whole. - Those who hastily write off all blue-eyed soul as pop. And, on the same hand... Those who are so blinkered and narrow-minded that they refuse to open their minds or even listen to other types of music other than soul (who even go as far as slating R&B as "rock n' roll" in a derogatory sense), or records that sell for over, say, the £300 price tag. I'm sure there are some that will only listen to records by white artists, but I guess it's safe to say that they are a different entity who have no place on the scene! So, how about a list of "white" records that have always been greately revered on the soul scene, many of which are personal favourites of mine. Which of these are yours? THE MARTELLS: Where Can My Baby Be THE DEADBEATS: No Second Chance THE MODS: Dry My Eyes DEAN COURTNEY: I'll Always Need You BOBBY PARIS: I Walked Away GARY SOL'E: Holdin' On TONY COLTON: I Stand Accused MARK LOYD: When I'm Gonna Find Her LYNNE RANDELL: Stranger In My Arms B J THOMAS & THE TRIUMPHS: Keep It Up THE BUCK ROGERS MOVEMENT: Take It From Me Girl JOANNIE SOMMERS: Don't Pity Me ROCK CANDY / CONTEMPLATIONS: Alone With No Love (I'm assuming it's white) NICKY JAMES: So Glad We Made It STEVE ALDO: YOu're Absolutely Right THE SEVEN SOULS: I Still Love You (bearing in mind the 50-50 mix of black and white in the group) THE TEMPESTS: Just about anything they've committed to vinyl (and yes, I know Hazell Martin is a black singer!) I'd take a safe guess that there is at least one record or artist here that would be a fave of anyone pigeon-holed in the categories mentioned above. So, snobbery, purism, hypocrisy, or just plain narrow-mindedness? What do you think? Would be interesting to see all sides to the debate following this, so let's open the floor......

Tony, you're right there. Issued in August 1974, credited to Nosmo King, and then only as a B-side.

Had my first orange label copy around Spring 1983 - would it have been released then, or was it actually a 70s release?

Are the orange label issues with a bevelled edge also original? Had a couple of these over the years which I've bought and sold for little or nothing.

Cool picture.......