Sweeney

GEMM was a fantastic resource for rare soul (and indeed music in general) a few years ago. It has become less effective in the last 18 months or so because of its popularity and the fact that bigger dealers have an active presence on there. I managed to get some fantastic bargains about 3-4 years ago including a Brown Sugar on Capitol for $5. (the seller even profusely apologized for charging more in postage than the record was worth!) I guess people are more clued up in general to the value of rare soul records.

It'll certainly be one to remember, but sadly, I fear for the wrong reasons. I'm lucky enough to be married to someone who sees my love of rare soul as an integral part of who I am, and not as a box of records that is there to pay for transient 'luxuries'. Having the money will be no substitute for not having the records and the memories. Still, your choice. Good Luck.

In that case might I suggest the dedicated "Wants" section of this esteemed forum if you're looking to procure said item? Posting it in the more general "Look at Your Box" section seems to arouse the attention of the "Back in the Day" crowd, where every record was two and six, and you'd still have enough left over for a packet of Strand and a Barm Cake.

I'm thinking of covering-up "Silver Dream Machine" and spinning it at more 'progressive' nights. As dealers say "So right for now"! I'll get my racing leathers. (and frizzy perm) .

I'm always amused by this type of topic. It's on a par with the "did you see what ??? went for on Manship's Auction? They must be mental etc. etc." posts that should be boring us all rigid by now. We buy records in a scene where values are essentially meaningless and frequently overhyped. None of the record we buy are actually "worth" what we pay for them in reality. It's mostly a bizarre oneupmanship exercise. We feel better about paying more for records than we should. This is the essence of the Rare Soul scene, rightly or wrongly (I personally think wrongly). Look at the Vanguards Good Times, Bad Times. How many of you brave souls would have given Rod Dearlove £25 for the copies he had for ages, when it was an obscure oddity? Many are happier buying one now for Four figures now it's been hammered to death. Things are only worth what people are willing to pay for them. If a constant stream of people are willing to pay £2-300 for this record (or any other) then it's true to say that that's its value. Because it was a £25 record 10 years ago (when I bought mine) it doesn't necessarily mean that this should still be the case. If you had a copy of this would you sell it for what YOU think it should be worth? I doubt it. The last few copies I've seen for sale on E-Bay have all gone for well over £200. Some dealers are listing it for more, so I guess it really is selling (again and again) for that amount. Dealers are (mostly) realistic, if mercenary. If they are aware that a particular record is popular they'll cane it for all it's worth, because these days you never know when you'll see a copy of the thing again for less. Very few records I've bought in the last 10 or so years are actually worth less than the purchase price. Maybe the Rare Soul Scene should be nationalised with a maximum price of £5 (linked to inflation) for all 45s. THAT would put the cat amongst the pigeons! .

Chalky, I think broadly speaking we're in agreement on a number of things. I agree that the scene continues to exist due partly to the efforts of the few people who've put the time and effort into finding new material. This is true of any 'scene', or indeed any profession. We all know the people who push boundaries and challenge perceptions on the Rare Soul scene - those who take records that cost them a few dollars and turn them into big sounds. If they choose to disguise the identity of that sound, then fair enough - that's their right, I guess. It just struck me as being slightly perverse that a record that quite a lot of DJs have, (in relative terms) and even more know the true identity of, is still covered-up, even when it has filtered down to the second or even third level of the Rare Soul food chain. I think it's a cover-up for cover-ups sake, rather than to protect the integrity of the original innovator's efforts. I similarly take issue with those of the seemingly bottomless pocket variety who can buy any of those big sounds with a phone call - those that can build up a small but phenomenally expensive collection of 'must-have' sounds without having to put in the effort and readily dispose of the records when they're considered no longer fashionable. I thought it hilarious that the Four Vandals "scandal" (as I've heard it described) caught a few out, probably because they've never needed to exercise the depth of knowledge or attention to detail that the innovators have. Oh well, it's only Northern Soul, but I like it!

