SOULCENTRAL

HI MIKE, TO BE HONEST I THINK "ATTITUDE" IS APT TO DESCRIBE THINGS MUSICALLY BUT "UPFRONT" SHOULD ALSO BE SPOKEN IN THE SAME SENTANCE. ROY

GET REAL MY FRIEND????????? The reality is that if i do not know you i am not your friend. Not nitpicking ,just highlighting some of your less desirable attributes. My recollections of the Central circa 1968 is that it was a venue that catered for the mod/soul fraternity.It is only my recollection. I know for a fact that soul music was played at the Central prior to 1971. Maybe the respected Malc Burton would shed light on this. As for the folks you mention, i dont know/know of them so cant address the problem and neither have i taken issue over this.

HI WINNIE, Your reply to this post of Lens basically sums up and presents the answer to all of the arguments regarding the oldies v rare and underplayed. Both genres of the soul scene are poles apart musically and the social side of of both genres are poles apart as well. Too many of the crusaders of the upfront venues and events take the opinion that Northern is just "that old sh*te" but it is all our heritage after all. A lot of the music played at these events seems to me to be of the driving,gritty.r&b type sound that just does not do it for the Northern classics follower and i do not believe it ever will.Some of the nighters and underplayed nights i have visited i think you would struggle to pick a handfull of tunes that you could introduce to the classics crowd. As you said the Northern punters like what they know and know what they like both musically and socially and it is almost impossible to educate them to anything other than the stompers and classics of late 60s and 70s soul. Like wise the dj's who cover the rare and underplayed side of the scene constantly drive it forward without any regard to what/who is filling the void behind them aqnd as people age attendances have proved to be on the decline. There is a growing group of younger followers of the r&u type of event but these guys will be lost to the scene as they seem not to be welcomed and given time at the decks at the established events, and so are promoting their own. Do i think these events will disappear?, no, but they will become smaller and also the nighter scene will shrink as there is overkill with the number of events. regards ROY

SOASH, Just want to address a few of the above points. I did not double post but missed out an essential word in my first post which could have caused offence to the person concerned and therefore rectified this with the second post, or did you not pick up on this. Yes you do not know me and i do not know you although i do know Pete Dillon but he is a big boy and can speak up for himself. I cannot see how you keep coming to this conclusion of changing 1968 for 1971. If you "dont give a shit" then why be so belligerant with your constant postings refuting any bodys views that differ from yours?. I have no desire to be pass derogatory remarks regarding your views or recollections of that time period, as your views are just that, your views. regards ROY

SOASH, If you do not know the history of the Central then do not make the presumption that it was ""not a venue around" 1968. You attempt to ridicule and dispute Pete Dillons statement about the club and the timelines by quoting from the May flyer which is true and correct in its statement: It is exactly 40 years that the 'Leeds Central' started playing Northern Soul, so that makes this the 40th anniversary too The Central did start playing "Northern soul" around late 1971 as many of its regular attendees from the mod and soul period from 1968 to 1971 no longer frequented the club and it was time for the club to move onwards and upwards.The Central first started becoming popular with the mod/soul fraternity mid 1968 but was not as popular as the exsting Bee Gee club as it was regarded the young pretender.However the club grew in stature and attendance and the demise of the BeeGee made it more popular as it was the only real venue in Leeds which gave you both the atmosphere and the music. You claim that no one in Wakefield was going to the Central in the 60s..... You sure must know a hell of a lot of people in Wakefield!!!!!!! You also mention Rob Lemoine attending almost every Metro saturday and why would he do that if the Central was open?? Simple answer...... the Central opened on a friday and sunday night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Soash it seems you have taken major offence to the fact that there are other people from a similar era that have different recollections to yours especially regarding the dj issue at the Metro of which you are adamant that yours is the truth and nothing but the truth. These are peoples recollections from forty plus years ago and so there are bound to be differences so its best to agree to disagree. As for people wanting to be older and claim stuff never happened, i doubt it. None of us want to grow old or be older than we are and recollections are exactly that....recollections, including yours, and they only gain foundation when others have the same recollections. I am not challenging your view of those times but as Pete Dillon stated he is NOT calling you a liar but expressing his recollections of the time and really you should be a bir more cordial in your replies. Failing that i will send you the book on "How to win friends and influence people" :yes: regards ROY Apologies to Pete for misssing out the vital word

