Ian Dewhirst

Which is the complete opposite to what I've been led to believe. I've been told definitively that the copy on the forthcoming auction is neither Tim's nor Kenny's and, in fact, is coming from another source entirely (i.e. a 3rd copy as I've said throughout this thread) and the third-party who owns the record wishes to remain anonymous, which seems fair enough. Maybe Kenny's not 'going to the grave' with his copy after all, as a result of all this speculation possibly? Possibly 2 Frank Wilson's for sale if Ginger is correct? Like waiting for buses isn't it.......? Weird, weird, weird.......... Ian D

Every so often there comes a point in one's life, when one has to bow to the inevitable and invite Paul Thrower back onto one's Radio Show. It's invariably a messy business and not for the faint-hearted (especially after a full cooked Sunday lunchtime brunch) but the bull had to taken by the horns, teeth had to be gritted in grim determination and the bullet had to be bitten. So it's gives me great pleasure to present the pre Chi-Soul warm-up with Paul Thrower (aka Chi-Soul) on this Sunday's ORIGINAL MASTERCUTS Show 8/2/09! Sir Percy will deliver 2 hours of aural delights based on his multiple years of soaking up and regurgitating Soul Music from all eras aided and abetted by myself who will chip in with the usual cliche-ridden questions and retarded comments...... There'll be Finger-Snappers, Knee-Benders, Foot-Thumpers, Wrist-Slashers, Pant-Wetters & Head-Nodders galore we promise. Sounds like a PERFECT recipe for a Soulful afternoon! So join us Sunday afternoon between 2.00-4.00pm for what will undoubtably be a highly memorable show folks! See ya on Sunday! Ian D

Imagine if a real one of those came on the market. That'd shatter a few myths wouldn't it? Ian D

Luckily for all the statute of limitations expired circa '82 for THAT copy LOL..... Got me thinking though whether there's ever been an action to reclaim an expensive promo by the record companies? I had a run in with Jeff Buckley's estate a few years ago for trying to flog a T.P. of "Grace" on E-Bay and they threatened me with expensive lawyers and a potential lawsuit........... Ian D

Yeah, probably too much for him the tight git - I reckon his first loves are Ska/Rockabilly so I'll shortern the odds on him......but wait........look at that....... Phil Jupitus and Elton John just jumped into the equation LOL.... Is there a comparable Ska holy grail? Ian D

I know at least 3 Pop/Rock performers, 2 radio DJ's and a famous artist who will want this too. I think it'll go way beyond most mortals expectations. As you say the tale has spread over the last 30 years and reached a lot of people outside the scene. You can bet there'll be a few people would like to display this in their studios/office/galleries...... Current Betting: Damien Hirst Evens Paul Weller 2-1 Mark Lamarr 3-1 Steve Craddock 5-1 Duffy 100-1 Ian D

Yep, Skull Snaps are one unique group. I loved "My Hang Up Is You" before I even heard "I'm Your Pimp" and then when I saw the artwork that was it! My favourite artwork on an album ever and that drop-down gatefold with the skeleton on was a really bold move for a New York black act and indie label any time leave alone the mid 70's. "It's A New Day" is also one of the most-sampled tracks of all time on the Rap/Hip-Hop scene so it's something of an all-round classic covering a few scenes..... We discovered it first though! Ian D

Yep, Skull Snaps are one unique group. I loved "My Hang Up Is You" before I even heard "I'm Your Pimp" and then when I saw the artwork that was it! My favourite artwork on an album ever and that drop-down gatefold with the skeleton on was a really bold move for a New York black act and indie label any time leave alone the mid 70's. "It's A New Day" is also one of the most-sampled tracks of all time on the Rap/Hip-Hop scene so it's something of a all-round classic covering a few scenes. We discovered it first though! Ian D

And for those of you who are desperate for a pristine Frank Wilson promo, there's one available for £60 right now........... https://www.discogs.com/sell/list?release_id=564334&ev=rb Don't get killed in the stampede LOL. I was gonna snag it myself 'cos I sold my last one for £100 but I'm in a generous mood today. Whoever gets it owes me a drink OK? Ian D

I think he did Chalky. I don't think there's much dispute about 'em coming from ARP........ Ian D

John's being enigmatic and is maintaining a dignified silence as he's busy organising a 'Transporter' with a U.S. military escort to get the record to the 24 hour armed-guarded security depot where it will reside until the auction is concluded! I spoke to John as I'm thrashing out an article on this and he's confirmed to me that this is a bona-fide 3rd copy from a private collector who wishes to remain anonymous, as pointed out earlier in the thread. I'm sure any further details will be released when John confirms the auction dates...... Ian D

