ImberBoy

If The 100 Club does close its doors I do hope that The 6T's Soul Club continues with Ady firmly at the helm all be it at a different location. It will be a crying shame if the club closes but if it does then it will not be the end of the world as we know it, Ady Crowfeet is The 100 Club as far as I'm concerned and the atmosphere is an attitude that we can transport with the same passion and feeling as deserving this great venue, bricks and motor are only the vessel, we are the brew that makes some where legendry and it can happen again in London. The money that is being asked for rates is no doubt a crippling amount, the landscape has changed now and it is about to change again, to ask for money from punters is too shortsighted and unsustainable, it would be ace if some rich musician could step in? I'll support Ady Croasnest either way, The only way is up!

Budget Northernsoul Deficits and Detroit Turn the news on and we are inundated with cost cutting. If we are all to tighten our belts, are there any promoters who are going to give anything back to the punter over the coming years or so? I know it's difficult yet I also know that there has been a gold rush of promotions over the last few boom years. Will we see any efforts to lower prices or give incentives such as loyalty cards? Can anything be done or are budgets squeezed as far as they can stretch when putting on a do? Will the present climate affect the Nighter numbers? Will the Soul Night's thin? I assume the majority of the promoter's outlay would be for the venue hire? The DJ's and equipment plus advertising and security along with insurance, I wouldn't like to be a promoter but are there any saving to be made than can be passed onto the punter?

Mega!

You said Semi

Love it!

I have not set out to upset any one and I promise that I am not some crazy racist with an agenda. I don't think that there are many black struggle records from Detroit (I feel that I may me the architect of my own doom here?) Black American music from Detroit, the motown and Northernsoul records we love so much are mainly about boy meets girl, I love you, you don't love me and the like? There is little to know reference of the black struggle? That is not to say that American blacks did not struggle but that culture does not surface in the majority of sixties dancers we love so much, educate me as and when please. This leaves me with a theory that the influences where not totally or dare I even suggest at all from the struggle? Africa has had its fair whack of modern-day slavery and some say more now than at ever before yet we do not hear any melodic soulful music or song coming from that continent yet all of the so called ingredients are there? I'd love to know more about the roots of black American music, or should I say as Pete pointed out "The sound of young America", you would expect a polished, rounded off sound to be present from Detroit, after all the migration of black Americans from the deep south to Detroit to work in the new industrial revolution is well documented but instead of hearing a black slave type holler or a Africanesque or even Blues base we hear a very much poppy clipity clop (I just know I will get death threats from that) sound. We do hear angst but do we really? What we do hear are some ultra-fantastic singers, that's not a black thing and to say it is would be the real racist suggestion and a suggestion that no other race can sing. I'm not interested in any racial profiling, I'm still trying to see the leap from the African drum, slavery songs, blues and gospel to becoming the best loved black music of all time ... soul. If it was Reggae that we were discussing then I can hear Africa, I can from Detroit.

paul humphrey - cochise -

edwin starr - my weakness is you -

I don't think he ever called it that but his work is a large slice of what is referred to as black American music.

I don't think The British Scooter Scene ever took him for granted, he was and is much loved and I will always remember the many times I was privileged to speak to him. Hi is a legend.

I think "The sound of black America" is a bit of a fib? I'm not too convinced that the black Americans had much to do with "the sound', big call to make and one that can easily be cuffed away but why hasn't the continent of Africa dominating world music? I don't even think that black American music is as unique to anything other than say Berry Gordy's marketing machine and American Bandstand? To say that Afro Americans had the upper hand on entertainment and marvelous singing voices is to deny a whole lot of music and when I look for black American before Detroit there aint much too separate white artists of that time? New Orleans didn't have any more black singers than they did white and the likes of Billie Holiday had their fair share of white competition in the singing stakes. I kinda think the likes of Berry Gordy marketed this so called "Sound of Black America" for the white record buying audience? Is it all just bubble gum pop or is there such a thing as black American music? Have we been sold a lie? If the Motown sound is the pinnacle of Black America then how come there aint any African states producing the same stuff? Maybe I have far too much time on my hands today.

Sad

I do agree that it is a very complex and intricate subject but I do believe that the historians often place things in neat boxes and the less accepted and un sexier things are often left out. I think black America is given far too much of the lion's share of credit for rythmatic dance, I read all about slaves hollering to each other and how this changed into the blues, I hear how church music influenced by slave chants became gospel. The African drum was not the first beat 9well it was if you go back and I mean wayyyyyyyy back) there was another drum that never gets a mention and a drum that was present at the start of the black journey and that was the military drum. The navy used toe tappers and drum based music to encourage the sailors to dance on board ship and many military marches are toe tapping well, who can keep still to the Grenadier? Now I am not reinventing the origins of Motown nor am I claiming that soul started in Yorkshire but the British influence never gets a mention. Ken thanks for sending me that link, fascinating stuff mate a good read. The History Of: Blues Music Like most articles it starts at the convenient establishing music well ready for the onslaught of recording and public outings but we are still left with a gap.

Time?

For Pete............. At what point did a drum and a scrappy tribal beat become an accepted and loved melodic sound, how when and why?