SOASH, If you do not know the history of the Central then do not make the presumption that it was ""not a venue around" 1968. You attempt to ridicule and dispute Pete Dillons statement about the club and the timelines by quoting from the May flyer which is true and correct in its statement: It is exactly 40 years that the 'Leeds Central' started playing Northern Soul, so that makes this the 40th anniversary too The Central did start playing "Northern soul" around late 1971 as many of its regular attendees from the mod and soul period from 1968 to 1971 no longer frequented the club and it was time for the club to move onwards and upwards.The Central first started becoming popular with the mod/soul fraternity mid 1968 but was not as popular as the exsting Bee Gee club as it was regarded the young pretender.However the club grew in stature and attendance and the demise of the BeeGee made it more popular as it was the only real venue in Leeds which gave you both the atmosphere and the music. You claim that no one in Wakefield was going to the Central in the 60s..... You sure must know a hell of a lot of people in Wakefield!!!!!!! You also mention Rob Lemoine attending almost every Metro saturday and why would he do that if the Central was open?? Simple answer...... the Central opened on a friday and sunday night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Soash it seems you have taken major offence to the fact that there are other people from a similar era that have different recollections to yours especially regarding the dj issue at the Metro of which you are adamant that yours is the truth and nothing but the truth. These are peoples recollections from forty plus years ago and so there are bound to be differences so its best to agree to disagree. As for people wanting to be older and claim stuff never happened, i doubt it. None of us want to grow old or be older than we are and recollections are exactly that....recollections, including yours, and they only gain foundation when others have the same recollections. I am not challenging your view of those times but as Pete Dillon stated he is calling you a liar but expressing his recollections of the time and really you should be a bir more cordial in your replies. Failing that i will send you the book on "How to win friends and influence people" :yes: regards ROY

HI SWISH, I CAN CERTAINLY VOUCH FOR THE STATEMENT ABOVE. You did just about every club that was open for business from circa 1972...... and then some. Not satisfied with just attending, you also carried a box of tunes which were deployed to the masses at many of the clubs you visited. regards ROY

IN A NUTSHELL......JEALOUSY,GREED, EGO'S AND A LOVE OF THE MUSIC REPLACED WITH "ITS BUSINESS" ATTITUDE. OH AND ABOVE ALL, A LACK OF RESPECT FOR WHAT PEOPLE HAVE DONE AND ARE STILL DOING FOR THE SCENE TODAY. MINI RANT OVER. ROY

HI RUSS, IS NOT THAT THE CASE WITH MOST SO CALLED EVENTS WHICH ARE "PROMOTED" THESE DAYS. ROY

BEARSY, You are being a bit harsh here although £80 to £150 might be a realistic starting price for the auction. Nev i would'nt get too excited over this lot as although there are some nice old classics in there. I dont think that you would make any sort of profit from selling these on,especially if you bid the asking price of £800 :( :( ROY

PETE, I DONT AGREE WITH YOU ON MANY OF YOUR POSTS BUT ON THIS OCCASION I AM WITH YOU 100%. ROY

HI NEV, I dont think there is a real problem with people selling boots/re-issues etc as we are all aware that in demand records are booted and sold on e-bay as a matter of regular occurance, it is something that happens now and has been happening since as far back as 1972. The problem becomes a major issue when the seller employs dubious ethics in order to maximise the auction price. That is he is vague in his description of the item,economical with the truth and evasive when questioned about the said item. Most collecters with a reasonable amount of knowledge can spot a boot amile away but likewise there are those unsuspecting enthusiasts who are a little wet around the ears who unfortunately get duped into paying silly prices. I myself have bought quite a few boots/re-issues for my own listening pleasure which i will be seling soon, probably on e-bay but my description of the items will be honest and truthfull and the price will reflect this. Apologies to all collectors of original vynlil if my opinion offends but it is only my opinion! regards ROY

HEY BARNEY, They were not clapping the fact you played off cd's as that was the norm for SIS, They clapped becuase they appreciated your taste/choice of music which is definatley a first for you :lol: . Take care pal and keep eating the pies!!!!!!!!! :lol: Regards ROY

HI LORRAINE, NICE OF YOU TO JOIN THE THREAD AND GIVE YOUR OPINIONS ON THIS SUBJECT FROM THE OTHER SIDE SO TO SPEAK. I will have to mention my favourite track by Levi and the Tops-Ask The Lonely. This is one of the most soulful sounds i have had the pleasure to listen to in recent times and was not even aware of its existance until about five years ago, yet i have been into soul music for some forty five years. You are obviously a fan of the Four Tops so what was your favourite from their catalogue? Regards ROY

HI ALL. IT TRULY IS AMAZING THE DIFFERENT SLANTS THAT PEOPLE ARE PLACING ON WHAT SOUL IS TO PEOPLE. Some of the replies and quotes are short and sweet and some give a great breakdown of all things soulful. One thing comes through very clearly and that is just like beauty is in the eye of the beholder, soul is certainly in the heart of the individual. ROY

HI FLANNY, You don't have to explain it just give your interpretation of it!!!!!!!! ROY

HI STEVIE, What a great post in response to my post,blew me away!. Many of the sentiments you have expressed reflect peoples opinion on what is SOUL. As you say there is no right or wrong opinion and its all down to the individual on the day but it is great to get peoples perspective on what is an emotional and sometimes contentious subject. For many, a life without soul is no life at all, such is the depth of peoples love/passion for the music. ROY

HI JOBBO, Got to admit you have made a good point here however i have always regarded blues as something that grew out of the despair that many american blacks felt when expressing their feelings in music, regarding their lot in life. Soul music seems to be predominantly about love and relationships. As the dictionary quote stated Soul has blues and other genres within it. I do agree with what Tommy said in principle but felt it important to get an informed opinion from him as his experiences and career spans many decades. ROY

A monster Northern Soul Dance record from the early days and still does make the hairs on the arms stand up. However i still believe it was dismal from a soul perspective and can't understand why anyone would regard it as Soulful. ROY