No. Promos and TP's are generally royalty free anyway as they're primarily used for promotional/marketing use to promote the record. In the U.S. in the 60's that could be as many as 1-20k depending on the policies of the company and the contract. Most times the artist will receive an advance against any potential future royalties. By the time the record company has recouped the advance, recording costs and other expenses there's often not much left for the artist unless they have a huge hit (and even that can be neglible). In the 60's artist royalties could have been as low 2-5%, so most artists never actually managed to recoup the advance. Artists would not normally be expected to make anything from the resale of promo record or even a low-selling issue, as theoretically, they would have been excluded from royalties on the promo and, if the record had been released, they would been accounted to on any sales from the issue only once the advance, recording costs and other marketing costs had been recouped. Plus record company contracts were not designed to be over-generous to the artists back then, as they're not now. In the case of Frank Wilson the record never got issued, so no moolah. It could be argued that Frank has actually made more royalties from the various re-issues then he would have if the record had actually been released! Maybe he should send a thankyou note to Simon Soussan for boosting his income LOL..... Ian D

It's a 3rd copy Etype69. John's getting rid of it before we flood the market with the 25 issues I found in my shed this afternoon! Ian D

Mmmmm. I've had few of those on Soul Intention SL-001 from a dodgy plant in Bedforshire. Wanna buy some? (Will PM you this afternoon with promised update!) Ian D

Yep, you're right. Just found a 25 count box of issues in my shed! Damn, all that time spent chasing a myth........ Ian D

I've got an album going spare - it's the original one that I hammered back in the mid 70's but it plays just fine (just checked it) and it does have the authenticity of being played at Wigan, Cleethorpes, The Central and Samanthas so the history is embellished within it's grooves LOL..... The top and bottom spines need fixing/taping but it is the greatest Soul gatefold album of all time with just brilliant artwork - check my avatar for a viewing. Just checked "Didn't I Do It To You" and it's great! What an album! Not many that have 3 killer Northern tracks on these days...... I'd say both the album and sleeve are Good i.e. both kinda tatty but eminently playable and a pleasure to behold. If anyone's interested just PM me with an offer.... Ian D

Yep! Ian D

But they'll all want the T-Shirt Rod! Ian D

Just to clarify the original story following some research and a couple of calls to those who know, the story regarding the 6 copies came from renowned Motown collector and font of all in-depth knowledge about Motown, the late Ron Murphy (the owner of the copy of Frank Wilson which passed to Martin Koppell and which now resides with Tim Brown). It was Ron Murphy who spoke to directly to the owner of ARP - the pressing plant where F.W. was pressed, when he tried to locate another copy of F.W. and the owner confirmed that just the 6 copies were pressed. Ron was in the business and if anyone could have unearthed more copies it was him. Ron Murphy had a reputation for knowing what was talking about and there's no reason to disbelieve him, so THAT'S where the 6 copies story comes from! R.I.P. RON MURPHY His career could be described as standing in the shadows of the shadows of Motown " as well as the shadows of soul, R&B and techno. Ron Murphy, legendary Detroit music producer, record collector and mastering/cutting plant operator, has died of an apparent heart attack. He was 58 years old. Bulletins started popping up on message boards Saturday night, when news of Murphy's passing shocked Detroit's techno community. House music producer Mike Grant was among the first to post; DJ Brian Gillespie had an appointment to go by Murphy's Sound Enterprises mastering studio on Merriman in Westland to pick up a collection of vintage Detroit soul master recordings last Monday. Murphy's career spanned decades and generations of Detroit's urban DIY music communities, beginning with Motown and other independent soul and R&B labels in the late '60s. As an audio engineer, he manned the classic reverb and echo units during Isaac Hayes' recording of "Walk On By" in 1971 at United Sound. When times were leaner, Murphy sold insurance to struggling soul musicians. Murphy came to the attention of the techno community in the '80s when the likes of Derrick May and Juan Atkins stumbled upon his Westside cutting plant, then called National Sound Corporation. Murphy owned a vintage cutting lathe from the '30s and agreed to master and cut the metal prototype records, dub plates, then used to manufacture techno's ubiquitous 12-inc single. His warm, full sound and attention to a thick but not too loud kick drum arguably gave many a techno record the soul part of its icy soul. He pioneered pressing lock-grooves on records, which allowed DJs to mix to a single repeated loop. Murphy's discography reads like a who's who of techno: Underground Resistance, Jeff Mills, the Throw/Twilight 76/Database electro labels and countless others all went to Murphy. Murphy's meticulous collecting and archiving of vintage soul records, master tapes and original pressings made a visit to NSC a visit to a one-man Motown Museum. Producers would come in with a DAT tape or CD to cut a dub plate for a new record on Murphy's cutting lathe, only to be treated to stories of, say, Marvin Gaye muse Tammi Terrell's wild exploits with Eddie Kendricks as well as other nuggets of vintage lore. Remembers Gillespie: "He said one thing I'll never forget. 'Success to those soul musicians back then was a diamond pinkie ring, a white girlfriend and a Cadillac.' Now you hear that and you laugh, but you have to remember, back in the '60s, that was revolutionary--socially, economically, culturally." Murphy's stories made legendary artists people, not just icons from black-and-white photographs, which could inspire as much as entertain. Still, it was Murphy's ear that was his greatest gift to Detroit techno producers "that and his affordability. As Underground Resistance's Mike Banks told England's DJ Mag in 2005, "Ron Murphy helped many a fledgling Detroit producer's early career. When they had a fucked up, out-of-phase, poorly-segued, four- or eight- track piece-of-s*** production, he would fix it. He would make it competitive to the [stuff] coming out of New York or Chicago. He did miracles with some of those records--ours included. " Adds Gillespie, "He knew a hit when he heard one, whether it was an R&B record or a techno record. When he first heard [UR's] 'Jaguar,' he knew it was going to be a hit. When he first heard [Detroit Grand Pubahs'] 'Sandwiches' he knew it would be a hit." And though Murphy wasn't a household name, he was just fine with that. "He was always like, 'Whaddya wanna hear all these old stories for?' Gillespie remembers. "He was the only guy from back then left who wasn't bitter. "He was the soul of Detroit music for a lot of us." --Hobey Echlin Ian D

