Goldsoul

Unfortunately I sold it for £100!

Richard is the main Audio buyer for Morrisons. Soul CDs though are in most supermarkets and I think you'll be seeing lot more.

Record companies are totally focussed on shifting bulk and with the demise of the indie stores the supers will inevitably clean up.

If anyone sees a Gene Chandler Stateside demo among many others, could they contact Weatherfield police station. Much appreciated.

I know you've said "to close" Kev, but you haven't said anything about my repackaging comments. If certain tracks are constantly repackaged with a different cover and very little else, how come you expect to maintain sales figures without new product. We aren't talking about lifes staples here, its a lifestyle choice. Why would people want to keep buying cd's that they already effectively have on an earlier compilation? Because that seems to be the majority of your output. Kent caters to a different market and keeps that market by continually releasing different product. It may be me, but I don't think its rocket science to see that giveaways can't possibly affect turnover to the extent you are claiming.

Rereleasing the same old same old has got to have more effect on your top line than a promoter giving away 100 cd's at his venue, which are unlikely to contain the top 500 sounds anyway. The same cd's being sold on Ebay is a different matter though but thats not what we were originally discussing.

Anyway, Kev, did you get to the Lane for the derby ?

(to close" Kev, but you haven't said anything about my repackaging comments. If certain tracks are constantly repackaged with a different cover and very little else, how come you expect to maintain sales figures without new product. )

Steve,

I only reiterate what I have said continually on this thread. Giving away, copying cd's totally blows away any REAL sales that legitimate company's might try and achieve regardless of packaging.

This forum is the best debater around, but it's vinyl biased, hence there is....NO REAL DEBATE apart from very few who have took part(Ady,Pete,You, Me and a few others). If the thread was about vinyl, say hello to 300 authors at least!

I see where you are coming from about re-packaging, but Steve, you seem to be oblivious to the real losses here to record companies.

I have nothing more to add apart from while Ace, Demon,Expansion etc are busy trying to persuade HMV to carry one of each of their new releases......at least 1,000 cd's will be shunted from bedrooms to Soul nights, Car boots, Weekenders and Web Sites offering 20 picks for a fiver etc etc this weekend alone.

I't's an epidemic that most Soul fans turn a blind eye to, as their passion is VINYL. That's the way it is and I doubt it will change. CD's are looked upon as some Cheap,Free almost offensive little blighters to some.

Quite why Promoters of Soul nights are praised for handing out their own burns at do's is beyond me.

'Anyway, Kev, did you get to the Lane for the derby ?'

No. I'm Wednesday 'til I die as you know, but the new 're-development' worries me. Why take our capacity up above Chelsea without a Middle East bankroll?

Still dreaming of the Premiership and of course......stuffing the Blades!

To close, 20 grand a week plus is lost in cd sales due to the Freebies at Soul nights, Car Boots, Web sites offering 20 tracks for a fiver, Gig sales

etc etc. In my opinion, Kent would not survive in today's market as a stand alone business without Ace's umbrella, that goes for others too.

Virtually every Northern track is available illegally on cd or download.

A friend of mine regularly buys Anniverary discs from one North Yorkshire outfit and he's never been to their gig! He simply waits for the cd

to be advertised on Ebay. Then to be a nice guy he asks if there's anything I need for Radio ie Joseph Webster, The Parliaments and other big hitters.

Vinyl guys are not interested in lost cd sales, that is why the new trend is to drift into bedroom type selling. Less hassle, easy money and most of all no flak from vinyl collectors!

Benji. As I said before, once one vinyl title is even reissued legally there's an inquest by some. The fact is, most Northern Soul folk do not take CDs seriously enough, therefore little is said.

You total illegal Anniversary freebies, Ebay sales, Markets, Gigs, Passing onto mates, choosing tracks from dodgy web sites all adds up to something very significant. Forum mouthpieces pass this over because their passion is vinyl. In fact I know several heavy collectors who casually champion the free illegal cd syndrome. I'm out of puff on this one, suffice to say the 3 company's we speak of are no longer around because there isn't even a small profit to be made.

