Ian Dewhirst

[quote name='John Reed' date='23 Mar 2010 - 02:30 PM' timestamp='1269354601' post='1292732' I've never been either a motown, demo or UK collector, but there is something special about a green/white or Red/white Tamla record going round a deck. I could be wrong, but weren't the sound quality better on some UK pressings?

I bet that's exactly what happened Max. There were a few around my way in the early 70's. Twink had one for a start. No record company likes receiving returns so there would have been a temptation to try and recycle some of 'em I bet..... Ian D

Whadaya expect Isabel? This is the fun bit........... Ian D

And no one would write poems...... Ian D

Right, I'm gonna blag that LOL! Nice one Chorley. Can you get the script knocked out in the next 3 months mate and I'll drag Puttnam out of retirement to get behind this! Mind you last time I saw him he was stumbling down the steps at the Wag! Ian D

OK, that's my soundtrack for the Prestatyn drive sorted then. The Box Tops blasting all the way up the M6 is today's plan. RIP Alex. Ian D

Don't we all Paul. Unless I'm completely mistaken, didn't he also initially launch the Police via Oval Records, which would obviously be another North East connection? Ian D

Yep, a true 100% music man. His books were a massive inspiration to me and I'm gonna make a point of digging 'em out tonight so I've got 'em for some downtime reading action @ Prestatyn, which would be entirely appropriate given the nature of "Making Tracks" and "The Sound Of The City". These should be essential reads for everyone on here given the subject matter - Charlie covered all this stuff in the early 70's so he was absolutely a pioneer in reporting on the U.S. Soul/R'n'B Music business. I particularly remember his story about meeting Morty Craft on an aircraft and his blow by blow account of the creation of Atlantic Records - Jerry Wexler is my kinda guy. Charlie Gillett should be a massive inspiration for everyone on S.S. because he was an early champion of great Black music and he took the time and trouble to document his experiences. Hopefully they'll now reprint his books and bring him to a whole new audience. He deserves nothing less. R.I.P. Charlie. I know you'll be having fun......... Ian D

Fascinating and dead accurate by the sound of it. I kinda remember it being semi accurate and not a bad effort overall but I wasn't expecting fantastic accuracy anyway really. It's a film innit? They never get it 100% right except maybe Scorcese or Coppolla when they have decent budgets........ As Robert Evans famously said to Francis Coppolla when he was making The Godfather, "I wanna smell the f*ckin' spaghetti"! Ian D

Certainly at the Casino it was. There'd be audible groans coming from the back bar from all us cool record collectors and DJ's but the kids loved it! Ian D

Ian D

No, I was actually cool Pete. Honest...... Ian D

I think it all depends on what age you were at the time. I was 20 and full-on deejaying at 4-5 venues every week and it was acutely embarassing for me trying to explain that there were almost 2 sides to Northern Soul at the time - the real underground proper Rare Northern scene and the more commercial end as represented by "Footsee", "Hawaii 5-0", Joey Dee and TOTP etc, etc. On the other hand, I'm still here 35 years later talking shit so there's hope for all of us! Ian D

OK, by my count that's 3 people on this thread alone that were influenced or excited merely by watching "Footsee" on TOTP when they were kids and are still on the scene some 35 years later. So even though "Footsee" was the crappo end of the scene (and a record I've personally never played ever), it still inspired people onto the scene for better or worse. The film certainly doesn't appeal to me (most UK films don't to be honest) but I don't think it's the devil in disguise either. What it may well do is inspire some people who will see it to dig a bit deeper if they are really interested and thus find out for themselves what the scene is all about. Also, nothing is stopping anyone else from having a try if they think they can do better. Ian D

Nice post, IAN. This site works in a great way when you get guys coming on with a hunger for knowledge and then somebody gives it to them like that. I think THE BEATLES certainly were a significant part of the whole thing, too. Their impact on the states and as you outline, the UK Fashion/marketing/design boom that accompanied it was enormous and if you were BERRY GORDY and you saw how many units THE BEATLES were shifting across the pond, surely logic would automatically dictate you'd want a tie up for your artsists with their company in the UK?

I wonder how many 10 year old kids watched "Footsee" on Top Of The Pops in 1975, were mesmerised by the dancing and ended up @ Stafford or the 100 Club 10 years later listening to the real thing? And would they ever admit it? Ian D

