Robbk

The top 2 of the 4 "pensioners" had grossed £178,000 and £163,000 respectively. Working out of their homes, I'd guess their overhead was less than 10% of that (probably significantly less). So, I'd guess they netted about £150,000 and £140,000. I don't feel sorry for them getting 10 months and 8 months in prison. They stole large amounts of money from buyers, and the creators of the product, and/or their children. Why should we allow selfish, uncaring, nasty people like that, who don't respect other beings' rights to gain the fruits of their labour get away with such actions with just a slap on the wrist? That's only a short bit away from condoning it.

All they had to do to avoid that was to not try to cheat and steal from other people (some of whom might also be pensioners)! I have pity for them only in the sense that they feel bad enough inside to become so selfish and needy that they forget that the people that they steal from are being hurt by their actions. I feel lucky that I don't feel so sad inside, like they do. BUT, I do think that they should serve time in jail if the amount they took is more than £250-300 or so. Losing that hurts people. Less than that amount, they should be made to return that amount to the injured party, PLUS an extra amount for putting them through the experience. They should also be put on probation (checked upon), and made to do social work (helping sick and old people) as penance, for several months, to let them know there will be consequences (losing their precious personal time), and to also feel what is like to help others (give, instead of take). Maybe that might even alert them to the fact that THEY, themselves, aren't the only person in The World. And that others are worse off, and helping them can make one feel accomplished. Deep down it might help them to feel good that maybe someone else MIGHT want to help THEM, when they will need help, later in life.

Easy to figure out. Dore's owner, Lew Bedell repressed his records for "oldies" sales every so often. There was a constant market for Sweet Soul oldies among the mainstream African American and Chicano communities in both Southern and Northern California, as well as sales in specialised scenes, such as The Lowriders, and even some sales from record shops selling general pop music. The different label designs represent different periods in time when Dore changed its design. Lucky for you, I was located mostly (7-8 months per year) in L.A. during 1965-72). The plain blue background represents 1958-1964, and into early 1965 (with a few periods with Monarch finding and using them posthumously in 1966, after the lined design started). The lined design is fairly rare, and was used in some stray, nonconsecutive periods from 1964-67. The purple period was later. I think it was only used in the 1970s (maybe it started in 1969?). I don't remember seeing it until after I stopped buying current records (after 1972). If the matrix numbers were all Monarch/ALCO delta codes, then it is clear that the colour differences just represent later pressings. Any deviation from that rule would be the pressing plant finding old blanks with obsolete designs that they had forgotten to use, or Bedell finding same, and sending those to Monarch. IF the design differences you have DON'T all have the Monarch/ALCO delta, then the differences MIGHT be due to Bedell sending different designs to different plants, or a non-local (non-Southern California plant printing up new blanks using an old design. Do your three different designs ALL have the Monarch/ALCO delta? The LJB code numbers being the same would indicate that the cut takes are the same. If different, then the cut takes are different.

I would guess that SOME weird-thinking record collectors would rather pay the trifling sum of £5 more, to have a semi-rare '70s boot(which was made in small quantities, and very few are currently available), rather than a currently available issue, that ANYONE can have, at a moments notice (e.g. the '70s boot is a 40+ year old "collectable" (albeit not very valuable), for those reasons.

Isn't there a minimum amount of money obtained by fraud or theft that draws the line between committing a misdemeanor and a felony under UK law? That's the way it works in Canada and USA. I don't know the current amounts in Canada and USA, as it rises over time due to inflation. But, misdemeanor levels usually include a punishing fine, probation, and possibly public social penance work, - but no jail time. Felonious monetary levels of theft or fraud usually DO result in a prison sentence. So, I would expect a similar situation in The UK. If someone were to make up a fake high-value NS record facsimile, and fool some well-known authority/expert into declaring that it is a genuine original, and then, sell it for more £500, he SHOULD go to prison. That is stealing an honest hard-working average person's sustenance. Even though that person has made the choice to use that money for a seemingly non-essential purpose, he has already sacrificed something that an average person would think is "essential", to gather together this "mad money". There SHOULD be a substantial deterrent to keep people from hurting innocent people in this manner. The fairly small risk of being caught by the police and being fined is not enough to stop most crooks. A potential prison sentence for trying to defraud someone of £500 probably IS enough to make a reasonable proportion of the still rational selfish would-be defrauders decide not to commit that crime, or, at least to think twice about it. I think we need that deterrent. Stealing a loaf of bread to feed one's children SHOULDN'T send some one to prison (or the galleys ). I've never earned much money. So, I resent selfish, mean, nasty, crooked, sick people trying to fleece me of what little I have. There SHOULD be punishment to deter the amoral, anti-social, sick-os from taking upstanding citizens' hard-earned boodles. I'll get off my soapbox now((former Hyde Park dissident that I am), and bleeding heart liberal ), and let the fascists take over (and propose the pillory, the stocks, hanging the offenders on meathooks or danging hung by piano wire, and marked forever with the mark "RT" (Record Thief) burned into their skin with a branding iron, or being fed to the lions in the closest zoo).

Timmy Willis was DEFINITELY a Detroiter. I know lifelong Detroiters, who knew him well, and he was living in Detroit all along. Timothy (Timmie/T.J. Williams) was a New Yorker.

I think that's a good possibility. The two voices sound quite similar.

