Robbk

15 hours ago, Soul Salad said: I can only speak from my perspective (from the sales/chart hits in the UK) of course millions were sold, but growing up even to this day ALL "Motownish" radio plays/hits happen to ALL be on the Motown label. I cant think of any records at this point that were "Motownish" but NOT on the Motown label. Answer: With you first being a Soul fan during the 1980s and 1990s, naturally the Motown hits would be played as oldies a lot more on BBC than even the biggest hits of the '60s motownish non-Motown records. Clearly you didn't get the opportunity to listen to offshore "Pirate" Radio. So, I understand your point of reference, which doesn't have even a remotely clear picture of what happened in The US record market back during the 1960s.

(1) Of course they did! The Motown label sold literally millions of records. Why would you ask such a question? How else can anything be bought but actively? Can one passively buy a record? Maybe you should clarify the intent of your question. (2) Your impressions of the relative markets for Motown records and non-Motown records that sound "Motownish" aren't quite accurate, as many motown-sounding records produced by non-Motown record companies charted and even were regional and/or national, or even international hits. Yes, your impression that a higher % of Motown's own "Motown-sounding records sold well than the non-Motown "Motownlike" records is correct.

True enough, but MANY of those totally non-commercial issues were only produced to an actual pressing stage because they were favours to people, some of which for the company's prestige, some for favours owed from people who helped Motown (distributors, DJs, etc) in some other way, some for music business "political" reasons, in-house employees "vanity" recordings/pressings, favours for relatives and close friends, etc. All these categories represent a good portion of Motown's least commercial pressings. Motown recorded hundreds and hundreds of songs. Of those many, I probably have a favourite list of only maybe 60 or 70 that I am terribly sorry they didn't issue on plastic during the 1960s (such as "A Tear From A Woman's Eye" by The Temptations, "Crying In The Night" by The Monitors, and "All I Have Left Are Memories" by Sammy Turner, "Tears, Nobody, and A Smile" by The Serenaders, "Lover Boy" by Carolyn Crawford, and "All I Do (Is Think About You) by Tammie Terrell, etc.). And that's probably a minuscule % of their overall recording. So, I don't think they did a poor or inefficient job of quality control. Based on their investment and scale of operations, they were the most efficient (and probably profitable) record company I can think of.

That sheer volume of releases literally drove me to hit the thrift shops, junk stores, five and dimes, record shop bargain bins, and discount stores special sales, and flea markets hard and heavy from a young age, just to be able to afford all of them I wanted. But, it got me a huge collection and ability to become an archivist without taking that field of employment. And it eventually got me work at Motown. So, I'm glad my life took that route.

I don't agree. Listening to writers' or demo singers' recording of an in-house demo is not the same as listening to the final, commercial recording, after several takes of the song, possibly sung by different singers, and going through several different mixes of the background instrumental music. Every finished record has its own combination of elements that will combine into a "best" version, one of which might return a monster hit, and the others might not even chart. I know this from my own experience at Airwave, and through people I knew at Motown. Motown Quality Control made LOTS of poor choices, to go along with their big winners. There were many choices, especially by Billie Jean Brown, that I disliked intensely. But the overall quality of their finished product was so good, that it brought them a lot more hits than any other record company, and a much, much higher % (ratio) of hits and charted records to those actually pressed up in reasonable commercial volumes, that they didn't waste a lot of money pushing "losers". They had their own high-quality recording studio (and starting in 1966 - 2 of them) running 24 hours a day, by many people on salary, or who would only make significant money IF the records would hit. So, they didn't waste a lot of money on recording. Motown staff erased hundreds of tapes of failed recording, and used them again on new projects (much to our chagrin for what interesting recordings we'd love to hear now that are lost forever). And having their artists and tryout artists recording so many different songs, produced a wonderful atmosphere of opportunity for Motown's contracted artists and budding, Motown singer "wannabees", which continuously attracted Detroit's young singing and songwriting talent to want to "hang out" there, and that's how several singers and songwriters were "discovered" by Motown's producers between 1961 and 1970. They had so much going on in the mid-to-late '60s that it was very difficult to keep track of it all. An example of that is that Marv Johnson recorded songs in Studios 1 and 2 for 3 whole years After his singing artist contract expired and was NOT renewed!!! His contract ended in 1969, and he was recording there until 1972. Apparently, no one told him or his producers. He still had a clerical job there, but was also still writing songs and recording them, and several came up for quality Control review for release. They might have issued a record on him without realising that he wasn't under artist contract. We've found at least 3 late '60s unreleased recordings by him, which have been released on CD and digital file. If he was still being recorded until 1972, we may have a few more to discover (unless the only copies were dubbed over. Could Motown have been more "critical" (efficient) at earlier stages of the artistic process? - Yes, BUT, in the long run, we'd likely have lost many good recordings we savour now. And there's no way of knowing whether they'd have made larger or smaller net profits because of that difference, in the long run. Berry sold his company (minus Jobete Music Co.) for 61 million Dollars in 1988 (which would equate to $163 million today). So, I really think the way they did things worked out well. My only truck with it is the loss of original master tapes that were erased and/or dubbed over).