I'd pretty much agree with everything you said there Andy, if it wasn't for the fact that the record has been one of the most sought-after records for the last 30 odd years on one of world's most successful independent labels, yet no more than 2 copies have managed to surface in that whole period of time, until the 3rd one popped up just now. This is despite every virtually single record collector and dealer in the world scouring the planet for the record since '77 or thereabouts. I think I'm safe in saying that this record is the exception to the rule for a major label. I'm sure more copies would have surfaced by now had they been around to find........ Also bear in mind the dedicated Motown collectors who have also been investigating every single alleyway and none of them have managed to unearth one despite their contacts. It's a much smaller world these days and anyone remotely interested in rare records could hardly have failed to hear about Frank Wilson, so I think it's safe to assume that the record is an extreme rarity..... But I'm curious myself about where the record was pressed and if anyone has any further knowledge as to how the events unfolded resulting in the record getting scrapped - I'm writing an article about all this so the more info the better....... I might give Berry a call this afternoon if I can squeeze him in......... Ian D

I think Berry almost certainly has one. When I met Tom Depeiro in 1976 (before Soussan got to him), Tom was good enough to show me the archive record library @ the Motown offices in L.A. and the library was meticulously organised in catalogue number order with everything beautifully filed, as was the custom in those days. I had a quick look through a couple of shelves which pretty much confirmed that everything was there - all pristine promos naturally. Tom was incredibly protective about the comprehensiveness of the library which is why I was so surprised that Simon managed to prise the Frank Wilson out of him, if only on 'loan'. Bearing the above in mind, I think it's extremely likely that another copy would be in the Jobete Music files. It would be an automatic system in those days with at least 1 but more likely 2 copies going to the Record Company and another 1 or 2 copies going to the Publishing company whether or not the record was ever released. It's my guess that when Berry flogged Jobete to EMI he would probably have kept the Jobete archive library as well, so I guess it's possible that 2 copies are within Berry's control - even though he may not be aware of it! Incidentaly, it's worth pointing out that Record Companies were actually a lot more efficient in those days. When I worked for Decca shortly after I came back from the States I eventually stumbled into a locked room at Decca Head Office on Albert Embankment which contained a complete run of all the U.S. and U.K. releases including all the subsidiary labels. It was an automatic process whereby the first copies off the press would always be designated for the Record Company archive, the Publisher and the rest to the A&R and Marketing Heads. In certain cases, U.S. copies would also go to their affiliate Record Companies and Publishers throughout the world, which is why, every so often, someone can stumble into a 'run' of certain labels at a record fair. I found an incredible run of Amy and Mala U.S. promos at a record fair in Wimbledon which had been rescued from the loft of a guy who was a promo guy for the U.K. publisher at the time. Anything's possible. However, Motown was very much Berry's fiefdom at the time so the 6 copy theory is entirely possible. We know where 2 of 'em are. There's now a 3rd copy, there's a good chance that Berry has another 2 and the final copy could well be residing in the U.S. national music archives! Helluva story! Ian D

Stranger things have happened........... Ian D

Sounds like an average week in my life........ Ian D

LOL, I thought you'd take the bait! I'll PM ya. I did spend an hour or two going through those Refosoul clips on the other thread and realised in an ideal world I'd need 'em on CD..... Good on ya NIk. Thanks a bunch fella........ Ian D

I was led to believe it was the other way around Chalky, i.e. Tim got Martin's copy which came from Ron Murphy. I understand that there's quite a difference between the two copies isn't there? Although truth be known that's the part of the story that's still a little hazy to me. I'd ask Tim but he's away at the moment........ Ian D