Well, I was just giving my opinion. We have no proof it WASN'T recorded in Detroit. Just because I've never seen the name "Timmie Williams" associated with any Detroit productions doesn't mean he couldn't be a Detroiter. Balk and Micahnik also recorded some sessions in Detroit (Volumes' American Arts and Twirl productions, as well as other Twirl sessions). And, just because I say the recording doesn't SOUND like Detroit, doesn't make it a certainty. We need to hear whether it was recorded in Detroit or New York from an inside source, or someone who has seen its documentation. All I can say is that if someone placed a gun to my head and said "Was it New York or Detroit?-if you're wrong I shoot!", I would guess New York. But, if I wasn't forced, and could bet or not, I wouldn't risk the farm betting either way. But, then I'm conservative when betting, as my guesses aren't ALWAYS right.

Well, it certainly is an Embee Production, and song published by Vicki Music (Harry Balk and his partner, Irv Micahnik). But. that doesn't guarantee that it was a Detroit recording. Balk & Micahnik often took their Detroit artists to New York to record them. They even operated an office in New York during 1959-64. Bill Ramal operated out of New York. I can't recall him having come to Detroit to record. Even those sessions he ran for Robert West, and Gwen Gordy and Billy Davis were all done in New York. As far as the recording sound, the room acoustics and sound of the session players' styles don't remind me of ANY Detroit cut. It sounds more like the regular New York Bill Ramal recordings. Even Richard Tee's crew he used for Jobete N.Y. and Robert Bateman's New York productions of Detroit-style songs sounded a lot more like Detroit recordings than this.

Wasn't Tommy's Palmer record played some on The Scene? But, I imagine it wasn't a hit. It has those great Theodore-Coffey arrangements.

No one mentioned The Electrons' version.

Sounds somewhat like a Magnificent Men recording. Not nearly as good as The Radiants' original. The singing is decent, but he had limited voice range. The instrumentation is fairly weak (as many re-makes of Motown, The Chicago Sound, and The Philadelphia Sound usually are).

There were many Italian-American groups in Detroit that started singing in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Tommy Frontera( ), The Seminoles/Embers(Joey Finazzo/Sal Prado), The Calveys(Gino Romano), Mike (Valvano) & The Modifiers, The Sunliners (Ralph Terrana), Reflections (Tony Micale), The Laredos(Danny Zella).

Mine has an uneven, slightly bumpy small area where a stamp MAY have been made, but the raised and/or lowered area is so faint that it is questionable whether or not any impression was stamped in.

I have "Zoom Zoom Zoom by The Collegians on Winley 224 from 1957. It was Paul Winley's label. I bought it new back then. Mine (and all those issues of that record that I've seen) has only W-224A on the A side, and W-224B on "On Your Merry Way". There are no other markings, nor any stampings. That holds true for all my Winley records that were pressed in New York. I do have some Paragons, Jesters, Duponts, Emanons, George Knight, Charlie White, and Dave "Baby" Cortez records on the label that have the triangle code when they were pressed at Monarch or Alco in L.A., and have a couple pressed in Chicago that have Midwest plant codes. I think the copies of "Zoom Zoom Zoom" pressed in L.A., or The Midwest, might should have their local pressing plant codes scratched on. But, I can't remember for sure, as a never paid much attention to the different etchings on hit records not produced in Detroit or Chicago. My Masters Crimson 1008, has CR-1008A scratched into the "I Need Your Love" side, to the lower left of the song title, credits and group name below the record's hole, and on the left side, has the Greek letters sigma and delta, and an = sign scratched on.

Sorry. You are right. I misremembered Sheila's name as "Helen", and thought the two must be the same. My long-term memory is getting worse.

Same Philadelphia lady, who also had a record out with Swan Records.

Should be original, based on the raised "X". Scanner must have made the colour wrong.

Not the right lady for you, or any record collector. If you love a person, you accept them with all their faults. - ESPECIALLY if those faults are victimless. Only if your spending on records would lead to your family members starving, or unable to get medical care, should you seek medical care. Did your spending that £1000, and your other spending affect HER lifestyle? You two ate white bread and margerine sandwiches instead of eating at restaurants? You gave her cigar rings for her birthdays and Christmas?

Why would you pay so much for a hit??? I would have guessed you could have found that 2nd hand in a bargain bin or in a charity shop.

The colouring on yours looks wrong, but THAT could be due to the scanner. Hard to tell by your print, as the scan photo is too blurry. What's engraved, etched, or stamped in the runout will let you know if yours is the lookalike boot, or the original.

Right now it's just a dream. We brought up the idea a few years ago, and some government officials mentioned that we'd probably have no hope receiving government help in the form of a grant, due to ongoing budget problems. The best we could hope for might possibly be the donation of an old building that is not desirable for commercial use. But even that happening might take a lucky break. I might have to buy an old farmhouse in a remote village in the east of the country, and convert the barn. It might be ironic, if I'll have to sell off my 5 or 10 most valuable records to do that (which would prevent them from being displayed in the museum).

Ha! Ha! I believed his several Schilling limit. It was the stopped collecting in 1967 I thought was the joke. That would mean he's added no records since then. Even I, who essentially stopped seriously looking for records in 1972, when The British NS and deep Soul collectors, Japanese Soul collectors, Americans looking for Belgian Shag and Beach scene records started picking everything clean, and I started spending 3/4 of the year in Africa, Asia and Europe. Although I did by a few records in Holland, and a few hundred in The UK after 1972, those amounted to less than 1 % of my collection amount. So, Julian B. is it really true that you are a NS fan, but you didn't add ANY records to your collection since 1967?

Surely you jest! (Don't call me Shirley! ) Is that really true?