Is that along with the vocals, or just the background tracks?

It SHOULD, given that it was recorded for Spector's artists, Bonnie & The Treasures.

Yes, that's it. I have the DJ record and bought it when it was out. Brenda didn't have a single artist record for A&M. And she absolutely WAS under exclusive contract with Motown as a singer at that time. I think Patrice was still under contract with Motown as well, because she was still recording songs for them as late as late fall 1965. So, even if The Remarkables' Frank Wilson was not under exclusive writing or singing artist contract with Motown at that time, he was working as a songwriter for Jobete, and either used the alias to protect Brenda and Patrice, or because he didn't want Marc or Hal to find out he was working on other projects, as he was concurrently working on important projects for them. The latter seems a lot less likely, however.

I've seen many copies of the Chester St. Anthony as the WDJ, and NEVER seen a store-stocker of it. and I've seeonly the ONE store-stocker of the Chester Fields, but NO DJ issue of that one. I wonder if A&M just changed the artist name for pressing the commercial issue, at Wilson's request (for some reason that we'll probably never learn?

I think that Frank Wilson of The Remarkables may have also worked at Jobete music, L.A. near its tail end. If he didn't, he worked with several of its regulars on non-Motown L.A. projects. The South L.A. Soul Music community was pretty tight. They all new each other, similar to the situation in Detroit. I can only guess about why he changed his name with A&M, and I'm guessing that even if it had no relationship to an exclusive contract for the same type of services, it was done to avoid Hal Davis and Marc Gordon finding out he was doing that. Brenda Holloway also had a record out with A&M at that time, and I also seem to remember that she, Patrice, and Pat Hunt (who were one of the two main girls background groups at Jobete) were a girls group who had a record out on A&M (those 2 Brenda Holloway references may be one in the same (I've forgotten). I'm guessing the 2 A&M releases were connected. Maybe Wilson changed his name for that release just to protect The Holloway sisters, as BOTH WERE under artist contract to Motown at that time? And I'm SURE that you are correct that credits for the 2 Frank Wilsons have been confused MANY times, as I've seen at least 6 or 7 instances, just that I can recall off the top of my head. I'm sure I've seen several more that I don't remember offhand.

Hi Peter, I've sent you a PM. (Not a Prime Minister!)

I only ever saw an advert of his in "Goldmine" (as shown above). But that was a few years after I met him. I met him at a used record store in Hollywood ("Music Man Murray's").

Thanks for posting that great article about John. It brings back a lot of memories. A lot of people were curious about him. And now they know more. So his father was a Newfy! That checks out with him telling me his parents were British, as Newfoundland didn't become part of Canada until 1949. I had thought John lived mostly on his record sales and only had a few forays into the recording industry. I never realised John did so much work for record companies (especially in publicity). We shared something in common other than record collecting. I worked as an economics consultant for 1st Nation tribes in Canada, and Native American tribes in USA for about 10 years. And I got involved a bit in their politics, attending some pow wows and other meetings. We knew some of the same people. It's a very small World! Too bad he died so young. But, unlike a lot of people in "The Western Rat Race", John lived his life the way he wanted. And that's to his credit.

