Robbk

I'm sure that MOST of them are deceased now. We had a scan of Lonnette's sleeve on this very forum, not all that long ago (maybe within the last 2-3 years? Hard for me to gage the last many years because it flies by so fast. I think someone just told me something within the last year, and find out that was 10 years ago.

All I can say is, if it DOES exist, I'd guess it's a LOT rarer the Lonette's picture sleeve, which I've seen probably 75 copies. I've never seen nor heard of an Art Posey picture sleeve. And to put it in context, I used to go to distributors in Chicago once a week from 1965-72, and drove to Detroit to look through record warehouses, record shops, discount store record racks and piles, thrift and junk stores, and even furniture stores that carried used records two Saturdays a month. I must have looked through several million 45s in all those years, and saw a LOT of both of those records. But I never saw the Art Posey picture sleeve. I knew a lot of the big Detroit Soul collectors. I never saw it in any of their collections. I knew Art. He recorded for our Airwave Records. I should have asked him for one!!! Ha!Ha!

No. I read your comment, as I did all the comments before my post. I'm just old and can't remember almost any short term happenings. If I live 30 more years, I might remember it THEN. I can remember everything from 50-70 years ago. But I can't even remember what I wrote at the start of this post!

Kim Weston - "Do Like I do" and "I'll Never See My Love Again" Fabulous Apollos - "The One Alone" and "Everything Bad....." Jimmy Ruffin - "In The Neighborhood" and "On The Avenue" Just to name a couple. There were many done at Motown, but also a lot by other, smaller Detroit Soul labels, as well. Lot's of Chicago and L.A. labels did that, too.

Hi Ady, Actually, I must have had a senile moment when I "remembered" wrongly that the M. Jackson on the Maurci label was Mckinley Jackson. It was Maurice Jackson of Chicago. So, there is NO Detroit connection to trace from Maurci to Dave Hamilton, at least not from the Maurci label credits. We'd have to talk to someone who worked with Gene Chandler or Symtec Simmons to find out if they had any connections to Detroit people.

This one is interesting. I wonder who the connection is. Popcorn Wylie worked on "Going Back To Detroit", and knew Jonny Mae Mathews from the beginning. He recorded for her on her Northern Records in 1960. Maybe she leased it from him for a token amount.

Frank Brown later, using one of his earlier tracks on his same group, with a better song.

Are you saying that Motown used VJ's original backing tracks, or that VJ. used Motown's? Which one was recorded first?

No surprise here, Dave Hamilton using his own bg tracks on 2 of his own productions of 2 of his own artists.

Detroit bg tracks bounced around that city quite a bit during the 1960s. Stewart Ames' J&W cut was first, and likely was originally recorded with Ed Wingate's money. Jock Mitchell worked with Harry Balk at Impact Records when Balk's lmpact/Inferno were distributed by Wingate's Golden World. So, Mitchell, like Duke Browner, John Rhys, and others of Balk's crew, likely had access to tapes at Golden World. Maybe he took that to Golden Hit? - Or told his new boss there, that he liked that track, and wanted to sing to it, and Golden Hit's owner leased the instrumental from Wingate for a modest fee?

Both were L.A. releases, done by people who had worked together in The Keymen group of labels. Julian Brown wrote both, and Fred Smith produced both. So, clearly, Smith just used his own track on 2 different releases, by different artist, with different lyrics.

Kent Harris worked some with Hal Davis and Marc Gordon at times, during the same time they were operating Jobete Music's L.A. Office. I don't know for sure if he wrote any songs that were bought by Jobete. But, he certainly had access to hearing the tracks. Atkins' cut is a different recording, using different musicians, likely recorded in a different studio. So, Harris may have just remembered the riffs and changes, and written this similar song. It's definitely not direct use of the same tracks.

That's only one musical phrase repeated. No more than plagiarism than in thousands of songs. Not like the entire background verbatim.

Yes. But the owner who produced the original recording session, Dave Hamilton, said he knew nothing about Maurci, and didn't lease the tracks to anyone. Maurci was owned by Gene Chandler and Symtec Simmons. There's no evidence of any Detroit names on Maurci. All the rest of their releases recordings (Five Jades, etc., and even the other Monique cuts) sound like Chicago. So no way to find the connection there.

Probably. But, I bet they got a fair amount of Belgian, French and German sales, as well. Maybe a couple UK NS. too.

