Goldsoul

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searling spun it ,but ive a tape at wigan with him spinning for guy hennigan in the record bar....gr8 gr8 tune..

And probably the most expensive flop in Dance floor history.

On a side note...Ruby Andrews was at the session in 1966!

Not me as far as I remember, maybe Ian Clark or Tony Rounce who worked there as well.

I do remember buying Jimmy Thomas on Parlophone from Ady at Cheapo along with an unknown Jerry Fuller-Double Life. It ought to have gone straight to Wigan, but somehow I sold it to Ian at the Mecca and surprisingly it went big.

You have to consider at the time, the Mecca's biggest tunes were things like Vicky Sue Robinson's Turn The Beat Around!

Oh yes, the Detroit Executives, Pocorn Wylie and the Perigents as 30p cheapies on one of his lists! Those were the days........

Ian D

I wonder who the DJ was to initially play.......

It Really Hurts Me Girl, If That's What You Wanted, Seven Day Lover,Cashing In, Jodi Mathis, Eula Cooper,

Bill Brandon/Lorraine Johnson, Dushons, Admirations, Lee David, Lynn Randell, Susan Barrett, Tony Clarke, Gil Scott Heron, Eloise Laws, Anderson Brothers, Frankie Crocker?

Obviously some talent in discovering that little lot.

Dead right Pete. Bob Slater and Jack Wardle - swapped the EP for cash and a pile of emi discs.

Interesting Ian mentions 'Send Him Back' - Jack still insists he played it to Ian - who declined it then later turned up with a copy

Bob was also credited by Richard Seerling on the 'After Hours' cd with giving him the UK issue of Cajun Heart. I feel sure one or two of you on here will have a 45 with Bob's name on

Mike

Jack of course went onto have a career as a Whitby ticket distributor!

Larry Clinton.

John Manship to Soul Sam - Soul Sam to Richard Searling

L.C. was found in Orlando, Fla 1976 in the front room of pot-smoking kitten thrower; i believe the full story is featured in Neil Rushton's new book.

Don Gardner.

John Anderson to John Manship for £3.00 John Manship then sold it to Ian Levine for £3.00 at the Ritz circa1976.

the above deal, is almost legendary as he also bought Inspirations - Breakthrough, Utopias - LaSalle the 3 cost him £26.00 in

total i think he beat me down to £25

Sorry Golden 101,  The Inspirations - Breakthrough came from Neil to me.. and then to Levine. Although I did do a few deals with Colin, but I think Neil sold me it, Neil will know best.

Ian categorically states he discovered it in 1973. Battle it out on Twitter!

"The Flasher" perchance......?

Ouch! Yep and a real horror.. Falbala- Magic Band. Anybody remember that piece of misery?

Ian D

Here's a few to chew on:

inspirations- No one else can take your place. Neil Rushton to Colin Curtis

Don Gardner correction- Brad to Colin Curtis

other Brad to Colin Curtis finds Del Larks, Freddie Chavez,

Silhouettes.

A few from me...... Willie Hutch(Dunhill), Sandra Philips(Broadway), Seven Souls plus most of the Canadian schlock Todays People, Debbie Fleming, Black and Ward etc. Probably tons more, some I want to forget!

OK SO WHAT IDIOTS DISCOVERD DON GARDNER AND LARRY CLINTON THEN LOL

Larry Clinton. John Anderson to Richard Searling. Don Gardner by Ian Levine who never played it in 1975 at the Mecca due to the Disco influx.

OK SO WHAT IDIOTS DISCOVERD DON GARDNER AND LARRY CLINTON THEN LOL

John had the finance and a great contact in Bernie Binnick, a former label owner in Philadelphia(BB Records- The Showmen etc). A great link to John Lamont's House of Sounds in Upper Darby, PA

Bernie generally lined up the hits with John flying in to scoop em up.

I would say these three are gonna take some beating !!

Lovely isn't it! I think this was the photo shot for Pye Disco Demand by Dave McAleer in the Summer of 1974.