WELL HERE WE ARE ON SOULSOURCE READING THE FORUMS AND LOOKING AT ALL THINGS SOULFUL BUT HAVE YOU EVER ASKED YOURSELF WHAT IS SOUL? The collins english dictionary defines SOUL as: Spiritual and immortal part of human beings Deep and sincere feelings Black music combining gospel,blues and pop Soulful-full of emotion In a musical context the above references just about covers the aspects of why we regard certain records we all love as SOUL. I personally would not regard blues as SOUL but would regard some gospel and the odd r&b record as being SOULFUL. Back in the days of the Torch,Mecca/Casino etc i do not believe that many of the people(myself included) who frequented these establishments were particularly bothered wether the records we were dancing to at the time were SOUL. The only thing that mattered in those days was if it had a great dance beat and paid little attention to the lyrics or the lack of them. After all many of the tunes being played were not mass released and artists were unheard of. I am sure many of the dj's back in the day will disagree with that opinion but there was some real dross played at the time which masqueraded as Northern Soul ie, Rat Race. Today there seems to be the divide between Northern Soulies(those who love to dance and listen to the old classics) and the modern/crossover/70s crowd who dance and listen to something a little different. Who are the ones who regard themselves as being lovers and followers of SOUL music?. Hopefully both will, but to do so must surely embrace aspects of both divisions. I was speaking with Tommy Hunt the other week and asked him what he felt was SOUL to which he replied - SOUL is about life and love the pain and passion and when put into music is sang from the heart with your deepest feeling. That just about sums it up for me when i first got bitten by this music called SOUL. Would be nice to hear of some other opinions on this but please from your own perspective. ROY

HI GEESE, Its difficult to be offended when you are just passing your own personal opinion on this subject but dont lower yourself to cheap jibes by calling him "the morning after pill guy". Taking into context the fact he said he drew his influence from the era of the Casino northern soul years, i would suggest image wise and musically, then we should not really make comparisons with artists of that era. Being influenced is taking something that has substance and putting your own mark on it. My sister bought the Strickland Banks cd for me back in january and i like it . It does have a soul element to it and find it refreshing and different to some of the sh*te thats portrayed as soul these days. There are very few creditable soul acts that have records in the charts these days although as stated there are some that given time may make it. In todays music scene how many artists perform because they believe in their music/lyrics and the message contained within it or do they perform to achieve fame and fortune?. I know which catagory i would stick Lady Ga Ga in . ROY

HI ALL, Its difficult to say that everyone who has passed a comment on this thread is either right or wrong as there is elements of truth in all comments. One thing is for sure is that the terminology applied to the music ie stormer, floater, stomper largely depends on regional perception of how the records are danced to. As far back as 1971 onwards, stompers were regarded as those with a driving dance beat eg Lenis Guess-Just ask me/Danny White-Cracked up whereas a stormer would be the likes of Younghearts-A little togetherness and similiar. The floaters came into the catagory as previously described by Matt. As Manus has stated above the so called stomping/shuffle style of dancing became prevelant post 1976 to records like Frankie Crocker and Gill Scott Heron, those records with a bit of a funky edge. In gods county of Yorkshire, the term given to the now on the spot dancing where the feet and legs move from font to back or side to side at speed is known as shuffling!. I can understand it also being called stomping due to the noise generated when a few people are dancing in time with each other. regards ROY

HI JULIAN, IF YOU STILL HAVE THAT OLD LAMBRETTA IN THE SHED I WILL GIVE YOU A HUNDRED QUID FOR IT ROY

HI STEVE, Talking to a lot of people and word is getting around about the Central reunion. Quite a lot of interest from people who missed out due to age as well. Shaping up to be well attended so get the flyers sorted and i will gladly spread the word. ROY

HI PETE, I CAN RECALL TONY BANKS ON MANY OCCASIONS AT THE MARKET STALL IN BRADFORD BUYING RECORDS IN TENS AND HALF DOZENS ON THE SATURDAY AFTERNOON BEFORE TRAVELLING DOWN TO THE TORCH ON THE NIGHT TO DO MUCH WHEELING AND DEALING. ALTHOUGH A LITTLE YOUNG AND NIEVE AT THE TIME I ALSO BOUGHT QUITE A FEW RECORDS ON VERVE, MGM,VIP, CAMEO ETC I WAS EARNING ABOUT £18-50 AS AN APPRENTICE AT THE TIME SO ONLY BOUGHT IN ONES AND TWO'S. :( HE ALSO BOUGHT SOME SILLY SOUNDING LABELS LIKE OKEH AT THE TIME!!! DOH IF I ONLY KNEW THEN WHAT I LEARNT IN LATER YEARS. :yes: THE STALL HOLDER ALSO CAUGHT ON TO THE FACT THAT THERE WAS MONEY TO BE MADE WITH BANKSY BUYING SO MANY RECORDS OF THE SAME LABEL/ARTIST, SO HE PUT THE PRICES UP FROM 30P TO 50P A SINGLE. ABSOLUTELY CRIMINAL. :yes: ROY