Ian Dewhirst

and preferably via the docks ay? Ian D

Yeah, someone told me he was still in touch with Richard. He's the kind of guy who can disappear for years and then turn up with handful of ridiculously rare things. I still don't know how he kept turning up with killer records but he always did. I never got Robbie Lawson off him though! Ian D

Yep. It was actually a perfect copy until an ex managed to tread on it in an overflowing record room....... I taped the other side with a piece of brown masking tape to prevent further damage and it actually still played perfectly. No styrene burn at the intro either. I've always thought it was a bloody rare record............ Ian D

It was one of those from the box under your bed! Ian D

Wow. Look at that! It's not often that someone acknowledges a mistake! Well done Soulman. You sir, are a gentleman. Luckily you happened to choose one night that I'm hardly likely to forget which incorporated seeing seeing Pat Brady in the afternoon where I flogged him about £7K worth of stuff, followed by numerous bars, clubs, restaurants and then the Griffin, Gary Field buying a cracked Joe Mathews, more sales and bumping into folk I hadn't seen for years, followed by a rave until 8.00am, Cliff's until 9.00am and then a police cell for most of Sunday, a casino and then a 200 mile trip back to London in the early hours of Monday morning. I king hell b*stard of a weekend that was and one I won't forget in a hurry. And I still don't really know the Gracie Dumas record LOL...... By the way, where is Gary these days? Is he OK? Ian D

Actually I wasn't really talking about oldies in the first instance. I was thinking of some of the prices that I've seen for 'newer' discoveries that are being played at the moment and how much it would cost to put a couple of hundred current biggies together if you were fresh on the scene. So, really we should forget big ticket oldies here (I got somewhat sidetracked by Kev's suggestion earlier). If you had a boxful of records like the Mello Souls and suchlike, how much would that cost you? Could you amass a popular rare soul set of current in-demanders for much less than £30-50K? Ian D

True, true.......and Cantona..... Ian D

Nah, I've known that record since '74 ish. It used to be a last hour @ Blackpool Mecca record in the 70's and I had a copy circa Cleethorpes period but never really played it. Quite possibly it could have been another record but certainly not Betty Lloyd. Incidentally, that was the day I sold a whole heap of great 70's stuff to Pat Brady and the same night I sold my cracked copy of Joe Mathews to Gary (for £175 I think). I remember the night well 'cos I got busted in Chapeltown @ 8.00am on Sunday morning coming out of Cliff's. The cops stopped the car I was in, found some spliff in the back and arrested everyone, saw that I was from London and then found £8K in cash in my hotel room! Took some explaining that I'd merely sold some records.......... Ian D

What makes you think that Pete? There were two known copies of James Fountain at the time - Levine and Curtis's and Colin sold his for £500 a couple of weeks before Cream reissued it. As far as I know, I don't think £500 had been breeched at that point. It was big news at the time. Ian D

I only compiled that list 'cos Kev asked me to old bean. I actually already have 'em all in one form or another. The excercise is how much would it cost to amass a similar collection of OVO at today's prices. For sure things have moved on since LOL. That list is from 36 years ago so if things hadn't moved on it'd be weird. Ian D

I already have 'em all in one form or other Bearsy. The last thing I need is more records mate. I've got over 10K gumming up the house as it is..... Ian D