It's certainly easier to "find" records without getting off your arse if you're willing to pay 3k for them! As for "exclusivity", If at least 4 or 5 DJs are spinning this covered-up, it's hardly an exclusive as I understand the term.

It's in the "nice, but nothing special" category IMHO. I agree that the 'cover up' status afforded to it undoubtedly adds to its appeal (and indeed, to any cover up). I'm amazed that in 2005 the scene still perpetuates such a bizarre and arcane practice as the cover-up. Is there a real reason for it? or is its continuation purely for nostalgia purposes?

Was just looking through some Ebay finished auctions and came across this: Marvin Gaye - Love Starved Heart Surely this is a £10ish item? What must the limited press Tamla Promo be worth in the light of this? Has the world gone mad etc. etc? .

I subscribed to Soul Galore too - the story about The Jades - I'm Where It's At was worthy of the price of admission alone. I still have Issues 1-9 (how many were there in total?) and refer to them constantly. I was just sad that they stopped and am saddened to think that Dave went through such challenging times that prevented him from producing more issues of such a brilliant magazine. In the pre-chatroom era, it was a very valuable resource for finding new sounds and learning more about the folklore surrounding the soul scene. I for one would welcome Mr McCadden's continued input on this site.

PHYLLIS Hyman - Baby I'm Gonna Love You - Regularly spun at the underappreciated George Jackson! nights. A very beautiful and special record. When you can buy records like this for less than £20 why does this scene tend to revolve around moronic records costing 10 to 100+ times this amount? Time to re-appraise surely?

In the words of Thomas Jefferson: "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock" I came to the scene Post-Wigan, in the bad old days of the early to mid 80s, when the scene was on its uppers/"dying on it's arse", for want of a better term. My nominees are those that made a difference and stuck their neck(s) out, for no real reason other than their love of the music and I believe they truly moved things forward and contributed immeasurably to the scene we bitch about today. These nominees might be a little London-centric, however - but it's a subjective thing anyway, so what the hell! Dave Thorley Ian Clarke Pete Lawson Mr A Croasdell Randy Cozens We're never going to agree on a top ten. Surely out and out record dealers have no place - as they merely reflect opinion rather than inform it?

Brett, I guess many people share your pain. The Rare Soul Scene alone has a fascinating oral history (to us, anyway), and I hope one day someone will be able to do it full justice. Black American Music has an even more fascinating story, and I feel that Soul Deep isn't a bad attempt to put the period it deals with into a context that most people could digest as entertainment without being bored rigid about matrix numbers and the like. As an essentially underground scene, I guess it's open to misinterpretation at best, to downright ridicule at worst. Even after all these years mention Northern Soul and it's a reasonable bet that (non-scene) people still think of Wigan's Chosen Few, or more recently the dreaded "Northern Soul Patrol". The commercial realities of the type of project you propose would make it unlikely unless it could "cross over" to the mainstream. A good example of this was the Dave Godin CDs that Kent released. A very credible product which got taken up by general music fans as a result of its' exposure in the media (The Guardian if I recall). I wonder if a lot of the essence of this scene is its mysterious, nay exclusive nature, (coupled with the magnificent music of course!) and any attempt to explain it will destroy that very essence. To suggest is to create - to describe is to destroy as they say!

With respect, this programme isn't really aimed at the hardcore fans of Rare Soul. It's aimed at the Observer Music Monthly demographic. It's a pretty good effort considering the limitations on archive material etc. that the producers must have had to put up with. Could a Rare Soul version of such a programme ever be made? I'd be surprised if it could. Scene politics would make it very unlikely, let alone the extremely specialist nature of the subject being deemed commercial enough to get an airing on even a channel such as BBC4. Seeing as TV is a visual medium, how would you fill the time, without artist footage, or even artist interviews? it's a scene that's so esoteric and based in abject failure that there's not much visual that ever got recorded to support a TV Series. Let's not forget that most attempts there has been to represent the Rare Soul scene in media has been mostly met with derision, suspicion or indifference by the "Hardcore fans". You get a lot of people telling you what's wrong with it, but not many willing to put their money where their mouth is and make something better. Look at the grief Levine got for SWONS, for example.

