Robbk

Isn't it way too much of a coincidence that Fred Brown and Joe Hunter produced arranged and recorded two people with such similar voices who were both Detroit artists. If the voices don't sound exactly alike, we must realise that "Toy Soldier" was recorded in 1963, Lee Gates' Enterprise record in 1965, and the Louis Curry cuts in 1967 and 1968. He got a little older, and more experienced in singing. But, the tones in people's voices are unique, and inherited from their genes. Which is why twins sound almost identical, and siblings and children and parents share a familial tone. That is why Dee Dee and Dionne Warwick sound so close, and even cousins Cissy and Whitney Houston have voices very similar to the Warwicks. I hear that unique familial tone in both singers. So, to me, I would say that they are no further removed than brothers. Which leads me to my original theory that Lee Gates on Enterprise was Harry Gates' brother. But that theory was thrown out when my friend, Detroit Soul producer and record masterer, Ron Murphy was told that Harry Gates was Harry Lee Gates, and had gone by his middle name on the Enterprise release. But, perhaps Louis Curry is Harry Gates' brother, using a stage name? Brown and Hunter would have met him through his brother, or Gates' fellow group members. I think you'll have to admit that Fred Brown and Joe Hunter being his production team and being Harry Gates', as well, is too much of a coincidence. Also, Harry Gates "disappeared" just when Louis Curry came on the scene. That's too much of a coincidence for me. How do you explain "H. Gates" being a credited co-writer on more than half of Louis Curry's songs, if Gates is not either Curry, himself, or Curry's brother? Still, Gates disappearing as a singer, just about the time Curry first appears, is too much of a coincidence for me to believe they are brothers. Singers voices change a bit through their careers. But for me, that one unique individual tone is there in both Gates' known Dramatics, Caravelles and Lee Gates leads, and Louis Curry's recordings. The only thing I propose that might be far-fetched is that Gates might also have been the lead singer of Motown's (Miracle's) Equadors. The voices sound close enough, at least on "Someone To Call My Own" to be possible. And it is really odd that a singer with such an unique and beautiful voice just made that one 1961 record, and nobody on the Detroit '60s scene knows who were the members of that group. Why did that super singer not make other recordings? I think he did, leading Starmaker's Caravelles in 1963, and making the Enterprise record in '65, and the Reel record in '67, and several M-S records in '67 and '68.

Not many lee gates or Louis Curry fans here, eh?

Detroit '60s Soul artist and songwriter, Harry Lee Gates, lead singer of The Dramatics on Crackerjack, The Caravelles on Starmaker, and solo artist, "Lee" Gates on Enterprise, also seems to be Louis Curry on Detroit's M-S and Reel Records. ALL of his cuts on those two Detroit late 1960s labels were Fred Brown/Joe Hunter productions published by their Brohun Music, and had Gates as a co-writer of the songs. Listen to "A Toast To You" and "Captivated" on M-S Records and "You're Just Plain Nice" on Reel Records. Gates' voice is unmistakable. I can't believe I didn't notice that all these years. I wonder if he was also the lead singer of Motown's (Miracle) mystery group, The Equadors. "You're My Desire" sounds like he might not be the lead. But, "Someone To Call My Own" sounds a lot like him. What do you all think?

Kim Weston - "You're Just The Kind of Guy" - MGM Mary Wells - "Me Without You", "Why Don't You Let Yourself Go", "Everlovin' Boy"- 20th Century Fox, -"Dear Lover", "Such A Sweet Thing" - ATCO Four Tops - "Ain't No Woman Like The One I Got" - Dunhill J.J. Barnes - "Baby Please Come Back Home", "Sweet Sherry", - Groovesville, "Our Love Is In The Pocket" - Revilot Parliaments - "That Was My Girl", "Heart Trouble" - Golden World -"Don't Be Sore At Me", "I Can Feel The Ice Melting" - Revilot Spinners - "I'll Be Around", "Could It Be I'm Falling In Love" - Atlantic Steve Mancha (Clyde Wilson while with Motown) - "Don't make me a Story Teller" - Groovesville Tony Hester - "Just Can't Leave You" - Giant Herman Griffin - "Mr. Heartbreak" - Double-L, "Dream Girl" - Mercury Satintones (2nd Group) - "I'm The Playboy" - SonBert (as Pyramids) Timothy Wilson (of Serenaders) - "Just another Guy (on a String)", "Pigtails" - Buddah Henry Lumpkin - "I'm A Walkin' For J.F.K. - Fairmount Patrice Holloway - "Ecstasy", "Love and Desire" - Capitol Brenda Holloway - "Let Love Grow" - Music Merchant Flo Ballard - "Love Ain't Love" - ABC

I wish I would have had the nerve to talk to the Motown old-timers and ask them about their pre-Motown days and the early years at Motown, while I worked there.

Tangerine was founded in 1962, based on Ray Charles' new contract agreement with them. ABC-Paramount had some ownership participation due to their marketing and distribution of the label, but Charles owned most of it, and ran it as chief executive producer and A&R man. To leave association with them, he dissolved Tangerine Records in 1973, and formed Crossover Records, with many of his Tangerine staff and contract artists rejoining him.