LOL, OK then. Off the top of my head here's a few:- "You Didn't Say A Word" - Yvonne Baker Parkway "Ain't Nothing You Can Do" - Joe Mathews Kool Kat "I Can't Change" - Lorraine Chandler RCA "Stubborn Heart" - Ernest Mosely La Cindy "Do The Pearl Girl" - Matta Baby Penny "Broadway Cissy" - Rosco & Co Tec "Ton Of Dynamite" - Frankie "Loveman Crocker Turbo "I'm Not Strong Enouh" - The Four Perfections Party Time "If That's What You Wanted" - Frank Beverly & The Butlers Sassy "Let Our Love Grow Higher" - Eula Cooper Super Soul "Too Darn Soulful" - Morris Chestnut Amy "Nothing Can Help You Now" - Lenny Curtis End "I'm Catching On" - Betty Lloyd BSC "Set My Heart At Ease" - Mikky Farrow Karate "Cool Off" - Detroit Executives Pameline "Never Too Young (To Fall In Love)" - The Modern Redcaps Swan "The Spy" - The Guys From UNCLE Swan "Don't You Care Anymore" - Jodi Mathis Capitol "I Really Love You" - The Tomagoes Washpan "So Is The Sun" - World Column Tower "I Travel Alone" - Lou Ragland Amy "Time Will Pass You By" - Tobi Legend Mala "Talkin' About Poor Folk" - Lou Edwards & Today's People Columbia "Take Me Home" - Donna Kng Hot-Line "I'm Com'un Home In The Mor'nun" - Lou Pride Suemi "Thumb A Ride" - Earl Wright Capitol "I Had A Good Time" - Little Eddie Taylor Peacock "Gee Baby" - The Malibus Sure Shot "My Heart Cries For You" - Porgy & The Monarchs Musicor "Call Me Tomorrow" - Major Harris Okeh "Come Back" - Ken Williams Okeh "Stick By Me Baby" - The Salvadores Wise World "That's Why I Love You" - The Professionals Groove City "Send Him Back" - The Pointer Sisters Atlantic "It Really Hurts Me Girl" - The Carstairs Red Coach "Please Give Me One More Chance" - Clyde McPhatter Deram "Lend A Hand" Bobby Hutton ABC Our Love Is In The Pocket" - J.J.Barnes Revilot "Sister Lee" - Sam Ward Groove City "Marble & Iron" - Carl Douglas Buddah "Night Owl" - Booby Paris Cameo "Bari Track" - Doni Burdick Sound Impression "Skiing In The Snow" - The Invitations Dyno Voice "Nothing Can Compare To You" - The Velvet Satins General American "I Never Knew" - Eddie Foster In "Wrong Crowd" - Prince George DPG "Gonna Be A Big Thing" - The Yum Yums ABC "What Good Am I" - Mickie Champion Musette "They're Talking About Me" - Johnny Bragg Elbejay "Love Factory" - Eloise Laws Music Merchant "Help Me" - Al Wilson Wand "You Don't Love Me Anymore" - Johnny Caswell Decca "Baby Don't You Weep" - Edward Hamilton & The Arabians Mary Jane "Don't Bring Me Down" - Rita Dacosta Mohawk "You Don't Mean It" - Towanda Barnes A&M "Manifesto" - James Lewis & The Case Of Tyme Legend "You Hit Me (Right Where It Hurt Me)" - Alice Clark WB "Watch Out Girl" - The Embers MGM "Tears (Nothing But Tears)" - Lee Roye Decca "I Thought You Were Mine" - The Natural Four ABC "Look At Me Now" - Terry Callier Cadet "Something Good's Got A Hold On Me" - Jeanette Williams Back Beat "Being Without You" - Maurice Williams Deesu "Now You've Got The Upper Hand" - Candi Staton Unity "Job Opening Pts 1 & 2" - The Del-Larks Queen City "The Larue" - Lada Edmund Jr Decca "I Hurt On The Other Side" - Jerry Cook Capitol "I'm Spellbound" - Tamiko Jones Golden World "Lord What's Happening To Your People" - Kenny Smith GAR "I Watched You Slowly Slip Away" - Howard Guyton Verve "Don't It Make You Feel Funky" - Joe Hicks AGC "Living a Lie" - The High Keys Verve "Potion Of Love" - The Ambers Smash "Right On" - Al De Lory Capitol "I Just Can't Live My Life" - Linda Jones WB "Rosemary What Happened" - Richard Popcorn Wylie Karen "Not Me Baby" - The Silhouettes Goodway "My Heart's Not In It Anymore" - The Steinways Oliver "Wash & Wear Love" - Lynne Vernado Gator Phew. That'll do for the time being. I've left out stuff that was run of the mill i.e. £2-£10 and I've probably forgotten more than I can remember anyway. I shudder to think what my first 70's collection would be worth now. How's the maths adding up Kev? This is proving to be a painful exercise already LOL........ Ian D

