Barry

I think the short answer is - "Don't shoot the messenger".

I have occasionally posted this about the period in Wigan's history when the attendance was that poor that only M's was opened - hard to believe - but true - it was an odd time, on the back of never having experienced a Wigan that wasn't the big-time affair I was expecting....but none the less rewarding. Which shows you what a truly stippled period Wigan's last two years held. None the worse for the real people who attended for the same reason they spent their train/bus-fare on - that music. As an aside, I was booked last minute for an awfully under attended club last week and the resident said (almost in apology), "It's awful when there's so few in isn't it?" to which my reply was "I'm here, you're here, the music's right - who gives a f***!" I know that sounds terribly self-righteous and a bit bleeding heart but I meant it. Right, I'm about to go off on one, so I'll leave it.

We all know what true 'Soul Heaven' is, what we wish we were, don't we? It is obvious that all our yester-years were spent listening to an elite group of focused men, seeking out a sound that, at any given time, was craved for by an ever-hungry dancefloor - we are at present, no matter who you are and what form of earlier black music you get off on, living the learning curve that we trusted these pioneers to give us. We all wish we were in a position to be a Searling or a Sam or a Butch - but we're not, life isn't like that. At what point though did it become de rigeur for a supposed Soulie to knock a bloke for playing a quality NS track that he hasn't discovered? Playing soul music that someone has opened your ears to is real love mate - real love - respect....and understanding for a singularly unique music, it's blacksmiths, and for a scene that they begat. This scene was in it's infancy I believe even when it was at it's height (Searling @ Wigan) - simply obvious for the fact that quality soul/r&b productions have took 'til now to get the attention they deserve. It should have been easier bitd, more tracks to break etc - in reality it wasn't - there's always the floor to please and that is the bottom line - Soulies were responsible for every supposedly poor record that got played on this scene.....jocks at the time competed for new biggies yes - but the buck stops with the dancers/us/me/you - the Soulie set the bar - so don't knock the jock, he was only ever trying to give you something new/keep you happy on the back of the signals you, the dancefloor, gave him. Big job really. Respect them and don't give your inadequacies away by thinking that only names and name dj's have made this scene what it is, us nobodies formed it with nowt but our feet. Back to my original point, all I'm saying is, not everyone is positioned to be a player, a pioneer, a legend but thousands of us have kept this alive, more out of positive thought than negative. Easy. Not taking away from the NS pioneers in any way, we are here because of them - period.

An enjoyable and empassioned thread. To the people that have spent their valuable All-Nighter time waiting for Joe 90 to be played and then been that elated you were then able to instantly forget the other 7hrs 58 mins of a night you should have been able to have good memories of....good luck! There are positive people that have been lucky enough to enjoy this music and it's venues....and then there's yourselves he he, shame. Two records that I have seen mentioned on this thread I must pass comment on - Leon Thomas' 'L-O-V-E that I tried for ages to find thinking it's hook-line was 'Elooo-wicki' (balls) and Roger K's - 'Give Me The Love' - which, from it's killer dramatic clash-cymbal/bass-line opening (the place seemed to stand still for me when it came on) to it's end was a truly burnt in the memory Wigan moment. I salute you.

Aw, don't make me feel even worse Cunnie - I didn't want to add to the fracas, just offer my usual steady view.

Cracking list this time fella's - I think I may have left a slightly garbled message for you earlier, I'll re-do it when I've had some sleep ay?

Bugger mate, I missed it, locked out - a lot to get me teeth in too, hey ho, that's what you get for TK-Maxxing it with the missus. Apologies for the random post folks, there is a reason.

In my mind Garry, it's an odd thing for people to knock Wigan, especially it's swan-song years, especially if you attended - and if you have (especially if you didn't attend a venue that so obviously wrote the rules, set the pace and still hasn't been bettered in my eyes), you need to take a long hard look at yourself and where your up to.

Just to pick up on the 'punk' thing, there was great deal of that kind of lad attended in the last couple pf years, about four 'punks' from Warrington used to travel up on the 11.15pm 604 bus regularly. A similar ethic attraction I think, always very amiable - and trolleyed. I have to keep them distant from that horrible punk club and it's members, Trux was it?, near the train station, that we used to get legged off regularly.

The US 12" demo is an edited version I recall, maybe wrong Always be a Rotherham sound for me. Written by August Darnell - Kid Creole.

The track I posted is what Quentin is at heart about, you would know that if you had followed his productions - the vocal arrangements he does, no doubt he enjoys, but are mainly aimed at earning a coin. At no point did I say that I thought this track should be played at a Soul all nighter btw. I set questions like this thread opener simply to gauge where the general Soulie is up to regards black music, as that is all this is - a black mans outpouring - maybe too much for some but nothing more than black Americans have done for years. For the people that reply with a certain venomous sincerity, you don't shake me as I know where I am and I'm happy with that. There seems to be a general train of thought that if you listen to anything but 'safe' music on here that detracts from your Soulful credentials. Don't be silly. Black music is a feeling, always has been, if you haven't kept up with it's movements then I can expect nothing less than some of the above replies. I'm not stupid, nor any less a Soul lover for posing questions to what I thought would be interested parties - please stop taking petty pot-shots at me and my questions on what you obviously see as easy-meat questions. I take it this question would have been acceptable if I posted it in the 'Freebasing' section, as to some it has nothing to do with Soul music? See it for what it is, an innocent bloody question asking for feed-back - if it's not for you fair enough but don't get all het up. I'm here loving black music just like you. People always seem to confuse the 90's Club-House scene (Sasha, Hacienda, the late Cream era etc) with what became Soulful House (four to the floor 'House' music that is deemed acceptable on this scene) - I feel silly saying it as it so obvious but wtf did that time ever have to do with the black music scene? I'll tell you what. Nowt. I've posted decent nouveau US tracks on here and had responses to them such as 'Pill Music', as a sensible reply ??? - then I read posts from supposed Soulies quoting nonsense posts about the 90's club scene that don't get any flak. There was white European trash and there was relevant black music played in the 90's, I played the latter and I think I still do - if you don't see it, then that's fine but don't blow a gasket, just reply in an adult manner. I've not got the hump btw, I've had a cracking night but I can see that I'm going to have to go through this thread with a fine tooth-comb as when a thread get like this it seems that my original post gets a little warped along the way. Arse.