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Yup couldn't agree more

Spot on Ken not many would argue that. I still wonder at the juncture when the music morphed from the clumsy tribal polyrhythm to the sound we know and love now because the sound of Africa aint too much like American black music, the vocalization and the melody seems to have come from somewhere and I can't see/hear it in any European base? The slaves would have heard choir music, don't forget this would have been well before the gospel rhythm and the only other music would have been sea shanties and English folk music that in its self sounds far away from melodic rythmatic pieces? The only other music would have been the classics that would have no doubt been heard. Old African Slave Song I believe would have been sang whilst toiling in the fields and like then as Christianity and the black church formed we would have had a meld of cultures. These may have been replicated in the fields and for the amusement of the slaves, Tin Pan Alley and brass music was a very English thing and the fusion of brass and blues sang out of desperation given to strings of banjos and piano sees jazz and RnB. European influences are possibly more important than given credit for? Mr Gordy and the like take credit for cleaning up a sound and packaging it for whitey but I still can't hear the folk music or sound and taste of the Europe of the slave trade? I'm trawling through period music now on you tube trying to find the connective tissue and the change from a rudimentary drum to a melody, 2010 and still searching for the young soul rebel.

Malc you have passed the first test. lol

""Youth" today don't enjoy the same opportunities we had in terms of new music." Nonsense The "Youth of today" have ALLWAYS been strangled by the labels and the music machine! The very fact that we are on this forum is a testament of breaking away from the commercial and spoon fed and this was the seventies and early eighties. Today the kids are exactly in the SAME position and they need to decide if they want to look for music or just receive music, there is as much quality and diversity for them as there has ever been, no, I'd go further than that and say there is more as they have all of ours to choose from as well but the rub is choice, they must make it!

The sound of black America? The Motown Sound (the Motownesque sound) where did it come from? Well the easy answer is Motown but the influx of black Americans was an economic migration from the Deep South to the big city lured by money from factory work, parallels to the north of England is of note here but for another discussion. The sound of Black America and they sound we all love is attributed to a fusion of slave songs, gospel and a fresh up beat mix founded, arguably, in Detroit. Theres not many who don't know this and very few who would argue it but strip back the sound we love back to the Deep south and back to its accepted origins of black slaves bringing polyrhythm music to the shores of America. Now it is accepted that a fusion of European waltzes and influences from polka, waltzes and other European music melted together to give what we now know and accept as the sound of black America. I think we have a gap and a leap of faith here because the two musical influences are far from an easy mix, if we look at the sound of Africa and the cultural music of indigenous peoples they do sound a far cry from Motown, of course they sound different I hear you gasp, but it is a difference that fall far from most palettes, when was the last time you bought a African Music LP? I believe we have lost an important "missing link" of black American music; the loss in my opinion would have been caused by the lack of technology and the reluctance to write a record of this music. I intend to build a time machine this weekend and go back and bring back what I believe will be some sound recordings that will blow us all away!

Nowt wrong in the "rare soul crowd let their hair down and embrace 'the played to death Wigan classics'." I love Stoke, missed the last 2 due to family and work commitments. Stoke is a time machine for me and a total unique experience that gives me tingles just thinking about it, I love walking in and seeing loads of friends and the part atmosphere is infectious. I don't want to do this every week or month but I am fookin glad it's there so I can enjoy the classics in a brilliant environment. I think the crowd at The IOW is dancing to the beat, they care little for the musical content as long as they can shake a tail feather, nowt wrong with that and some say "It's only a night out" I would like to believe that the Northernsoul scene is a bit different; we are far quicker to get into bed with a track, embrace it, study it and allow it to become part of our DNA. Sounds a little over the top/ I can't see many Hipshakers rushing over to the DJ booth to ID a new track in anticipation of tracking the little fooker down and cherishing it, mothering it and adopting it like a lost child adding it to a record collection? To us (The Northernsoulies), music is far from disposable, we are not snobs but we care about the music, as horrible as it sounds, the scene down south, the European scene and the students and young crowd do not have the same connection to our music as us, some do I grant you but our cultural origins and our investment in time and passion is well different. I think this is why we end up lampooning The Snake

I think there are a few parallels when comparing the two scenes but there are also some major differences. Both scenes enjoy being a "little" offbeat, I suppose they used to be underground but this is arguable now as the majority of people are returning after many years of absence. Returning back to anything brings with it a retrospective, nostalgic look and a real resistance to embrace any changes that have happened in their absence, we see this manifest itself here on Soul Source all the time when people refuse anything new. The soul scene does have its regular allnighter goers and its fair slice of progressive ears ready and eager to listen to unheard of records or even dare I say Modern? This is only a small minority now days as our scene is flooded with most who crave for a Wigan Casino time machine, nowt wrong with that but it does not lend its self to much in the way of new sounds. The scooter scene is more of a party scene where the scooter is pivotal and the music being more of an accompaniment rather than the main dish, there will be the odd unknown Northernsoul record played but this will only be done in the safe assurance that the Northernsoul scene has filtered the tune firs. There is no record broken on the scooter scene first then crossing over to the Northernsoul Scene, you may get the rare dusted off track but nothing originating from the scooterist. Yup the scooter scene has championed some tracks and even played their part in saving or should I say propping up the scene but to suggest that there is ever going to be fresh vibrant sounds coming from scootering is a na¯ve or a bit of a uniformed fib. I have been doing both scenes without a break since 1978., not an expert but I like to think I'm experienced in both scenes even though I ride a gay plastic fantastic most of the time!

This is what we did at the weekend, https://www.tafsc.com/RTTW.htm

Not too sure if there are any differences?

Don't fookin start with all that camembert versus brie shite! I remember the fights that caused at the last Soul Source picnic, we had the Modern fans throwing Soft-ripened and blue-veined Camembert wedges at the sixties crew who retaliated using Edam and Gouda filled volovants , the RnB Catz going mental chicken oriental at the Philadelphia tubs. Let's never go down that milk based food product road again.