Kent have the comfort zone of being part of a bigger picture ala Ace Records Ltd. Demon are terrific at offering great packages for small bucks, so that's a positive.

Sadly though, until the mindset adjusts, illegal cd's will

slide by unnoticed. Music to the ears of the small bedroom type operator with his/her £2-500 a week 'supplementary income'

The new players steer away from vinyl due to a potential forum backlash instead opting for a easier life with CDs/Dvds. Smart or what!?

Well I think Telfordsoulboy has hardly done anything majorly wrong... the main culprits are the likes of right track and those that download the

new cd's and covers as they come

out and go flogging them off at the

likes of Kings Hall all-nighters.

Whoa....Can you tell me who copies current CDs and flogs them at the Kings Hall? We certainly have not seen any.

Anyway we have a strict policy of holding offenders hands down while bringing a hammer down on their knuckles.

Comment on boots cd's?.We are back to unauthorised again.Its didn't bother anyone BITD did it,like i said ,when it was nearer to the artists career's.!!When tapes were the thing,and boot vinyl was doing the rounds.

I agree with you about the "new players" among us.

Free cd's putting some out of business - well maybe some of the free cd's aren't so bad after all.Maybe some even filled a void,or tastes at the time.Or maybe some companies ran out of steam and ideas?.1000 cd's a week from venues?.Find that figure hard to believe.Most "promoters" can't be bothered to do it on a regular basis in my limited experience.

'1000 cd's a week from venues?.Find that figure hard to believe.Most "promoters" can't be bothered to do it on a regular basis in my limited experience.'

Kev,

That's because you are unaware of the type of people doing it. Your bag is the Rarer Lifeline type .

As a promoter, I see venues springing up everywhere. It's the Oldies types(and yes that's my customer) that are subjected to the Free CD, Anniversary, DVD Copies etc, simply because they do not have your experience or knowledge.

Seriously, when you get a spare hour, trawl the net and just count up the Boot cd's from venues,Ebay and Web sites. You will be staggered at the epidemic.

Pete S talked about the golden days of the late 90's early Noughties, trust me, the sales have shifted from the high street to 'other areas'

As I said before, if a carver outfit is exposed, they attract a lot of venom from vinyl enthusiasts of which Soul Source has many. CD's are below the radar to most Soul fans and that my friend is music to the ears of

the Ala Carte's of this world.

Kev, below is a review taken from your website re the "101 Northern Anthems" cd you are offering for sale.

Good selection of some old classics

I haven't actually bought this cd because like alot of "Soulies" I already possess a good proportion of them already (most on vinyl!!), but if you are just discovering Northern Soul then this is a good cd to buy, just for tracks such as Elbie Parkers Please keep away from me.

That more honestly sums up why cd's of that ilk aren't selling in great quantities, because the vast majority of tracks have been issued several times before and are simply being repackaged.

The "just discovering NS" comment is justified, but I'd find it hard to believe that any businessman, or woman, would expect to make substantial profits, or simply break even to be totally honest, on "newcomers" to the Soul scene, of which there are pitifully few.

Sorry but I don't think your "free cd" theory holds any water at all.

Steve

Steve......look a little closer....it's not our review but AMAZON's. We are merely agents and drive traffic to them. Amazon charge you- not us.

Totally disagree on the Free cd theory. Soul nights giving away Free cd's, have made up the minds of ordinary punters that buying the real deal is a waste of money plus,I doubt they care anyway.

Kev H is in a minority buying Kent cd's and I wish there are more like him,but the reality is, small Soul nights with their below the radar activities have killed Northern cd sales...along with a few others we mentioned earlier. FACT not FICTION.

Of course option 1 is the best,but are we talking here about choosing one over the other?.

BITD when soul records were purchased as new releases,i entered into a "contract" with some of the money cascading thru the record companies,down to, hopefully, the artist.By purchasing the record my conscience is clear.