Yeah but it's gonna be difficult not to make comparisons with a scene that's lasted 40 years plus and those comparisons are always going to be influenced by whichever point someone came on the scene. There's no doubt whatsoever that records were easier to find back then that's for sure and similarly there's little doubt that you could pick up great records from a variety of sources very cheaply which meant that it was theoretically possible to pick up a great box of records for relatively little money in the early 70's if you were prepared to dig around and cultivate a number of sources. Just to clear up a misconception though, Global and Soul Bowl were the only regular commercial sources for rare stuff up to the mid 70's and then only if you had a good relationship with Rick Cooper or John Anderson. The majority of records up until then came from disparate sources which would either be shops that stocked U.S. imports (Robinsons, Selectadisc), market stalls (Bostocks, Cheapo Cheapo, Jim Wilson) or the handful of private collector/dealers like Brian Phillips, Julian Bentley, Jack Bollington, Brad from Burnley etc, etc. However, probably a good 50% of any playbox would come from random buys from the boxes of numerous other collectors, generally at different all-nighters and all-dayers. In relative terms compared to today it was much much cheaper. In cash terms I was always hoarding money for the next purchase and there might be an odd purchase that would keep me broke for a couple of weeks but nothing worse than that. Most records were around the £2-£20 mark up to about 1974, then the prices started creeping up the £30-£50 mark. It started going nuts in 1975 IMO, when prices started going stratospheric and creeping up to the £100+ mark. After that, James Fountain then really accelerated the whole thing by establishing a new benchmark @ £500. After that the gloves came off LOL. Another thing that I think changed the price of records hugely was the introduction of Rare Soul price guides which were probably single-handedly responsible for sharing previously little-known information with the U.S. dealers, thus helping close the era of picking up cheap bargains in the U.S. The next things were the internet and e-bay which between 'em, simply spread the information wider and turned the world into record hounds. I definitely agree that it's much more difficult to come up with great cheap finds these days but good luck to all who try! Ian D

Has he? News to me. Mind you, he might have wanted a funkier set...... No complaints from anywhere else to my knowledge...... Ian D

First time I've been accused of firing blanks! Ian D

I dunno Kev. There is a Soul do on in Ibiza at the end of September/beginning of October which looks like fun and there might be the opportunity to do a Northern set since the line-up is pretty varied. https://www.lovesoulibiza.com/ But I'm also doing a film launch there on the Friday: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHTUEHE3kA8 https://www.facebook.com/weekendermovie And a Philly International Re-Edits & Remixes album launch on the Saturday, so will be pretty tied up. It'd be nice to actually play some of those tunes in the sun since most of those tunes seldom see the daylight LOL.... Ian D

Ouch! You don't have to be quite so brutal Stevie! You mis-read me mate. My days of upfront Northern Soul deejaying are long gone and I've really no desire to go back to it. Couldn't afford it these days anyway! It was a brilliant experience to be deejaying back then but I actually left that part of the scene at the right time for me and nothing's really changed my views since. These days I far prefer to bounce around different scenes and have a bit of an overview that I otherwise wouldn't have if I was too enmeshed in any one particular scene. I quite like doing the odd oldies night and turning up at a few events to see how things are going but that's about it these days. That way it's still fun and less of an obsession LOL.... I was just thinking aloud really, partially due to some of the threads on here and wondering whether the money needed to buy records at the upper levels is actually attainable for many people. Luckily I've been out of the big ticket records game for 35 years now (apart from brokering a few deals here and there) so I'm just curious as to how aspiring new DJ's manage to finance their enthusiasm for top records that's all. With difficulty by the sound of it. How's life by the way? Ian D

Believe it or not I've never actually regretted selling any of my collections. I've gone through a few in my time and I just like building 'em up again, which was kinda possible in the 70's, 80's and some of the 90's but a bit of a stretch in the last 15 years or so. I'm just amazed at the prices really and thinking about what a huge financial commitment it must be these days to keep up in the rarified strata of big tune collecting. We go on about inflation and petrol prices all the time but this Northern Soul lark is in a whole different league innit? How's your arse by the way? Ian D