To take advantage of the growing popularity of The Motown Sound and the new growing popularity of Detroit Soul in The UK? It does seem a bit far fetched. It should have been released in The UK on a demo in 1965, or else for The Northern Soul market, perhaps in 1974 or after.

I saw The Volumes' scan too. It looked like it was real. I didn't see any signs of a Photoshop job.

Yes. The Dream Girls on Big Top, and Bobbie, solo on American Arts, were a Detroit group produced (and managed?) by Harry Balk.

Look at the map of Michigan. Battle Creek, where Jackey was stationed, is in the far southwest, far away from The Detroit Metro area. Lansing is in the south central part of the state, also a fair distance outside of The Detroit Area. The fact that Detroit radio stations didn't play Jackey's song, but a Lansing station DID, tells me that Jackey was doing his own promotion, and that the Lansing DJ probably knew him from his Lansing gigs. I don't remember him appearing in Detroit venues after "Johnny & Jackey" split up. I don't think Revilot put more than the slightest marketing push behind Jackey's record. The probably ran a small pressing run for just Detroit. And when it didn't sell well, and they couldn't get regular local airplay, they dropped promoting it. I'd bet that Jackey gave away, or sold copies at his gigs in Lansing. And THAT and poor storage conditions resulted in the many "beat" copies showing up. I didn't know what Revilot 208 was until about 1970, when I first saw a company list of scheduled releases. So, I did place it on my wants list then. But, I stopped circulating my wants list in about 1977. And the stored stock wasn't discovered until about 1980.

As I stated above, that record was just not seen in the shops in mid 1967. I think that a small stock of them were "discovered" in later times (after 1980) (maybe by a NS Brit) from whoever from Revilot "inherited" them (perhaps Don Davis?), and then entered the NS market. We North Americans never saw them. I'd like to hear from a Detroiter from that period, to see if he saw any. Ron Murphy is no longer with us. Maybe someone should ask Cappy (if any of you have contact with him). I'd ask on Soulful Detroit. But. it seems that none of the old record collectors post there anymore. Sadly, I seem to be the only one.

I was located in both L.A. and Chicago when Revilot 208 was "released". I never saw it, and I looked through literally millions of 45s. I listened to Soul stations KGFJ in L.A., and WVON in Chicago. It got NO airplay on either station. I had friends in record shops in both cities, and worked in South L.A.'s Dolphin's of Hollywood, which had ALL the Soul records that existed in L.A. (all that got to California). If Revilot 208 came to California at all, I'd have seen it and known about it. It never got to Chicago. It must have had a very small single pressing, only locally in Detroit, and then nothing more. I used to drive to Detroit one Saturday a month to look for records in the bargain bins of Soul/R&B record shops, thrift stores, junk stores, and discount stores that rad 45 record dump sales. I never saw the record once- Not even in any of my Detroit record collector friends' collections! Believe me, it always was, and IS a dead rare record. Those few around were probably all found later, from insiders, who grabbed them from Solid Hitbound's stock. That record never got into shops outside Detroit. And if it got into shops there, there were only a few handful, if that.

I've never heard of any purely Liberty Soul CD compilation. Any Liberty-related CD would likely have a lot more cuts from Imperial, and Minit (and, possibly United Artists, and its VEEP and DCP subsidiaries. Not all that much Soul music appeared on the actual Liberty label.

I find duplicates, triplicates of records I wasn't sure I had, and find I am still missing certain releases I thought I had for 40 years, and had passed up buying for 1000 times thinking I had it. And MUCH of that time was BEFORE I became senile with long-term memory problems!

Yes, but on the individual Soul fan's taste - not given the prestige and nostalgic value of having danced to it at clubs many years ago. There are American Soul fans buying US 1960s Soul music of all different music styles and speeds/tempos. Their connections to that music are different, so different records will have different values to them for different reasons. But that doesn't mean they love them any less. Some of us have been buying them since they were released, and some, even before they were released. I was buying Black American music on US and Canadian labels from almost the beginning of the 1950s. I didn't stop buying it when they started calling it "Soul music". I like many of the classic NS club hits very much, am ambivalent about many others, dislike a fair amount, and HATE some, just like my taste goes with ALL music. I like music more for it's melody, singing quality, sound of the instruments and songwriting structure more than its tempo, or beat. THAT's where my taste differs from the classic NS criteria (and, thus, typical NS taste).

Doesn't it depend upon the copyright laws in each nation, and when art items become public domain (50 or 75 years or if the artist and children of the artist are all deceased before then)? Are you asking about UK rights (which now may or may not be different from European rights), or USA rights?