Then came along boots and re-issues.Money to be made.Not by me i hasten to add.Now we've got cd's.

Like i said earlier,records purchased,for a 3rd or even 4th time around,(who bothered to chase up that profit?) and put onto a free cd for mates isn't going to put a record company out of business.

The problem is folks trying to make a business out of it.Money to be made.

'The problem is folks trying to make a business out of it.Money to be made'.

Absolutely right.....the web sites that let you choose your own tracks, Ala Carte's,Right Track's, Venues handing over Anniversary and Charity cd's!!

REALITY CHECK.....Boot cd's outweigh vinyl 50 to 1.....any comment on that little item?

'

put onto a free cd for mates isn't going to put a record company out of business'

It has.....say goodbye to Goldmine, Grapevine and Goldsoul.....all confined to cd history due to the above.

The NEW players are rubbing their hands with glee as they are fairly unknown and happy to be so.

Yeah you're right, nowadays, no impact, but when the boom was in full swing 1999-2002 I can see how it would have annoyed the labels.

Digital music changed everything really, I do buy cd's now and again but they are mainly ones I know will have a decent booklet with them like Ace, if there's an album out I'll only usually want one track off it so I just go and find it on the net and download it. You can find just about anything nowadays and you can find it for free 99% of the time so I don't know how the record companies, even the majors, make any money at all.

The 3 options left to the Rare Soul fan when deciding to make CD purchases.

1. Ace/ Kent £10-12 Lovingly compiled, but generally obscure with superb pckaging.

2. Supermarket/HMV box setty types 3 cd's for £5

3. Sit and wait for your local Soul night to offer the 'first 100 get a free cd'

Most go for option 3 then 2 and finally 1.

I doubt you will ever see a small indie release legitimate product again.

I think we have exhausted this one!

But we're talking about 40 year old records Pete.The chances of a record company wanting to make anything on an old track are slim surely.Unless its used on an advert.

I'm talking about the impact free cd's have on the cd sales nowadays.May be 1000 a week(?),but many are given to mates,with a track listing if you're lucky.

Kev,

No they are not slim. Record companies need every genre possible in profit.

Downloading clobbered them big style.

I suspect you are a heavy vinyl guy so CD's are secondary in your thought pattern.

The facts are clear;

1. At least 1,000 Free/Charity cd's given away at smaller Northern nights every week.Some of the idiot promoters giving them away then ue the old 'ovo policy' s some form of 'credential booster' to deflect from their illegal activities.

2. Endless 'Anniversary cd's' sold at venues and Ebay.

3. Sites galore offering '20 tracks for a fiver-you choose' See www.northernsoulmusic.co.uk for starters.

4. Downloads, Car boots, etc etc

My estimate......20 grand a week in lost sales to the majors.

Imagine if 20 thousand quids worth of boot vinyl every week was given away at do's...this thread would probably reach record views. Vinyl collectors SHOUT LOUD, CD fans don't.

And has this applied to everthing put out by Anglo/Goldsoul (or whatever guise has been used)?

Of course not. What a stupid statement. Goldsoul released a few CDs all legitimate. Due to the Ala Carte's, Northernsoulmusic.co.uk and endless charity and free CDs at gigs...the label quit.

Cannot speak for Goldmine but they are out of business. As for Anglo, no idea. Check your facts though.

Any comments on the thread? For example 1,000s of titles available for under a fiver or better still free!

has lil major williams been released legally on a cd? i only have it on a complimentary cd from an event

'complimentary cd from an event' eh....the sole reason the Northern cd business is knackered. It's even worse than Ala Carte!

Mark,

I think this outfit are from Telford. We had to lean on them for distributing a box set called The Northern Soul Top 500! Flattering maybe, but we get calls for it even though we are not in the cd or vinyl business.

Sadly, if you look around various web sites you'll find 'choose 20 tracks for £4' like one site in Lincolnshire and with the amount of 'anniversary and charity' discs knocking around, the Cd scene was murdered a good few years ago.

