Robbk

The way I understood it was that The Vows had been brought in by Hal Davis (and Marc Gordon and Frank Wilson) to sing backgrounds and record demo tapes for eventual Motown artists to sing the songs for Jobete Music's L.A. office, just as The Holloway sisters, Gloria Jones, Mary Love, Sandy Wynns, Pat Hunt, and Jeanne King were. They would also record the songs (tapes and acetates) for Jobete Music's proof of ownership. The Vows had worked with Davis before. Their Tamara record was produced by him. The "Buttered Popcorn" side probably was an earlier recording (maybe 1963?). But, Jobete Music L.A. office started in 1963. I think Morris Chestnut first sang with The Vows in 1965. Yes, Marc Gordon brought in his Versatiles as well. They may also have sung some demos. I think that all the VIP records released other than those by The Elgins, Monitors and Velvelettes were just "favours" thrown towards artists to keep them from grumbling, and were never intended to sell. Berry Gordy needed Jobete Music L.A. to write songs and make demo tapes, and its producers to be available to produce the odd recordings on Detroit artists in L.A. once in a while. But, they didn't need Davis and Co. to be a hit-producing factory for L.A. artists. The Vows before Morris Chestnut joined were Morris' cousin, Ralph Chestnut, Helene Simpson, James Moore, and either Bobby Sullivan or Joe Lawson. Simpson and Morris were not with the Vows on the "Buttered Popcorn" recording, and probably not on "Tell Me". But Morris led on "My Baby Changes Like The Weather". He was with them starting in early 1965. I don't think he was a full member of their group in 1964, while they were doing demos for Jobete, but when Hal Davis also placed their "That's What You Do To Me"/"Dottie" with L.A.'s local Tamara Records, after Jobete Music turned those songs down.

What I don't understand why both these songs were released, and "My Baby Changes Like The Weather" was not. "Buttered Popcorn"/"Tell Me" didn't sell because it got no marketing push from Motown, and no air play.

Some great new finds on that compilation! New mid-sixties Detroit Soul! What could be better?

Yes, I played thos files again, and it's clear that the acetate was for the Mickay's record, not earlier recordings for Fred Brown's and Joe Hunter's Kable Records. Therefore, the girls in the background can't be The Primettes, unless it was recorded back in early 1961, and used with 1963 cuts by J.J. Barnes. I don't think that happened. Perhaps Motown's hitless Supremes moonlighted with Joe Hunter and Fred Brown in 1963, but, to me the girls on that record don't sound like them. I don't hear any of them individually. I have all the records you listed as having, plus one extra Mel Anton. There were 3 by him. Plus, I also have the first J.J. Barnes on Mickay's (#300) "These Chains of love"/"Color-Green". The other 2 Mel Antons you didn't list are: 3003 "What Can I Do"/"What's On Your Mind" , and 3005/3006 "Hey Little Girl"/"Third House, Second Block" (I've never seen this). Did you know that J.J. Barnes' record on Ring 101 ("Poor Unfortunate Me"/"She Ain't Ready"), is essentialy a Mickay's production. It is only that Fred Brown ran out of money to press up the record, so he gave Armen Boladian half the publishing rights (Bridgeport Music shared with Brown's & Hunter's Brohun Music) to finance it. So, it came out on Ring (a label joint owned by the two partners. As to the 3 rare records: I've never seen any of the 3. But Big George's Mickay's 3011 IS definitely Brown and Hunter's Detroit Mickay's 1962-64 label, and does exist. It is on "Soulfulkindamusic's discography of the label. The LB Tully and The Other Kind, I have never seen nor heard of, and get the feeling they are somewhat later than 1964, and they might not even be Brown's and hunter's Detroit label, or, they might be a later incarnation of the label, after it had been shut down in mid 1964.

There are a few very good songs. But most are fairly uninteresting to me. In addition, I heard a couple recordings that sound like 1963 or '64, or. I just don't believe they were recorded in 1966. I think they were, somehow, not put in in their correct year, and were just thrown into this year, because they were found recently, and Universal wants to keep the rights to them.