Brett, Greg Tormo wrote this, tells you everything you might need to know (link below) The Lovers Greg Tormo Article I've got the Lovers on Phillips and the Emotions on Vardan and they are indeed the same record.

Dan - I feel your pain (but not so deeply that I'd sell you mine!) Hope you find a replacement soon.

I'll admit to loving Don't Pity Me - Joanie Sommers even though every fibre of my being tells me it's wrong to.

Dear Denis and Sophia This is possibly the most bizarre and ridiculous post I've seen on this forum, and believe me, I've seen most of them. Please do me a favour and ban me from any further events you have planned. Thanks

"It is a very short step from targeting and ridiculing accents and mannerisms to outright prejudice related to race,colour and gender. We hope that other event organisers will be on the look out for the undesirables who are attempting to become part of the Northern Soul Scene in the UK." Hmm... I'm not really one to be critical about others posts, but I feel compelled to respond to this. Thank you for being the (self-appointed) moral guardians protecting us from all the "undesirables" trying to infiltrate the Rare Soul Scene in the UK. For what end exactly? What is their agenda? How will we know them? Are any of us safe? I think you do internet forums such as this a disservice, just look at the names on this forum - hardly the "big phantom record collections, big mouths, very little experince of the Northern Soul Scene, and absolutely no respect for anything or anybody" of which you speak. More a collection of friendly individuals willing to pass on their knowledge and love of the scene to others. BTW an internet forum probably isn't the best place to slag off internet forums. Is this really about Keith The T-Shirt man, or about Vic G's view of your night? Has anyone on this forum in particular, and the scene in general NOT expressed displeasure at one or other aspect of a night? The music policy, the cost of drinks, the toilets etc? At the end of the day, if you pay your hard-earned, you have a right to express your views - rightly or wrongly. If you take that money as a promoter, you've got to be prepared to accept that not everyone will be happy with your promotion. If venues/promoters banned everyone who was critical of their operation, there wouldn't be venues. In my experience good promoters learn from what people have to say, rather than adopting an "it's my ball and you can't play" attitude. As for DJs playing CDs...

It's just a very beautiful and special record - I never tire of hearing it.

What is the point of this release? It's shameless recycling of the same old rubbish. Most (if not all) the material has been used on previous compilations by the SAME company. I'm staggered by the paucity of imagination such a product displays. Are there that few Northern Soul records? I'm surprised that a big name DJ would allow his name to be used to front such tired old doggerel. It frustrates me to think that this will probably sell pretty well. The Strange World of Northern Soul indeed!

Sorry, couldn't find an "ironic" or "sarcastic" Smiley to go with that phrase. Who is this John of which you speak?

As a result of recent threads discussing the likes of George Lemons, Chapter 5 etc. I've been moved to start a thread. We've all experienced it... Been at a night and heard a sound introduced as a one-off / super rarity / acetate only / whatever. Record starts up, Only for you to think "You've been had mate, that's one of the worst things I've ever heard!" Which records, in the board's esteemed opinion, fall into the category of Super-rare, Super-expensive and Super-rubbish. Don't be afraid to voice your choice! There are no wrong answers!

Maybe it's time for a new thread - The Emperor's New Clothes - A Top Ten Super Rare Soul Sounds that are in fact overrated rubbish - What the hell - I'm going to start one! Should be interesting to see the fur fly!

Chalky - that's a cynical view Surely people on the scene buy records for quality reasons rather than their rarity. I'm amazed to hear that this may not always be the case! I think I've heard it all now - Detroit, Chicago, Memphis, New York, Cumbria! Keep it real!