Russ has the Gloria Barnes album that featured You Dont Mean It. I think the A&M single of Towanda had not been discovered at the time.

Richard's holding Free's Taking It Away. Ironically a failed spin for him. As for me, I have no idea what the heck the 45 is. Could be Ernie Marbray or George Juke Byrd, both being championed by yours truly...to no avail.

Rumours of a clutched Javells acetate were seriously distorted!

Kev,

I bet you was happy with that price back then.

Kev

I did not give it a second thought. The disc sounded boring and stale with no real danceability.

I love it today though.

Funny thing is, I thought The Cashmeres on Hem at £70 was about right in 1978. I let that go to Richard Searling, while selling Bobby Kline for £3 and a certain record on Triode for £30. Hence I am no record dealer today!

Unfortunately I sold it for £100!

Richard is the main Audio buyer for Morrisons. Soul CDs though are in most supermarkets and I think you'll be seeing lot more.

Record companies are totally focussed on shifting bulk and with the demise of the indie stores the supers will inevitably clean up.

If anyone sees a Gene Chandler Stateside demo among many others, could they contact Weatherfield police station. Much appreciated.

I know you've said "to close" Kev, but you haven't said anything about my repackaging comments. If certain tracks are constantly repackaged with a different cover and very little else, how come you expect to maintain sales figures without new product. We aren't talking about lifes staples here, its a lifestyle choice. Why would people want to keep buying cd's that they already effectively have on an earlier compilation? Because that seems to be the majority of your output. Kent caters to a different market and keeps that market by continually releasing different product. It may be me, but I don't think its rocket science to see that giveaways can't possibly affect turnover to the extent you are claiming.

Rereleasing the same old same old has got to have more effect on your top line than a promoter giving away 100 cd's at his venue, which are unlikely to contain the top 500 sounds anyway. The same cd's being sold on Ebay is a different matter though but thats not what we were originally discussing.

Anyway, Kev, did you get to the Lane for the derby ?

(to close" Kev, but you haven't said anything about my repackaging comments. If certain tracks are constantly repackaged with a different cover and very little else, how come you expect to maintain sales figures without new product. )

Steve,

I only reiterate what I have said continually on this thread. Giving away, copying cd's totally blows away any REAL sales that legitimate company's might try and achieve regardless of packaging.

This forum is the best debater around, but it's vinyl biased, hence there is....NO REAL DEBATE apart from very few who have took part(Ady,Pete,You, Me and a few others). If the thread was about vinyl, say hello to 300 authors at least!

I see where you are coming from about re-packaging, but Steve, you seem to be oblivious to the real losses here to record companies.

I have nothing more to add apart from while Ace, Demon,Expansion etc are busy trying to persuade HMV to carry one of each of their new releases......at least 1,000 cd's will be shunted from bedrooms to Soul nights, Car boots, Weekenders and Web Sites offering 20 picks for a fiver etc etc this weekend alone.

I't's an epidemic that most Soul fans turn a blind eye to, as their passion is VINYL. That's the way it is and I doubt it will change. CD's are looked upon as some Cheap,Free almost offensive little blighters to some.

Quite why Promoters of Soul nights are praised for handing out their own burns at do's is beyond me.

'Anyway, Kev, did you get to the Lane for the derby ?'

No. I'm Wednesday 'til I die as you know, but the new 're-development' worries me. Why take our capacity up above Chelsea without a Middle East bankroll?

Still dreaming of the Premiership and of course......stuffing the Blades!

To close, 20 grand a week plus is lost in cd sales due to the Freebies at Soul nights, Car Boots, Web sites offering 20 tracks for a fiver, Gig sales

etc etc. In my opinion, Kent would not survive in today's market as a stand alone business without Ace's umbrella, that goes for others too.

Virtually every Northern track is available illegally on cd or download.

A friend of mine regularly buys Anniverary discs from one North Yorkshire outfit and he's never been to their gig! He simply waits for the cd

to be advertised on Ebay. Then to be a nice guy he asks if there's anything I need for Radio ie Joseph Webster, The Parliaments and other big hitters.