My father's family came from Den Haag. The woman who was the model for De Visservrouw (famous metal statue on the beach at Scheveningen) was my great aunt, by marriage. I reside there part of each year (more than anywhere else-I also spend time in Denmark, Germany, Canada and USA). I work for Sanoma Uitgevers, bv. (Dutch Disney publications), as well as Danish and Swedish Disney Pub. (Egmont Serieforleget), and German Disney Pub. (Ehapa Verlag). I have worked for Dutch Disney since 1984. I lived in Den Haag (Archipelbuurt) from 1986-2004, and a village in Nord Holland since. Spreek je goed Hollands dan?

¡Feliz Navidad y Prospero Año Nuevo mis compadres!

Hebben jullie een Prettige Kerstdagen en gelukkig Nieuwjaar!

"Christmas Time" - Jan Bradley, "Gee Whiz, It's Christmas" - Carla Thomas, "Some Day At Christmas" - Stevie Wonder, "Christmas, Baby Please Come Home", Darlene Love, "This Christmas" - Donny Hathaway, "I'm Going Christmas Shopping" - Horace Williams, "Merry Christmas" - Cameos, "Sleigh Ride"- Ronettes, "Winter Wonderland"- Darlene Love

It really sounds like a super clean recording, unlike the "noisier" sounding Mercury store stocker.

Good to learn that Tom is still with us.

Theoretically, you could purchase the words and music from the music publishing company. Despite Florence Greenberg being deceased, someone owns Flomar Music, as its rights have still been renewed with BMI up to today. The main business of music publishing was originally to sell sheet music with lyrics to people who wanted to play and sing it for recreation. Originally, this song was published by Barry Despenza, but, he sold half the publishing rights to Flomar, in the Wand pressing and distribution deal. And, i think that only Flomar has been renewing the rights for the past many years. So, they probably own full rights now.

This recording is pretty muddy, too. I have it on both labels, and it is tough to hear about half the words. And the lead singer has good diction, and she is singing in Standard American English, NOT Ebonics! (which wouldn't have been a problem for me, as I grew up (more or less) in The Chicago Ghetto), but may have otherwise been a problem for a British listener. The other factor is that there are not very many different words used in this song. I realise now, that I've been listening to it for just about 50 years, without knowing about half the words. But, then, I've always admitted that I've never cared about words in songs, only the overall sound. It doesn't matter, in this case, as the gist of this song is clear, - the young lady doesn't want her lover to leave her.

I lived in L.A. from 1966-72. I've seen hundreds of the gold and only a much smaller amount of the orange (a ratio of about 5 to 1). I don't really know which came first, but I didn't see the orange until a year or 2 after having seen the gold. I got the impression that the orange was a 2nd pressing, rather than a concurrent pressing plant difference (perhaps one or 2 years later).

Interesting that the pressing plant, that pressed the DJ with the new label design, also added the recording master number to the label.

So the one pressing plant using the old design for 1024-1026, after the other plants had the new label design for 1024-1026 was correct. The new style started at 1024, and the old style ended with 1026.

I guess none of the French and Belgian shaggers who also look in on this forum have it or a scanner, eh?

Why is that unlikely? I bought it when the record was released.

Even back in the late '60s I saw a lot more white DJs, at a rate of about 4 to 1.

If you are referring to Musicor 1025, "That Same Old Song"/"Where Have You Been", I have a white DJ of it. I've E-mailed you 300 dpi scans.

No. There were several Sonny Dayes. I believe that the one on Ring-O was an East Coaster.

I would say that The passions' is a LOT rarer, as The Amazers was a minor hit, and The Passions never charted or got any substantial radio play.

I wouldn't think so. It was distributed nationally with big pressing volumes, and it was a minor Soul hit in Chicago, and probably several other cities.

That was a very common record with several different regional pressing plant press runs. I can't imagine why anyone would boot it.