Robbk

One more from Detroit, plus random:

More Detroit:

Moving from Chicago to Detroit (already one on previous post):

And more:

And yet More:

Here are more:

Here are some of my hand-made record company label jackets:

I have the 2:57 version. Mine has only 222821 - S etched into the trailer. No other markings. Does yours have exactly the same? 3:24 is awfully long for that era. I wonder if that wasn't a misprint. Have you ever timed it? Wildly incorrect posted times are fairly common.

Hi David, That's very interesting that Gino owned a wig store. With him having a release on Dewtroit's W.I.G. Records ("Romeo"), I have to think that Wig was his label, or, that he was, at least, a part owner.

What???? You don't appreciate the futuristic instrumental genius of the Altrasonics???? Shame on you! I'd even take The Atlantics over these guys. Gino got the college crowds because his back-up bands were their classmates!

My favourite by Gino is his first release: "I'm A Coward", then 2nd is "Come Monkey With Me", 3rd is "Romeo". But, really, I like almost everything he recorded.

I NEVER carried around a list of what I had when digging for records. When I was first starting out, it was fairly easy to remember which records I had already bought. But after I had over 3,000-4,000, I started to pick up duplicates. That was okay, because I didn't always remember what condition mine was in, and could trade duplicates with other collectors for records I wanted. After I had over 10,000 and lots of different label runs, just missing a few numbers, here or there, it was harder to remember which particular obscure records I had and didn't have by prolific artists. I often passed up a record I had thought I already bought, because I already had over 10 records by him, her or them on the same label, or I had seen the record many times in other collectors' collections or in shops when the price was too high for me to buy it ( I bought so many 45s that I didn't like to spend more than 25¢ or 33¢ on most, records, and would only spend $1 on very rare records, as I bought thousands at 5¢ and 10 ¢ in thrift stores, and hundreds from record shop bargain bins at 10, 5, 4, and 3 for a Dollar). So, I often passed up records I already had, continuing to think I already had it, as I had seen it so many times. Or, I bought the same record 10 times, forgetting that I had already upgraded the condition of the first one I had. I had a few Platters' Mercury records which I had 7 to 10 copies. Same with a few Brook Bentons, Flamingos on End, Dell Vikings on Dot, and the like. They were mostly R&B/Pop crossover acts, but those records I couldn't keep track on were obscure non- charters. But, unlike your case, I could always trade them off, and they had cost me next to nothing, anyway. So, no harm done. But it was maddening, nonetheless, hoping to fill in the missing records, and continuing to buy records I already had, in their stead. After about 5 years of collecting (age 12) I already had too many records to take a list of what I had. And I wanted to obtain ALL decent sounding R&B, Blues, Gospel and Jazz (that was before "Soul" started), so it would have been pointless for me to carry around a "wants list" with me while scrounging for records.

No. I just made an assumption, as you didn't refer to which question Jackson could answer. Now I know we can find out if Curry and Gates are related.

Why would McKinley Jackson know who was in a totally obscure Motown group from 1961, when he was barely in his teens then, and hadn't worked for Motown by that time? And if he DOES know, how is it that that information never got to anyone with Universal/Motown or into the collector Motown/Soul historians community?

I suppose Dave was asked long ago if he knew who the members of The Equadors were.

Any chance they could be brothers or cousins? I recognise a familial tone shared by them (as cousin Cissy Houston has with The Warwick sisters).

Isn't it way too much of a coincidence that Fred Brown and Joe Hunter produced arranged and recorded two people with such similar voices who were both Detroit artists. If the voices don't sound exactly alike, we must realise that "Toy Soldier" was recorded in 1963, Lee Gates' Enterprise record in 1965, and the Louis Curry cuts in 1967 and 1968. He got a little older, and more experienced in singing. But, the tones in people's voices are unique, and inherited from their genes. Which is why twins sound almost identical, and siblings and children and parents share a familial tone. That is why Dee Dee and Dionne Warwick sound so close, and even cousins Cissy and Whitney Houston have voices very similar to the Warwicks. I hear that unique familial tone in both singers. So, to me, I would say that they are no further removed than brothers. Which leads me to my original theory that Lee Gates on Enterprise was Harry Gates' brother. But that theory was thrown out when my friend, Detroit Soul producer and record masterer, Ron Murphy was told that Harry Gates was Harry Lee Gates, and had gone by his middle name on the Enterprise release. But, perhaps Louis Curry is Harry Gates' brother, using a stage name? Brown and Hunter would have met him through his brother, or Gates' fellow group members. I think you'll have to admit that Fred Brown and Joe Hunter being his production team and being Harry Gates', as well, is too much of a coincidence. Also, Harry Gates "disappeared" just when Louis Curry came on the scene. That's too much of a coincidence for me. How do you explain "H. Gates" being a credited co-writer on more than half of Louis Curry's songs, if Gates is not either Curry, himself, or Curry's brother? Still, Gates disappearing as a singer, just about the time Curry first appears, is too much of a coincidence for me to believe they are brothers. Singers voices change a bit through their careers. But for me, that one unique individual tone is there in both Gates' known Dramatics, Caravelles and Lee Gates leads, and Louis Curry's recordings. The only thing I propose that might be far-fetched is that Gates might also have been the lead singer of Motown's (Miracle's) Equadors. The voices sound close enough, at least on "Someone To Call My Own" to be possible. And it is really odd that a singer with such an unique and beautiful voice just made that one 1961 record, and nobody on the Detroit '60s scene knows who were the members of that group. Why did that super singer not make other recordings? I think he did, leading Starmaker's Caravelles in 1963, and making the Enterprise record in '65, and the Reel record in '67, and several M-S records in '67 and '68.