Vinyl guys are not interested in lost cd sales, that is why the new trend is to drift into bedroom type selling. Less hassle, easy money and most of all no flak from vinyl collectors!

Benji. As I said before, once one vinyl title is even reissued legally there's an inquest by some. The fact is, most Northern Soul folk do not take CDs seriously enough, therefore little is said.

You total illegal Anniversary freebies, Ebay sales, Markets, Gigs, Passing onto mates, choosing tracks from dodgy web sites all adds up to something very significant. Forum mouthpieces pass this over because their passion is vinyl. In fact I know several heavy collectors who casually champion the free illegal cd syndrome. I'm out of puff on this one, suffice to say the 3 company's we speak of are no longer around because there isn't even a small profit to be made.

Kent have the comfort zone of being part of a bigger picture ala Ace Records Ltd. Demon are terrific at offering great packages for small bucks, so that's a positive.

Sadly though, until the mindset adjusts, illegal cd's will

slide by unnoticed. Music to the ears of the small bedroom type operator with his/her £2-500 a week 'supplementary income'

The new players steer away from vinyl due to a potential forum backlash instead opting for a easier life with CDs/Dvds. Smart or what!?

Well I think Telfordsoulboy has hardly done anything majorly wrong... the main culprits are the likes of right track and those that download the

new cd's and covers as they come

out and go flogging them off at the

likes of Kings Hall all-nighters.

Whoa....Can you tell me who copies current CDs and flogs them at the Kings Hall? We certainly have not seen any.

Anyway we have a strict policy of holding offenders hands down while bringing a hammer down on their knuckles.

Comment on boots cd's?.We are back to unauthorised again.Its didn't bother anyone BITD did it,like i said ,when it was nearer to the artists career's.!!When tapes were the thing,and boot vinyl was doing the rounds.

I agree with you about the "new players" among us.

Free cd's putting some out of business - well maybe some of the free cd's aren't so bad after all.Maybe some even filled a void,or tastes at the time.Or maybe some companies ran out of steam and ideas?.1000 cd's a week from venues?.Find that figure hard to believe.Most "promoters" can't be bothered to do it on a regular basis in my limited experience.

'1000 cd's a week from venues?.Find that figure hard to believe.Most "promoters" can't be bothered to do it on a regular basis in my limited experience.'

Kev,

That's because you are unaware of the type of people doing it. Your bag is the Rarer Lifeline type .

As a promoter, I see venues springing up everywhere. It's the Oldies types(and yes that's my customer) that are subjected to the Free CD, Anniversary, DVD Copies etc, simply because they do not have your experience or knowledge.

Seriously, when you get a spare hour, trawl the net and just count up the Boot cd's from venues,Ebay and Web sites. You will be staggered at the epidemic.

Pete S talked about the golden days of the late 90's early Noughties, trust me, the sales have shifted from the high street to 'other areas'

As I said before, if a carver outfit is exposed, they attract a lot of venom from vinyl enthusiasts of which Soul Source has many. CD's are below the radar to most Soul fans and that my friend is music to the ears of

the Ala Carte's of this world.

Kev, below is a review taken from your website re the "101 Northern Anthems" cd you are offering for sale.

Good selection of some old classics

I haven't actually bought this cd because like alot of "Soulies" I already possess a good proportion of them already (most on vinyl!!), but if you are just discovering Northern Soul then this is a good cd to buy, just for tracks such as Elbie Parkers Please keep away from me.

That more honestly sums up why cd's of that ilk aren't selling in great quantities, because the vast majority of tracks have been issued several times before and are simply being repackaged.

The "just discovering NS" comment is justified, but I'd find it hard to believe that any businessman, or woman, would expect to make substantial profits, or simply break even to be totally honest, on "newcomers" to the Soul scene, of which there are pitifully few.

Sorry but I don't think your "free cd" theory holds any water at all.

Steve

Steve......look a little closer....it's not our review but AMAZON's. We are merely agents and drive traffic to them. Amazon charge you- not us.