Columbia was pretty good, mostly because of Okeh, their R&B and Soul subsidiary. But both Columbia and Epic also had both R&B and Soul on their labels, and their Date Records subsidiary had a lot of good Soul. RCA had a lot of good R&B and Soul on it, including The Isley Brothers, Sam Cooke, Brook Benton, and later The Pied Piper artists. Their Groove and Vik subsidiaries had a lot of good R&B, and Groove went on to have a fair amount of good Soul. Mercury, had a tremendous amount of great R&B and Soul on it, Wing and Emarcy had a lot of great R&B, and its later subsidiaries, Smash, Philips, Blue Rock and Fontana had a lot of great Soul. Capitol and its subsidiaries, Tower and Uptown, had a lot of great Soul. Decca didn't have much Soul, and neither did its subsidiary, Coral. But, as stated above, its other subsidiary, Brunswick, made up for that. Later, when Universal bought US Decca, and Uni and Revue were added, a lot of good Soul was produced. Same after their purchase of Kapp Records. MGM didn't really have much R&B or Soul, but its subsidiary Cub Records did, as did Verve, once they took it over. Warner Brothers and its Reprise subsidiary didn't have much R&B or Soul on them. But, its Soul subsidiary, Loma Records did. United Artists always had a fair share of R&B and Soul, and added more with their purchases of liberty, which had already bought Imperial, Minit and Aladdin. ABC always had some R&B, but had a great amount of Soul produced by Johnny Pate's crew in Chicago, and having its New York office purchase productions from all around USA. They had loads of subsidiaries putting out R&B (APT), and Soul (Bluesway, Tangerine, Riverside, Battle, Impulse).

That single word doesn't look like "Darrell" or "Darrell Banks".

You are correct. It was a different take. I heard it years ago. But, I, myself, don't have a soundfile of it.

Just as I guessed, early '80's, right during the heyday of Airwave. And a Detroit record, too!

Wow! That's really good! "(Girl) You Should Have Been A Man" ? It reminds me of some of the 1980s songs we heard while we were doing our thing at Airwave Records.

I don't use Facebook. Any chance you could upload at least a snippet of it onto this thread as an MP3?

Argo was a Chess subsidiary. While Argo existed, there were no Chess company sleeves. They started at just about the time Chess changed the name of its Argo subsidiary's company name to "Cadet Records". The first Chess sleeves were blue and white, and listed Chess, Checker and Cadet Records. AFO Records were sold in Dover Records sleeves when they were distributed by Dover Records. They were sold in plain white or brown sleeves while distributed by Sue Records. AGP Records were distributed by Bell Records, so they were sold in Amy-Mala Bell distribution sleeves (e.g. "Distributed by The Amy-Mala Bell Group"). Audio Arts was also distributed by The Amy-Mala Bell Group, and so was sold in those covers. When it was NOT distributed by Bell, it was sold in plain brown sleeves. Arctic Records was distributed by Jamie-Guyden Distributors, so, they were sold in Jamie/Guyden sleeves. Action (UK) had it's own company covers. Alon was sold mostly in plain brown or plain white sleeves. Alithia was mostly sold in plain white sleeves, but, for a short time, I believe they were distributed by Spring Records, and sold in Spring Records sleeves.

I should get Spyder to sign mine, and maybe Dennis, too! By the way, Dennis Coffey just made The R&B Hall of Fame!

Yes, Dee Edwards' birth name was Doris.

Rob Moss?

I've got Thelma no catalogue #, ZTSC 82335 and 82336, The Distants, "Answer Me"/"Save Me From This Misery", from June, 1962. It has the entire group's first name signatures, including Richard Street, James Weaver, Albert Harrell, Johnny, and Alphonso "Tex" Galloway.

Nice foto's of birds flying. We have several different kinds of marshbirds where I live (in Holland, Denmark, Bavaria and Manitoba) including storks, cranes, loons, herons, wild geese, coots and mallards. I see lots of scenes that would make great shots. In all my 71 years, I'd never owned a camera despite traveling all over The 3rd World working for The United Nations for 20 years, and working for Disney in 4 European countries since then. I finally got a camera (of sorts) a few years ago, when my new desktop and laptop computers had them included. And, a couple of years ago, I was forced to get my first mobile telefoons, which have a camera function. So, now I have a "portable camera". But, I don't really know how to use it, and doubt it would be good for outdoor scenes (probably limited "screen width". I've only taken about 10 snapshots in my life, with other people's cameras (mostly Oriental tourists asking me to take their pictures in front of some tourist attraction).

I don't know the relative numbers existing today in The NS market, but back in the mid '60s, when the record was out, I saw10 stockers for every white DJ.

Both production sound very "southern", and nothing like the recordings I've heard from Saginaw, Michigan and upstate Michigan. Saginaw may be an Algonkian word that still survives among some Native American tribes in Tennessee, as well as in Michigan. There are Native North American tribes in Alaska and Canada, whose Athabaskan language is related to The Aztecs in Central Mexico, The Apaches and The Navajos. So, some words used as place names in one US state, could also be used in another on the other side of the country, or even the continent. I'm guessing that that Saginaw record has nothing, whatsover, to do with Michigan, or that the label owner may have come from Saginaw Michigan. The Detroit label was located in The Greater Boston, Massachusetts Area, and had no apparent connection to Detroit, Michigan.

I've got it. I'm dead tired now. I'll put up a scan when I wake up in the morning.

You wouldn't have liked winters in Winnipeg, way back before Global warming, then. We used to have 5 months with snow on the ground! We used to travel south to Minnesota to warm up!!!

Beautiful! Isn't Snowdonia from whence Groucho Marx was supposed to have come in one of The Marx Brothers' '30s films???

Not quite UK only. It was released on a US Okeh Juke Box EP.

Ha! Ha! The last year I bought as many as 10 records was probably 1988!