Traditionally these label deals would work in 3 year terms with a 6 month sell-off. There would usually be a huge advance against royalties which would hopefully be recouped throughout the term by the sub-licensor (EMI in this case) ensuring that they 'worked' the label properly by gaining hits, organising Press, Promotion and PR, liasing with agents for tours and obviously Marketing, Distributing and selling the records. In most of these companies there would generally be someone who had either the 'ears' or experience in working licensed product. In EMI's case they had a historical precedent with Stateside so they'd already demonstrated their expertise in working U.S. repertoire in the domestic market so the decision for Motown to go with EMI was undoubtably a smart one at the time. In answer to the individual questions:- At the simplest level who decided what (and when) was released on the Tamla Motown label? This would be decided locally. It's always been accepted that different territories have different systems, different needs and different methods depending on the logistics of each territory, so the label manager would generally make those decisions. Bear in mind that EMI had a big advance to earn back so it was always in their interest to work the catalogue properly. EMI in those days was easily the safest set of hands in the UK (they had the Beatles - the biggest selling band in the world at the time) and their reputation was second to none. Sir Joseph Lockwood and Berry Gordy would have got along just fine since the UK would have been the biggest foreign territory for Motown and very much seen as the springboard to Europe and beyond. Who controlled stuff like label and sleeve design? EMI in consultation with Motown hence Tamla-Motown. In a country the size of the UK which had one of the healthiest record businesses in the world it was a doddle to distribute records in such a small territory and would have made more sense to keep a single label logo rather then several like the U.S. where sometimes it would take months to achieve a national breakout. Also the UK in the swinging 60's led the world in terms of certain expertise in Marketing, Fashion and Music so Berry would have assumed (quite rightly) that EMI knew what they were doing. In fact we were the first territory to take the Motown Sound to our collective bosom, so it made logistical sense to leave the Brits to it. Plus it paid off. I can remember seeing plenty of Motown acts on regular TV in the mid 60's whether they were on Ready Steady Go, the London Palladium or Top Of The Pops. Who designed and paid for other marketing stuff like advertising? EMI. I'm not sure whether this would have been recoupable or part of the general overhead cost. Tony Rounce may have some insight into this. And what was the basic financial arrangement. Did EMI simply pay over a fixed amt per record sold? Big advance at the beginning of each term with royalty accounting that would have run into several millions by the late 60's. Knowing the control that Berry liked to exert it is hard to imagine him handing over some of the "artistic" stuff. Or maybe he just had to trust that EMI knew their own marketplace. Berry would have trusted EMI to a large extent. They were arguably the best record company in the world at that point. Also don't forget that Berry had the foresight to set up Jobete Music (UK) Ltd as an independent Publishing entity in the UK, so he could moniter the record company via the UK Publishing company, so a perfect set-up in many ways. I presume the bulk of the above is correct but if anyone can add anything then please feel free. Ian D

You can almost feel the Spring signalling the end of a particularly vicious Winter and boy does it feel great! So this week's show hopefully reflects that with an overall happy vibe throughout as we do our usual dance through the eras. This week there's an interesting track from Lisa Shaw that slipped beneath the radar from 2008, a few incredibly tasty re-edits and remixes from the likes of Earth, Wind & Fire, Marvin Gaye and Gloria Scott, some under-appreciated 80's cuts, some underplayed 60's 70's Soul cuts and some glorious classics throughout the show culminating with the GLORIOUS Heaven N' Hell Orchestra track from '79 to close proceedings. Something for everyone hopefully! Six Million Steps Presents The Original Mastercuts Show LIVE with Ian Dewhirst between 2.00-4.00pm on Sunday 14th March 2010 on everyone's favourite Soul station www.starpointradio.com. Featuring..... 1st Hour Earth, Wind & Fire - Happy Feeling - Torchsoul Rework Fred Everything feat Lisa Shaw - Here I Am Marvin Gaye - I Want You - Remix Gloria Scott - (A Case Of) Too Much Lovemaking - Larry Sanders Re-Edit Mascara feat Luther Vandross - It's Cool Archie Bell & The Drells - Strategy Terri Wells - You Make It Heaven Cashmere - Inner Feeling Billy Griffin - Understand 2nd Hour Lou Johnson - Always Something There To Remind Me Cissy Houston - I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself Barbara McNair - More Today Than Yesterday Darrell Banks - I've Got The Feeling Sting - Winning Number Darrow Fletcher - It's No Mistake Moses Smith - Keep On Striving Bobby Wilson - Don't Shut Me Out Five Special - Heaven (You Are To Me) James Nelson - Mellow Mellow Me Patti Labelle - It's A New Day - Neil T's Chill Yer Boots Mix Lyfe Jennings - Smile Heaven 'N Hell Orchestra - Whatcha Gonna Do https://www.sixmillionsteps.com/6MS-...4-Starpoint.mp3 Will no doubt see some of you in Prestatyn at the weekend - actually Al's behind the decks next week so I may well ring in with a Prestatyn report (assuming that I can still speak that is)! Toodle pip! Ian D

Double agreed. A perfect instrumental that was designed for heavy all-nighter action! I'm interested in this auction 'cos I do actually think this is a lot rarer then people may think. There weren't that many copies originally and it's one that doesn't seem to crop up that much these days. Sold mine for £120 a couple of years back....... Ian D

It is. Right now anything up to 1960 is considered Public Domain under UK law. They are trying to extend the term to 70 years but at present it's still 50 years. Ian D

And coming up this week another journey through a musical oddysey which takes in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and 00's. Just one thing in common: Soul and tons of it! Yes folks, it's another installment of the Original Mastercuts show with Ian D this Sunday afternoon between 2.00-4.00pm on everyone's favourite Soul station, www.starpointradio.com. I'll be doing my thang and featuring...... Earth, Wind & Fire * Fred Everywhere feat Lisa Shaw * Marvin Gaye * Gloria Scott * Mascara feat Luther Vandross * Archie Bell & The Drells * Terri Wells * Cashmere * Billy Griffin * Lou Johnson * Cissy Houston * Barbara McNair * Darrell Banks * Sting * Darrow Fletcher * Moses Smith * Bobby Wilson * Five Special * James Nelson * Patti Labelle * Lyfe Jennings * Heaven 'N Hell Orchestra Hope you can join me for another Sunday afternoon Soulfest with the friendliest audience on t'internet. Ian D

Does anyone know what this eventually went for? Ian D

Apologies all. I had Bobby Taylor in my head......... Ian D

Not a Detroit label Nige. It was an L.A. label and more focussed on Pop/Rock...... https://www.bsnpubs.com/mgm/sunflower.html Ian D