Ian Dewhirst

Agreed. The original Moogs would fill a normal size studio and weren't transportable, so I reckon the tapes would have to go the Moog and have the Moog parts dubbed on to the master. However, I'm pretty sure that the crazy sound on the Sweets is a Moog. If not, what instrument would you suggest it is? Ian

Nope. Far too slow. Ian D

. Bobby Sanders represented Soultown Records and originally released The Sweets' "Something About My Baby" which has the same backing track as Sandy Golden. As Pete said earlier, Bobby controlled the master tapes, hence the connection. Ian D

I think you're right old bean. I seem to remember 'em cranking it up slightly for the UK release. I was fine with the U.S. version.... Ian D

Of course minty originals can and do still turn up. The weird thing about this one, apart from it's similarity to a batch of early 70's boots from the same mastering facility and the same plant, is that it never turned up earlier than the 80's. Given the Bobby Sanders connection and all the other co-incidences with records with similar labels that were bound for the UK, then how come this slipped the net? Bobby was obviously keenly aware of the UK market via Soussan and because we were the only ones who were buying his older stuff, so given the fact that he recycled the Younghearts recording so many times and allowed Soussan to press the Tempos and the Sweets, it's almost inconceivable that a song which recycled a Sweets backing track wouldn't have surfaced earlier dont'cha think? Or am I being far, far too cynical? Ian D

Actually Pete, that was a Moog that was used on "Satisfy Me Baby" wasn't it? In fact, it's probably one of the earliest instances of a Moog being used on a Soul record along with "Reflections" - Diana Ross & The Supremes from the same year. So I reckon they did have access to a synthesizer, so it might not necessarily be a 70's overdub........ Ian D

Yep, good stuff. I'd forgotten about most of those. I'm pretty sure they were all within a 2 year period, I think, from early '74 to '75 was when those particular fonts and designs were used (and I worked that out by using your Black Music summary page). It obviously doesn't prove anything, other than there's a great chance that the record used the same typesetter, got mastered at the same location as the Bob Relf and other boots and was no doubt manufactured at the same pressing plant probably circa '74/'75. Ian D

Ian D

Oooh bitchy Steve. 'Foaming at the mouth', 'inverse snobbery', '£5.00 Squad'? What's got into you this morning? Cornflakes run out.....? Check the title of the thread mate. There's always been conjecture about this record, so it's not like it's the first time it's come up:- I used to have that Great Expectations record. Pretty good in a funky way I seem to remember..... Ian D

Exactly Trevski. There's a story there somewhere....... Ian D

Well, Soussan's bootleg designs were almost like bog-standard poor attempts to replicate the basic simplicity of many of the 60's labels as cheaply as possible. Pretty much always a one base colour label with a black print overlay. However, by the early to mid 70's when Soussan was pumping these out, label designs had generally moved on. So, compared to labels like Buddah, Sussex, Curtom, De-Lite, Casablanca etc, Soussan's bootleg labels were like Retro throwbacks, the Dap-Tone of the 70's if you like..... Ian D

No. A lot of Soussan's boots at that time, made no effort to replicate the originals, but, rather, came out as figments of his own creative imagination mixed in with his eye for detail on credits. The Gems on Tru-Glo-Town, Dan Valery on Pussycat, the Mike Post Coalition on Soul Beat etc, etc. There were loads of 'em Also, when he did appropriate a name or logo, many times the release would have no relation to the label, i.e. Johnny Moore "Walk Like A Man" on Soultown? Yeah right. If you check the scans posted above on the Mob, the Magnificents and Sandra Phillips and then check Popsike for the scans of the originals, you'll see the difference. Soussan probably had a guy who had to knock things up on the fly very quickly and without warning who probably never got paid properly, so what you see in this period is generally the work of one poor guy who Soussan dazzled I reckon. Until the honeymoon ended LOL.... And I concur that he probably ran out of 'R''s. I presume he was using Letraset and hit the last of that character, so made a near substitution. Ian D

Those Robbie Lawson's fooled a few people before the heavy forensics were brought in. 'cos apparently, they were very. very close. Some of these guys are experts at bootlegging their own records. Peter Brown is the king of all that and, again, very good at it and Paul Kyser's been around the block a few times, as has Bobby Sanders on the other coast and Major Bill in Texas. I mean, how many different variations of "A Little Togetherness" or "Soul Symphony" or "Salvation" can you squeeze out? All I'm saying, is that Masterpiece record has all the hallmarks of an L.A. pressing from sometime in the 70's. It would be good to get the facts. Plus, verification on the circumstances of the two new copies would be good. I actually quite like the record but, yeah, I'm cynical about it's provenance. Plus, I have nothing better to talk about @ 10.30 on a Friday night anyway. Ian D