I can't picture the moment I would try to curry favour with my selected group by saying owt like that. Could I paltrify (Get me) myself at any point by saying 'All the tossers from the Oldies thread are asleep!'? Nah.. While I'm at it Mossy, you shouldn't take it to heart as much as it seems you do - it's just people's views mate, nowt else - and when you bite, no matter how you wish to cover it, you lose.

Thanks for the reply Chris, it's hard work being up at this time waiting for some input ha ha, thanks for yours. It does mate, yes, people skirt boots in general, when they talk about them on message boards anyhow - on the whole though they get poor press, there's a lot more skull-duggery that has gone on that hurts the scene and it's supposed heroes in reality.

https://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oBQDChSclV8 Once again me and the wife are up late chewing the fat and she being a tad younger than myself, having being bombarded by Northern, 70's and Funk stuff for years brought about a discussion that ended with this track surfacing. It's a few years old now and possibly a passe track on the current House scene, but I feel it's instrumentation, use of keyboards etc qualify it (in our mind anyhow) for an instrumental that lives up to the values of classic NS instrumentals. What say you. OHS brought this fella into the UK before he broke big, £1500 and flights at the time, he's the best side of 10k nowadays. He didn't want to go home after his soiree and was so pleased with the smack-heads in The Bears Paw in Frodsham ha ha. Good lad. Anyway, is this track too far down the pan for the average Soulie to cope with?

There does seem to be some heavy prejudice toward people that may dare to play a boot - odd really, when almost every fecker has bought one over the years - buying a boot, or playing one is a little less poor than the lads who were part of the scene that actually booted the single, some of whom are legends on this scene. Also I take it that people get the hump with boots as the artist/writer/publisher doesn't get the exposure/royalties or whatever? Explain then why it was deemed okay to cover up stuff then - same shit as booting stuff surely, if not moreso? As c/u tracks kept the artists exposure concealed for years. Boots if nothing else spread the names of the writers and singers to an audience that otherwise would not have been able to own, play at home to others, inform others about these obscure artists etc. If I may bring in at this point that Defected Records (Old Soul Boy Simon Dunmores baby label understood this to the degree that they released accapella albums that were specifically released as to encourage people to release underground covers of their own releases - as - they reaalised that anything that carried their vocal imprint spread the word of the original content....I'm going off on one here aren't I? C/u's seem to have been tolerated as okay as it made 'your' scene a tad more mystical when you rattled on about it to people outside of your circle, it made you look a little cooler - at the same time (then - BITD) boots were part and parcel of the scene - end of the night, you had £2 quid left you bought a boot off Minshull or Madeline - boots, as this scene has matured have suffered as people have similarly matured - and it smacks of hypocrisy at times - don't talk bad about bootlegs if you still have one nestling in your box. 'Let he who casts the first pressing' and all that ay?

The King Is Dead - Still!

That period was my time and I understand that it is impossible for me to say that my time was better than anyone elses, but it was a special time in NS history. The introduction of varying forms of black music era's to a close knit underground musical fraternity (I know the introduction of newer productions caused ripples but it's all part of our history), killer sixties discoveries coupled with deserving 70's and 80's indies alongside the tried and tested 'Oldies' made it unmissable. It was Searlings play-ground and Wigan went out on a high musically. Without that lad leading the way, your Rotherhams and the other venues that followed his light wouldn't have kept the torch alive. Knock Modern, Newies , 70's or whatever you would call it if you will, but I doubt that without the input of that form of music (or Searlings input) at the time, the NS scene would have faced a stiffer challenge and it may not have bridged the gap as well as it did when Wigan closed.

Mate! As I am three sheets to the wind and I have a natural aborrence to edited posts I would like to profer my deepest apologies for my balloon-like reply to your post. I come on here with good intentions but after fending off shitty replies for a while I occasionally scan posts and expect them to being posts aimed at having a pop. Which is what I have done with yours. I have made a c*ck out meself and I apologise, you were obviously stating a truth and I feel truly awful. Sorry fella.

I'd have preferred to have read your pre-edited post Mossy - edits don't look good mate. Actually upon re-reading it, I don't understand uour well thought out reply. I can taste the sarcasm but I prefer a good meat and two veg answer mesen'. Certain posts don't half bring out the celebrity-seekers don't they, ay??

Either you are attempting to attach yourself to me as to bathe in my natural SS message board glow or you are bull-shitting, as I have never, ever had a negative thing to say about Wigan. What was yer name again?

The day Hilda banned clogs at the door was a definate turning point for me.

I got bored with that sleep malarky when the dot came on after the National Anthem was broadcast at 10.30pm on The Beeb mate. Call yourself a Soulie?

Bugger! So sunglasses brought about the beginning of the end then did they? It's a bloody learning curve this.

Thanks for the input folks.

Nice question but I can feel the love in the replies.