Robbk

Good point, Chalky. Popcorn recorded for Johnnie Mae Matthews' Northern Records near the beginning of 1960. Berry Gordy was friendly with Popcorn, and used his band on some sessions in 1959. And, he easily could have been asked by Berry to test the new equipment he bought from Bristoe Bryant in late 1959 (as Al Abrams has attested. But, like other recording session musicians at that time, I believe he did NOT have a contract with Tamla, or Motown, and so, was free to sell his songs to anyone he chose. Furthermore, the recordings were test recordings, and not really finished. So Berry didn't want them. And, as the main purpose was just to test the equipment, Gordy probably made the deal with popcorn that the latter could keep the tapes afterwards, and do what he pleased with the music and the songs rights. THAT, must certainly be why those 2 songs weren't published by Jobete Music, as Gordy was very careful to keep all rights possible, after getting none or very little of the money from record sales when having his songs pressed and distributed on other people's labels (such as George Goldner's End/Gone/Mark-X and Vega, and Robert West's Kudo, and Atlantic and Chess, etc.).

The pink and white promos are quite common. I looked through literally millions of 45s from the year that record was out through today, and I have NEVER SEEN A YELLOW ONE! I would guess that the yellow one is very rare. But, considering that the stock issue was extremely common, as were both the pink and white DJs, I wouldn't think that the yellow DJ would be very valuable, despite its rarity.

I absolutely HATE being senile! I, myself, mentioned the label owner as Lee Gordon at least 6 times in this thread alone. My memory for details from 1949-1979 is second to none. But, I can't remember anything from 5 minutes ago or 2 seconds ago. I guess I'd be in an oldies' care home, already, if I didn't eat fish every day and drink fish oil.

I imagine it is pretty rare, as Gordon didn't have all that much money, and it was pressed up for a small market for US Black music in 1959 in Australia and New Zealand. I've only ever seen the one that was recently sold, and had never heard of it before, despite having been in the loop of US Detroit collectors since the early 1960s, and having worked for Motown during most of the 1970s. I'd guess that most of Motown's staff never knew that Gordon got hold of Wylie's demos and released them Down Under. A limited pressing in both Australia and New Zealand, 56 years hence.......I'd guess it would be extremely rare both on Australian and New Zealander Leedon. Just an aside, ....... I wonder what the "Lee" in Leedon stands for. Just surmising, but I'd bet a fellow named Lee (probably an Aussie businessman) was Gordon's financial partner in his labels.

Thanks Dave. Micky Shorr was a popular DJ on Detroit radio station WXYZ. He knew many, if not most of the early Motown staff and artists. He probably knew Gordon as well, and turned Gordon onto the fact that Gordy wasn't going to use Wylie's 2 demos for anything (knowing that Gordon was trying to promote recordings, and get into the music business. Maybe he did that on behalf of Wylie, so Popcorn could get the cuts released}.

The original pposter sytated that "Money" by NBarrett Strong came out on Anna Records first. But, it came out on Tamla Records first locally, and was leased later, to Anna for national distribution. But, it is true that Anna did press some 78s of it, while U.S.Tamla did not.

Mickey Schorr (Shorr) was said to be the connection to Motown. I've seen that name connected with Detroit R&B/Soul music before. Does anyone know more about him?

I'm sure it's Auss[e/NZ.

No Motown completists here interested in this find? I am surprised. We have an e-mail in to Al Abrams, to see if he remembers anything about these recordings. Clearly they were just demos to test the newly acquired recording equipment, and the rumour about them being pressed on an unnumbered pink Motown 45 issued before The Miracles' "Bad Girl" is inaccurate, based on misconceptions and quotes taken out of context. I'm wondering if Wylie just sold the tapes to that Australian guy, because Gordy had no plan to use them for anything.

Here are links to the cuts for you to listen: Leedon was Australian record label owner Lee Gordon's label. It has been surmised that Gordon, while in Detroit in 1959, visited Motown, and apparently, liked "Rumble", and leased the 2 cuts from Motown, for immediate release on his Australian and New Zealand labels. Either he had a connection in Detroit, from whom he was referred to Motown (possibly promoter, Mickey Schorr?), or while there, he heard "Rumble" played on the radio. The rumour is that a small press run of unnumbered pink Motown pressings were made to hand out to DJs. I really wonder if "Rumble" was played at all by Detroit DJs. IF so, Gordon may have heard it on the radio. Do any of you old-time Detroiters remember hearing "Rumble" by Popcorn Wylie on the radio in summer 1959? I find it interesting that neither song has rights owned by Jobete, Bengal, Fidelity, Ro-Gor, Stein and Van Stock, or any Motown-related music publisher, currently listed on BMI.com or ASCAP.com., and even more interesting that Australian label-owner, Lee Gordon, listed himself as co-writer of the two songs (together with Popcorn Wylie) on the pressings of his New Zealand (and likely his Australian) releases. THAT makes me wonder if he did that as he was giving Wylie his only chance to get artist publicity and songwriter royalties, as this was the two cuts' only commercial release (e.g. Motown never released this record).