Totally disagree on the Free cd theory. Soul nights giving away Free cd's, have made up the minds of ordinary punters that buying the real deal is a waste of money plus,I doubt they care anyway.

Kev H is in a minority buying Kent cd's and I wish there are more like him,but the reality is, small Soul nights with their below the radar activities have killed Northern cd sales...along with a few others we mentioned earlier. FACT not FICTION.

Of course option 1 is the best,but are we talking here about choosing one over the other?.

BITD when soul records were purchased as new releases,i entered into a "contract" with some of the money cascading thru the record companies,down to, hopefully, the artist.By purchasing the record my conscience is clear.

Then came along boots and re-issues.Money to be made.Not by me i hasten to add.Now we've got cd's.

Like i said earlier,records purchased,for a 3rd or even 4th time around,(who bothered to chase up that profit?) and put onto a free cd for mates isn't going to put a record company out of business.

The problem is folks trying to make a business out of it.Money to be made.

'The problem is folks trying to make a business out of it.Money to be made'.

Absolutely right.....the web sites that let you choose your own tracks, Ala Carte's,Right Track's, Venues handing over Anniversary and Charity cd's!!

REALITY CHECK.....Boot cd's outweigh vinyl 50 to 1.....any comment on that little item?

'

put onto a free cd for mates isn't going to put a record company out of business'

It has.....say goodbye to Goldmine, Grapevine and Goldsoul.....all confined to cd history due to the above.

The NEW players are rubbing their hands with glee as they are fairly unknown and happy to be so.

Yeah you're right, nowadays, no impact, but when the boom was in full swing 1999-2002 I can see how it would have annoyed the labels.

Digital music changed everything really, I do buy cd's now and again but they are mainly ones I know will have a decent booklet with them like Ace, if there's an album out I'll only usually want one track off it so I just go and find it on the net and download it. You can find just about anything nowadays and you can find it for free 99% of the time so I don't know how the record companies, even the majors, make any money at all.

The 3 options left to the Rare Soul fan when deciding to make CD purchases.

1. Ace/ Kent £10-12 Lovingly compiled, but generally obscure with superb pckaging.

2. Supermarket/HMV box setty types 3 cd's for £5

3. Sit and wait for your local Soul night to offer the 'first 100 get a free cd'

Most go for option 3 then 2 and finally 1.

I doubt you will ever see a small indie release legitimate product again.

I think we have exhausted this one!

But we're talking about 40 year old records Pete.The chances of a record company wanting to make anything on an old track are slim surely.Unless its used on an advert.

I'm talking about the impact free cd's have on the cd sales nowadays.May be 1000 a week(?),but many are given to mates,with a track listing if you're lucky.

Kev,

No they are not slim. Record companies need every genre possible in profit.

Downloading clobbered them big style.

I suspect you are a heavy vinyl guy so CD's are secondary in your thought pattern.

The facts are clear;

1. At least 1,000 Free/Charity cd's given away at smaller Northern nights every week.Some of the idiot promoters giving them away then ue the old 'ovo policy' s some form of 'credential booster' to deflect from their illegal activities.

2. Endless 'Anniversary cd's' sold at venues and Ebay.

3. Sites galore offering '20 tracks for a fiver-you choose' See www.northernsoulmusic.co.uk for starters.

4. Downloads, Car boots, etc etc

My estimate......20 grand a week in lost sales to the majors.

Imagine if 20 thousand quids worth of boot vinyl every week was given away at do's...this thread would probably reach record views. Vinyl collectors SHOUT LOUD, CD fans don't.

And has this applied to everthing put out by Anglo/Goldsoul (or whatever guise has been used)?

Of course not. What a stupid statement. Goldsoul released a few CDs all legitimate. Due to the Ala Carte's, Northernsoulmusic.co.uk and endless charity and free CDs at gigs...the label quit.

Cannot speak for Goldmine but they are out of business. As for Anglo, no idea. Check your facts though.

Any comments on the thread? For example 1,000s of titles available for under a fiver or better still free!