If you thought carvers and vinyl reissues were bad, the cd burning is way out of control. Think 1,000 illegal cd's a week and you might be near the mark.

Chris is on the show as a mystery guest connection to his former No.1 chart single 'please don't go' by KWS.

Enjoy!

No but I'd like to.....

Divas of Motown. 2 cd set from Universal. Chris Clark, Mable John etc etc

The one I gave away was an advanced promo and due out next month.

 

I am a feature writer at the Manchester Evening News. hoping to do an article about the Official Northern Soul World Dancing Championship at the weekend. | was hoping to contact someone in our circulation area (Greater Manchester and north Cheshire, really) who is a keen dancer, will be competing in Blackpool and can tell me all about  the dedication of the northern soul fraternity, how the scene works today etc. Someone who also has memories of Wigan Casino would be ideal.

 My email is paul.taylor@men-news.co.uk

 

as regards about you two being responsable about all the trouble by golden 101, i think thats a cheap shot by yourself , no one has given any names about weekenders or included any names of a weekender , but if the cap fits, i myself think that your a fine one to talk about underhand things , when a certian lady started calling yours on s, source , she was threatened with legal action, if your going on about the weekender i think you are , then why dont the promoters who run it , defend it, or are you in on the organising on that one too, and its a common practice by the promoters of said weekender to give away passes and accomadation to fill it and i know this as a fact, but thats not what the thread was about so why turn into that or is this just another witchhunt on your behalf ,, thanks kev

Meow!

The "why" is complex I guess. The equity in any brand (and like it or not Out of The Blue is a brand) is best measured in cash value benchmarked either against its competition or or its previous value. If the brand owner doesn't value it why would anyone else. Your door policy is devaluing your efforts IMHO. It makes me think that the night is just some background in a high street pub that could have anyone in it and if its a pub that can give the night away free at the weekend is this the type if Manchester pub I'd want to take my wife into? (I used to love the Beehive on Claremont Road on a Saturday but never took my wife in there) This is the perception it gives. A perception may be right or wrong but it is still a perception.

I suspect if I did go though I'd hear things to make me take notice and I have to wiegh that against the 'free night in a pub' perception which will stop me ever finding out.

I wasn't just refering to the local 'oldies off CD nights' there are some big venues that leave me cold.

This isn't only confined to Soul Nights, a major Weekender is now that reliant on bar sales to keep it afloat, there are as many free passes as you like provided you bring along a bunch of mates who can drink enough ale to sink a battleship to show "Bar sales"! This is all well and good but where are the "True Souls"?

What a cheap

shot from the very two banned from the very weekender they are talking about !

If anybody creates bad politics it's you two!

Ruffin, fundamentally a bad person with a great voice.

A truly wonderful voice who was certainly one sandwich short of a picnic.

I interviewed him in 1988. At Mcdonalds he ordered £90 worth of Cheesburgersf

for 5 of us! Now I know why I put on weight.

Ludie Montgomery(Tammi's sister) is a great friend of ours and she confirmed

the great man's bizarre behaviour.

Yep, that aside.. Listen to You're My Everything as he shares the tortured vocals with Eddie K.

OK, that's strange! Works alright for me.

Perhaps you have to make the changes on both the .co.uk and .com sites? I don't know.

I'm Sebastian by the way, not Benji.

Anyone had the discomfort of receiving emails from 'auction winners' who apparently have not received their goods after 2 days citing 'if it doesn't come tomorrow, we are going on Soul Source to complain'? The record business...you can keep it!

Nige Brown the guest after 8 this Saturday discussing the Torch Reunion on Oct 24

Kev , are you more p*ssed than me or am I missing something ?

Swifty

No but I feel like it now. They obviously used some of the tracks I compiled for the Soul Time series for Sony/ BMG

I knew meeting Bev Callard on holiday would have it's consequences!

Didn't see Norris getting too enthusiastic though!

Fully expecting Ken Barlow to do a back flip any minute!