According to a Richard "Popcorn" Wylie discography, the following 2 cuts on Australia's and New Zealand's Leedon Records in 1959 were also on an unnumbered Motown 45, ostensibly before TLX2207, "Bad Girl" by The Miracles, which came out in September of 1959. Here are scans of the Leedon sides: I looked up the record and songs on "Don't Forget The Motor City", and they weren't listed. I looked up the songs on BMI.com and ASCAP.com, and the songs weren't listed. I never saw nor heard those 2 cuts on tapes or acetates in The Motown Vault, or on any official or unofficial Motown recordings or record list. They do sound like 1959 Motown recordings, with Popcorn playing the piano, and someone sounding very much like Beans Bowles on the sax, and with Motown's early house band (Joe Hunter's Band, but with Popcorn on piano, rather than Joe) doing the backing.

In scarfing up thousands of 45s in the '50s and '60s, I had hundreds of instances of thinking I already had a record and passing it up, only to find that I didn't have it, and going the other way, not sure if I had it, and, so, buying it, only to find that I already had it, with 3-4 extras among my duplicates. It was impossible to take lists around with me and look all up and down a list each time I looked at a record. With prolific groups like The Platters, Flamingos, Drifters, and single artists like, Muddy Waters, Bobby Bland, etc., it was virtually impossible to remember which non-hits I had by them, and which I didn't have. That's how a collector builds up a stock of tradeable and saleable duplicates, in addition to condition upgrading.

Those lyrics certainly ring a bell with me. I have heard that song many times. But, i can't place it now, out of context. Maybe I havent heard it for the last 40 years.

Dora Hall, aged grandmother whose millionaire husband, Leo Hulseman, financed her narcisist recording "career" from profits from his Solo Cup Company (water cooler cups). She sang mostly re-makes other legitimate stars' hits. Margaret Whiting was a very poppish 1940s Pop singer who had a NS hit with a song she recorded in the mid 1960s. I wouldn't term Little Lisa a Soul artist, despite her singing over But, then, quite a bit of so-called Northern Soul was never considered Soul Music by me. some Motown backgrounds.

That Horace recording is not nearly as good as the Enterprise version. Is it a much later remake? Where was Horace located, and who produced it and put it out?

Your issues were both pressed at RCA (Midwest) , thus the stamper and L8OW codes. That was probably a regionwide issue. Maybe the issue being offered to De-To was a local pressing at a small Detroit plant that was the first small local pressing (thus the etching-only of the H numbers (Motown's in-house code). I can't imagine enough interest in Eugene Remus' cuts to warrant a special lookalike boot. If such a boot had been made, it would have been made for Motown completists, and we'd have seen more early Motowns and Tamlas booted, as well as the Rayber, and probably the rarer Miracle records. ​

I concur that Eugene Remus did NOT have a boot in the early '80s when a few Satintones (Motown and Tamla) and Miricles on Motown and a rare Miracles' Tamla side were all booted. If you scan it and put it up here on this thread - with good resolution, I (and probably others of us here) could tell you if it looks fake.

I can't check mine as I won't be with my US 45s until September. But it sounds like it MIGHT be legit. I don't remember ALL the early Motown pressings having machine stamped-in entries. Have you checked "Can't Forget The Motor city" website?

Henry Hull was one of the great American film actors.

The otherwise very extensive and thorough bio was missing Carl's contract and time with Mercury Records. Not so critically important, but I was surprised, nonetheless.

Absolutely! That has got to be an original West Coast styrene pressing from Monarch. The boots photocopied off an original label had weaknesses and thin spots in the black print. The blemishes and fading on the label appear to be from a very long period (like 50 years).

Clearly, that is "Unity" Records. The part that looks like a "C" is the extension of the letter "U", analogous to the extension to the right of the lettern "Y".

My guess is that the value isn't all that great. I doubt that it is sought by many R&B collectors. Holiday was one of the many labels owned and run by Bobby Robinson (famous NY record shop owner). There were several very good mid-'50s vocal group harmony releases on that label.

"Oh Baby" is a Kent Harris song?

I don't profess to have any "inside" information on those particular events. I am only surmising based on knowledge of the industry and logic. The scenario I described has happened thousands of times, and I can't imagine a different set of events that could have led to those same occurrences.