It's DEFINITELY NOT The Soul and Power Records' Frank Wilson, and sounds VERY MUCH like The Remarkables' Frank Wilson. My vote is for the latter.

Thanks again Graham. This one's sound is a bit muddy, making it hard to understand Fred in spots. But, it's still great to hear it. According to what Fred said about "Baby Don't You Weep", that they recorded it "Downtown"(at Specialty) around the same time as Wilson Pickett's "Let Me Be your Boy" and he talked about Wilbur Golden, I still think they were both started out as Correc-Tone projects, but as told to me back during the '60s, Golden ran short of cash and allowed Bateman to shop the Bridges recording in New York, in lieu of Bateman's back salary owed him by Golden (because of the large amount of money he spent on building their recording studio and having had to pay back money he owed Ed Wingate. Bridges mentioned that Bateman shopped it along with other recordings he was talking to Lloyd Price's Double- L (Bateman finally made a deal with them in '63). So, it sounds to me that the Versatile pressing came out in spring 1962 (which is when i bought it), rather than late 1961, the period you state that Columbia's East Coast pressing plant indicate. My memory tells me that Correc-Tone 501-503 and The Fred Bridges Versatile records came out around the same time in spring 1962.

Happy Christmas and a healthy and prosperous New Year of 2024 to everyone involved with this wonderful and indispensable website!

"Hey Baby!" by The Ban-Lons. Not really a "Cover", as it wasn't out yet long after Bruce Chanel's version had stopped selling - it WAS however, a "remake". "Norwegian Wood" by Hugh Masekela "Grazing In The Grass" by Hugh Masekela "Cathy's Clown" by The Ideals "Hey Everybody" by Ramona King. - original by Henry Alston

I like the duo of The Parliaments' "That Was My Girl"/"Heart Trouble" better!

You must be REALLY young if a couple years apart seems like in different eras to you! At my age, two years goes by like the batting of an eye. I admit though, that I have records on my list from 2 different eras.

There were so very many 45s with super-good songs on both sides (many, many on Motown's labels. I'd have to think for years on it, or need to look at all 40,000+ of mine (which are scattered in 5 places on two different continents). I'd be long dead before I could determine which actually is my favourite 2-sided 45. What comes to mind first is "Open The Door To Your Heart"/"Our Love Is In The Pocket" by Darryl Banks. The Temptations' "My Baby"/"Don't Look Back" The Spinners' (Detroit of course!) "Truly Yours"/"Where Is That Girl" Mary Wells' "What's Easy For Two, Is So Heard For One"/"You Lost The Sweetest Boy" The Distants' "Come On"/"Always" The Uptones' "I'll Be There"/No More" The Shepprds' "Tragic"/Feel Like Lovin' " Actually, I think I liked the combo of "Golden Teardrops" and "Carried Away" by The Flamingos on Chance Records from 1953 a bit more. The Five Keys' "Red Sails In The Sunset"/"Be Anything, But Be Mine" The Five Keys' "My Saddest Hour"/"Oh Babe" Dionne Warwick's "Don't Make Me Over"/"I Smiled Yesterday" The Cinderellas' "Baby, Baby, I Still Love You"/"Please Don't Wake Me" Frances Nero's "Keep On Lovin' Me"/"Fight Fire With Fire" Terri Bryant's "Geni"/"When I'm In Your Arms" I could spend what's left of my life listing them continuously, and fall into a heap from exhaustion. So, I'll stop here.

Yes, the single version must be Dennis Edwards. The raspy parts give it away. The only other possibility would have been Paul Williams, but the raspy parts sound exactly like Edwards, because Williams would have been even more gravelly, and with a slightly deeper tone. Dennis' forays into falsetto are an unexpected pleasure, to say the least. I never knew his voice was that versatile. That situation reminds me of The Contours' Billy Gordon's mellow singing on the lead on "That Day She Needed me". It was a totally unexpected change from his normal baritone style.

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Nice article Keith. Lester, himself has been often overlooked, other than his rare record getting notoriety. I didn't like either side of his one LaBeat release. He was a much better singer than he showed on his two released cuts. Too bad his life was cut off so early. Too bad he didn't get a chance with a record company to give him a true chance and the right material. Unfortunately, we at Airwave couldn't get the financing to do a project on him, because we had other things going on, and by that time, he had really given up on trying to forge a singing career.