LOL, yeah but an average of, say, 3 or 4 bookings a week @ £150-£200 a pop can soon add up can't it? That's surely the way that most DJ's cover their overheads and record-buying. At least that's how it was back in the day. Mind you, maybe that's the difference between now and then Mace. Back in the day a rare record might cost a week's wages, whereas these days it's more like a month's wages and DJ fees have probably dropped like a stone because everybody's a DJ these days. I take your point about Kenny having a Groundhog day every gig though. I did a Samanthas revival in the 90's with Kenny and there was a long line of people all queuing up to get their photo with the rarest record ever LOL. Can you imagine having to go through that at every single gig? He'd have definitely made his money back quickly if he'd have charged a tenner a photo! Ian D

When I said top flight European gigs I was obviously including the UK but really talking about the UK names that I regularly see advertised at Northern gigs throughout Europe (Germany and Italy mainly) as well as the UK. I doubt very much that they'd be booked if they didn't have boxes of expensive 'to die for' tunes though. You may as well get a local Joe Blow who has a decent box of tunes at a tenth of the cost if that were the case. Far be it from me to argue about rarity and value. I think most of it is nuts personally and that was one of the points of the thread. Also, in my experience there are stacks of DJ's/Collectors out there with good taste but are they necessarily gonna pull in the crowds without some incredibly rare records? Make no mistake, I ONLY go out to have a kicking night LOL. Some of the worst nights I've been to have been where there's zero atmosphere and an empty dancefloor except for a gaggle of chin-strokers admiring impossibly rare records which isn't my idea of fun by any means. Gimme a buzzing club packed to the brim with good people plus some rare tunes and I'm a happy bunny. Long time since I've been to Burnley though. Last time was Burnley Cricket Club in the mid 70's and that was always fun on a Tuesday night! Ian D

You heartless b*stard Pete! How could you be so cruel to your home system.........? Ian D

What do you call 'within the realms of affordability' though Tezza? £1K, £5K, £10K, £50K.......? Also, we're talking top-level pan European gigs here, not the local Miners Welfare Another way to look at it, might be to assess how much you'd need to spend on amassing a box of, say, 200 OVO great records that would work across a variety of top venues, y'know, like if you had to start from scratch. Obviously you could fill a 200 count box with 200 x £10 records, but I guarantee you, that those wouldn't get you through a top venue's door, mainly because I suspect that everyone on Soul Source could do this. In order to mix it with the top guys and supply the necessary pzazz and excitement about your box, I reckon you'd need a minimum of 20-30 very expensive tunes, most of which would set you back £1K to a few grand each, which would end up around £40-50K. I doubt if I could replicate my 1975 box for much less than £50K if I re-bought them all today (certainly not when I see the prices for original Tomangoes, Del-Larks, Joe Mathews, Salvadores, Micky Farrow, Ernest Mosely, Eddie Daniels etc, etc). You'd generally need several 'talking point' records in order to seperate you from every other geezer who has a great collection, in other words, one-offs, impossibly rare stuff of which only a handful of copies exist or decent acetates and none of those would come cheap would they? So I'd say anyone who wanted to make a serious splash, would proabably need to start @ £50K but, more than likely, need to go up £100K plus in order to start attracting the level of audiences that you need at the top level. Kenny Burrell absolutely knew what he was doing when he bought Fr**k W*ls*n for £15K, because having that one record in his box probably got him hundreds of great gigs over the years because of the rarity of the record. He probably recouped the cost after a year or two I would imagine. Ian D

Well I can certainly type better than you Simon. The thing is that the 'baby boomers' from the 50's (who became teenage Northern Soulers in the late 60's and 70's) are all coming up to their 60's now. In fact there'll soon be more over 60's than under 60's, so someone will have to entertain 'em and probably on their patch since older people don't travel so well and generally don't dance their asses off 'til 8.00am. It's the future mate. Who needs kids when your core audience is 65 ay? Ian D

Out of curiosity, how much is Bearsy's arse? And is it in reasonable condition........? Ian D

'DJ Dooberry From Dewsbury' has a certain ring to it dontcha think.........? Good thinking Batman. You've got IT experience haven't you? Do you wanna be my roady? Ian D