I think we're all agreed it's a legitimate recording by a legitimate artist and I did note the previous Phoenix recording. But it's sure interesting. To be fair, even it was a brand new discovery as of yesterday, I'd have still thought it interesting that the label was apparently put together by whoever did the Soussan bootlegs 'cos those designs are definitely too close for comfort. I do quite like the idea that Soussan, with his customary ways, may well have dug through Bobby Sanders tapes sometime in the early 1970's and selected a pile of interesting recordings that he put on one side whilst he was busy organizing the guaranteed sellers. Bobby may have seen the kind of numbers that Soussan was shifting on the Sweets, the Tempos and other L.A. stuff (Bob Relf for instance) and tried to copycat the approach through the same design/manufacturing system but without understanding the mechanics of the UK scene. Bobby and Simon would have undoubtedly fallen out, so Bobby may have thought that it didn't look that difficult to sell these old recordings and pressed up one himself? And then didn't know what to do with it. I dunno, but I bet there's a story there somewhere. Fascinating stuff ay? I've actually just had a fairly spectacular car crash about 40 minutes ago, which predictably demolished the other car whilst mine stayed pretty robust and drive-able. So a pretty exciting night. But frankly I'd rather talk about this. I'm wondering how the Bobby Saunders/Sandy Golden thing worked with that Sweets backing track? What was the connection there? Questions, questions..... And I'll be ready for a couple of beers next Thursday I reckon. I missed the last one but I was at the one before I think. Are you playing? I wanted to have a natter about your book as well. So yep. See ya there. Oh, and I need some insurance advice too mate.... Ian D

LOL, Australian release sounds like b*llocks - Masterpiece MP004 and released in 1966? Someone's having a laugh here. They seem to know a hell of a lot more than the combined ranks of Soul Source. Here is a label which has no apparent verifiable history, appears to be a one-off, was obviously typeset (badly) by the same guy who did the Soussan boots, was probably pressed at the same plant, has the artist's initials as the catalogue number rather than the record company's, is not in any of the books and has managed to evade everyone until some time in the 80's. Oh, and apparently 2 brand spanking new copies have shown up in the last week available for pocket change. Actually, I take it all back. My mate's just popped round and he coincidentally has a couple of copies with him which he says he bought at Camden market this afternoon. I've looked at 'em and they're definite originals. How much is it worth again? Ian D

I take it this was a one-off label then? No other releases and no info presumably? That wouldn't necessarily be so unusual but can anyone fix an actual year of release? Is it in that great Swiss book with all the oddball labels I wonder....? Ian D

Not really Steve. It's a conjecture thread anyway but surely it throws up some interesting questions no? At that time there were many weird looking Soussan connected things knocking around, some of which were in very minor quantities and some of which, didn't make any sense to bootleg anyway. Lou Courtney's "Me And You Doing The Boogaloo" and the Eddie Parker/Sunlovers "You'll Never Make The Grade" boots being two prime examples - no discernible reason for booting either of them since they were both more or less completely unknown when the boots arrived in the UK. But Simon had to fill his Selectadisc quantities with something every month so he was flinging lots of titles around. There were lots of odd things around from that period, also, occasionally, I'd bump into quantity of what were certainly Soussan boots that had been dumped in goodwill stores over there for one reason or another. Is there anything else on the Masterpiece label to compare it to? The matrix number doesn't make much sense either to be honest...... Ian D

Yep, now I see the difference between the 'R''s. A basic typesetting error. This sure looks like a boot to me or, if not, I'm pretty sure it was the same label designer/typesetter who designed the Soussan boots. As Pete says, there some kind of connection going on via Bobby Sanders by the looks of it....... Ian D

Yeah, forgot about the Mob........ Sandra Phillips...... The Magnificents... Is it bootleg paranoia, or has that Sandy Golden come from exactly the same place? Ian D

I don't know what you mean here. The fonts are the same for both sides and the name's the same....... Ian D

It's the 'bootiest' original I've seen for a long, long time. I was having a conversation last night and I said it reminded me of some of the early Soussan bootlegs in it's simplicity and style. For some reason the boots of Patti Austin "Pain Stain", the Magnificents "My Heart Is Calling" and Sandra Phillips "World Without Sunshine" come to mind. It's looks almost too clean and pristine for a 40 year old record. When I saw those scans the first thing that came into my head was boot. Mind you, I thought the first originals of "We Ooo I'll Let It Be You" by Louise Lewis Miss LL were boots too, so what do I know. Very curious though...... Ian D

What is the going rate for Living Funk - "Fools Love" out of curiosity? Ian D

Perfect professionals Chris. Been using 'em for the last 5 years and they're super reliable. Ian D

Good point. Who was Paula Roussell? Anyone know? Ian D

Can't believe no one's suggested this yet..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZRBCq8vLjg Ian D