The earliest Correc-Tone productions all were published by Brianbert Music. "I Know How It Feels" was published by Jobete Music, and recorded by a couple Motown artists. I don't remember Brianbert Music sharing the publication on those records or recording listings. Laura Johnson's Correc-Tone Production of that song also had only Jobete Music as listed publisher. Although, it is curious that Brianbert was listed as one of the writers (which indicates the writing team of Brian Holland and Robert Bateman. So it was written by Janie Bradford, Popcorn Wylie, Brian Holland, and Robert Bateman, while they all were at Motown, Curiously, ALL four of them either had promised to leave and join Golden's new firm (Brian) or ended up there (the other three). You may well be correct that the Fred Bridges record was produced by Bateman and Holland when Bateman had left Motown for an earlier, very short stint in late '61. But then, Holland was probably involved. According to what Bateman said in another interview, he set up that music company for himself and Holland. Apparently, when Holland didn't join him at Correc-Tone, Bateman asked him to sign away his rights in the partnership, as the former was staying with Motown, and not following him to Correc-Tone. Holland was apparently moonlighting away from Motown starting in early 1962 and going until very early '64, with Pat Meehan's Hi-Lite, REM, and Pillar Records, as a producer and songwriter, using his mother-in-law's name, Dorothy Pierce as an alias so Gordy wouldn't find out. Joe Hunter was also moonlighting there. One of Hi-Lite's singers told me that. Quite a few Motown writers producers, musicians, and singers were moonlighting between 1961 and early 1964, just before the company skyrocketed, and most of the majortalents started to get decent money from him.

That may have been Wilbur Golden's first financed recording before Correc-Tone's Studio was finished. It was produced for him by Golden's chosen A&R Man for Correc-Tone, Robert Bateman, probably just after Stevenson backed out of his agreement to leave Motown. It was published by BrianBert Music (which was originally set up, by Bateman, to be either a partnership between Brian Holland and Robert Bateman (apparently just after Stevenson dropped out, and The Holland Brothers had not yet followed) or to represent the trio of those two and Golden, to be the in-house music publisher for Correc-Tone. So, it is clear that Bateman set up BrianBert Music to be used for Correc-Tone's operations. The reason for Golden sharing only a third of the publishing revenues, or getting nothing from it (and having his own publishing company, Correc-Tone Music), was that due to having so little cash available at the start of his operations, due to having to pay 3 months rent on his new offices and construction and equipment of and for his new recording studio, plus paying back a large loan to Ed Wingate, he didn't have enough cash to pay Bateman, the Holland Brothers, and pianist Willie Harbert (his new Chief musician/arranger) the full salary amounts they demanded. I assume that he had planned to use his own, Correc-Tone Music to start reaping those profits, after record sales revenues started rolling in in big numbers. That DiD happen after Bateman set up his own operations in New York, and eventually left Correc-Tone totally, in 1963. When The Hollands dropped out, Bateman decided to just keep Brianbert for himself alone. He and Brian had originally planned to use that name as a slight, ironic slap against Gordy, as "Brianbert" had been Motown's production team name for Brian and Robert (even when they added Freddie Gorman). All this was mentioned by Bateman in a few other interviews (and were stories I heard from other people who were at Motown back then, or knew the parties involved). As I recall, the ZTSP Columbia NY pressing plant pressing job code numbers starting with 816_ _ _, represented an early 1962 job. So, that seems to fit the time frame of Golden's reaching out to Motown's production people, and that particular incidence of Bateman's asking Gordy for a raise and threatening to leave. But maybe you are correct, and because Bateman had been almost constantly, during late 1961 through to his leaving in Spring '62, Bateman had been asking Gordy for a salary raise, due to his increasing production duties, successful sales from his productions, and his Snake-Pit recording accomplishments. But, even IF it happened BEFORE Golden started his operations, I think it still had been with Correc-Tone in mind and recording financed by Golden. I doubt that Bateman had the available cash at that time to finance the recording session time as well as the costs of setting up his music publishing company.