Not many lee gates or Louis Curry fans here, eh?

Detroit '60s Soul artist and songwriter, Harry Lee Gates, lead singer of The Dramatics on Crackerjack, The Caravelles on Starmaker, and solo artist, "Lee" Gates on Enterprise, also seems to be Louis Curry on Detroit's M-S and Reel Records. ALL of his cuts on those two Detroit late 1960s labels were Fred Brown/Joe Hunter productions published by their Brohun Music, and had Gates as a co-writer of the songs. Listen to "A Toast To You" and "Captivated" on M-S Records and "You're Just Plain Nice" on Reel Records. Gates' voice is unmistakable. I can't believe I didn't notice that all these years. I wonder if he was also the lead singer of Motown's (Miracle) mystery group, The Equadors. "You're My Desire" sounds like he might not be the lead. But, "Someone To Call My Own" sounds a lot like him. What do you all think?

Kim Weston - "You're Just The Kind of Guy" - MGM Mary Wells - "Me Without You", "Why Don't You Let Yourself Go", "Everlovin' Boy"- 20th Century Fox, -"Dear Lover", "Such A Sweet Thing" - ATCO Four Tops - "Ain't No Woman Like The One I Got" - Dunhill J.J. Barnes - "Baby Please Come Back Home", "Sweet Sherry", - Groovesville, "Our Love Is In The Pocket" - Revilot Parliaments - "That Was My Girl", "Heart Trouble" - Golden World -"Don't Be Sore At Me", "I Can Feel The Ice Melting" - Revilot Spinners - "I'll Be Around", "Could It Be I'm Falling In Love" - Atlantic Steve Mancha (Clyde Wilson while with Motown) - "Don't make me a Story Teller" - Groovesville Tony Hester - "Just Can't Leave You" - Giant Herman Griffin - "Mr. Heartbreak" - Double-L, "Dream Girl" - Mercury Satintones (2nd Group) - "I'm The Playboy" - SonBert (as Pyramids) Timothy Wilson (of Serenaders) - "Just another Guy (on a String)", "Pigtails" - Buddah Henry Lumpkin - "I'm A Walkin' For J.F.K. - Fairmount Patrice Holloway - "Ecstasy", "Love and Desire" - Capitol Brenda Holloway - "Let Love Grow" - Music Merchant Flo Ballard - "Love Ain't Love" - ABC

I wish I would have had the nerve to talk to the Motown old-timers and ask them about their pre-Motown days and the early years at Motown, while I worked there.

Tangerine was founded in 1962, based on Ray Charles' new contract agreement with them. ABC-Paramount had some ownership participation due to their marketing and distribution of the label, but Charles owned most of it, and ran it as chief executive producer and A&R man. To leave association with them, he dissolved Tangerine Records in 1973, and formed Crossover Records, with many of his Tangerine staff and contract artists rejoining him.

Columbia was pretty good, mostly because of Okeh, their R&B and Soul subsidiary. But both Columbia and Epic also had both R&B and Soul on their labels, and their Date Records subsidiary had a lot of good Soul. RCA had a lot of good R&B and Soul on it, including The Isley Brothers, Sam Cooke, Brook Benton, and later The Pied Piper artists. Their Groove and Vik subsidiaries had a lot of good R&B, and Groove went on to have a fair amount of good Soul. Mercury, had a tremendous amount of great R&B and Soul on it, Wing and Emarcy had a lot of great R&B, and its later subsidiaries, Smash, Philips, Blue Rock and Fontana had a lot of great Soul. Capitol and its subsidiaries, Tower and Uptown, had a lot of great Soul. Decca didn't have much Soul, and neither did its subsidiary, Coral. But, as stated above, its other subsidiary, Brunswick, made up for that. Later, when Universal bought US Decca, and Uni and Revue were added, a lot of good Soul was produced. Same after their purchase of Kapp Records. MGM didn't really have much R&B or Soul, but its subsidiary Cub Records did, as did Verve, once they took it over. Warner Brothers and its Reprise subsidiary didn't have much R&B or Soul on them. But, its Soul subsidiary, Loma Records did. United Artists always had a fair share of R&B and Soul, and added more with their purchases of liberty, which had already bought Imperial, Minit and Aladdin. ABC always had some R&B, but had a great amount of Soul produced by Johnny Pate's crew in Chicago, and having its New York office purchase productions from all around USA. They had loads of subsidiaries putting out R&B (APT), and Soul (Bluesway, Tangerine, Riverside, Battle, Impulse).

That single word doesn't look like "Darrell" or "Darrell Banks".

You are correct. It was a different take. I heard it years ago. But, I, myself, don't have a soundfile of it.