Robbk

Johnny Terry was with The Drifters, and worked a lot out of New York. But several Detroit producers teamed up with him to release their Detroit-recorded products. Empire had mostly (if not exclusively) Detroit productions, and Garrison had productions from all over USA, but had several Detroit productions. Johnny Terry also placed some Detroit productions with Juggy Murray's group of New York labels.

Yes, and VJ's Conrad music proves that. Definitely a Chicago production. I don't remember a Chicago girls group called The Tears appearing locally in 1965-67. So, maybe this was their only release, at least under that name. But their lead, and the group, as a whole, don't sound, to me, like Dolly and The Fashions.

I'm skeptical, too. I think The Tears are a Chicago group. Burgess Gardner and Wade Flemons, and VJ's Conrad Music all say it's a Chicago production. You hear about one person moving across USA and working in a new place, and you hear about whole groups moving to New York or L.A. to get into the recording industry's hubs. But, a whole group moving from big city L.A. to Chicago, and cutting just one record with Andre Williams and nothing else there, doesn't seem likely. Also, I hear a different tone from the two groups' lead singers. Every person has a unique tone, even identical twins.

Another "clown song" is "Cathy's Clown" by The Vontastics.

It could sound this way recorded any time between 1967 and 1973, or even 1974. The fact that the label font and style looks a little '70sish, and that Jimmy Delphs was on the label (had to be after he left Karen), leads me to believe it is at least m1971, and could be as new as 1973, or so. You are likely to be right.

Very nice. It sounds like 1967. I've never seen nor heard of it before. I don't recognise the names of anyone one the record, other than having seen Sharlotte Shaw's name before, but spelled "Charlotte". Never heard of The Pages, nor Basic Step Music. Sounds like a Mike Terry arrangement.

Again, I state: Someone should ask John where he got the information that Dena was recorded a few years before by George Fowler, and if the recordings still exist.

Are you saying that you KNOW that Dena Barnes had a released record produced by George Fowler on another label a few years before her Inferno record?

Are you referring to the two Balk/Browner unreleased cuts being "lost in the vaults", or the Fowler-produced cuts being lost?

Might possibly be so, as Detroit's Jazz and R&B pianist, T.J. Fowler had his own record label from 1962-65, Puff Records, of which, he was the main producer. He could well have been the one mentioned above, as having recorded Dena Barnes a few years earlier than the Harry Balk/Duke Browner/Mike Terry 1966 session. BUT, it was Gospel organist and pianist, and producer, George Fowler, that was mentioned above as the producer who recorded Dena a few years earlier than Browner. BUT, a few years earlier than 1966, George Fowler was working as a songwriter/producer for Motown. I don't recall George moonlighting on his own non-Motown productions at that time, like Joe Hunter. I don't know if George Fowler had an exclusive producer/songwriter contract with Motown, after Divinity closed down in 1963. I never saw any tapes or acetates/demos of any Dena Barnes recordings in The Motown Vault, nor any reference to any such recordings. Neither have I heard of any from any other source. I would LOVE to find out that Dena recorded 2 cuts for Motown in 1964, with Funk Brothers' backing tracks. But, somehow, I think it is more likely that T.J. Fowler recorded her for Puff Records. Has anyone ever heard of Puff Records' master tapes being found? If they have been, why have we not heard those 2 Dena Barnes cuts? Someone should ask John where he got the information that Dena was recorded a few years before by George Fowler, and if the recordings still exist.

So, maybe George Fowler recorded 2 songs with Dena, which may have been pressed on a record, or just left in the can (which are in addition to the never released 2 extra cuts recorded by Duke Browner and Mike Terry in the same session as the 2 songs released on Inferno). I have never heard of any George Fowler-related release in '63-'64. So, it seems only possible that Dena had recorded either only the 4 songs recorded for Impact/Inferno, or 6 songs, 4 of which remained unreleased. I would really love to hear all 4 of the unreleased cuts, and find out who was involved in the George Fowler produced cuts, for which label or project financier, the studio used, session players, etc. I really like the 1962-64 Detroit sound even more than that 0f 1966.

I do. I still have probably a couple thousand company sleeves from the '50s, '60s, and beginning of The '70s, waiting for new (old) records I might get. But, I've only added a handful since the early 1990s.

So, this seems to point to there having been 2 Bobby Klines. The different spellings point that way as well. Apparently, that's why people seem to be confused about how his last name is spelled. They've probably seen different references to the two different singers. What would be an even more ironic twist (coincidence) would be that the Kline whose name appears in the writing credits for one of their songs is the OTHER Bobby Kline, who DIDN'T sing with them, while the other one did.

Over my many years I have seen many, many people make the mistake of assuming that a group singing behind a specific lead singer in a studio recording and.or in stage performances, has that lead singer as a "member" of the group, when that singer was always a solo artist when teamed with that group. Hearsay from someone who saw them perform. or saw records of the recording session is not confirmation that the lead singer was a group member, because that first-hand observer didn't know the specific contractual agreements (if any) that bound the group and singer together. i'm guessing that The Ocapellos and Kline were paired for either a few shows, and/or studio recording sessions, but Kline was never an official group member, and the group also sang one or a few songs written by Kline.

I always heard that The Ocapellos were an all Black group. They may have sung back-up for Kline on a record or two, but I really doubt that he was ever a member of that group, and I never heard a "white" lead on any of their recordings. They may have sung a song that he wrote. They may have recorded for the same label as he did, and may have been friends. None of those connections prove that he ever was a member of their group.

Yes those styrene pressings with the delta and that label design are Monarch (L.A.) pressings, and other label design and colour differences are from Midwest, East Coast, and Southern plant press runs.

Ronnie Savoy (Eugene Ronald Hamilton) produced them, probably in Detroit, rather than New York, given that Travler Music published the songs, Don Davis and Freddie Pride co-wrote the Billy Soul song on Velvet Sound, and Don Mancha (partner in Travler Music and their associated Detroit Productions on Jack Montgomery and The Honey Bees) did the marketing. Also, the first pressing of Velvet Sound 367 was pressed and distributed by Don Davis' Solid Hitbound Productions, and was pressed on styrene at Columbia Midwest (Terre Haute, Ind.), where most of Solid Hitbound's records were pressed. I assume the "Chico" Hamilton listed was yet another AKA of Eugene (Ronny) Hamilton, rather than the well-known Jazz drummer, who had played with Count Basie, and been one of the leading Jazz drummers in the 1950s through the 1970s. It would have been too much of a coincidence that two different, unrelated Hamiltons, from 2 different genres of music would have written and produced that Velvet Sound record. I don't think the drummer, Chico Hamilton produced any Soul vocal releases. Perhaps the "Chico" was an error by the printer, who was a Jazz fan, and hadn't heard of Detroit's Hamilton Brothers. Ronnie's brother, Bob Hamilton (AKA Rob Reeco), was the producer on the instrumental on the flip. The "Hamilton" listed on the writing credits of the Billy Soul Velvet Sound 45 was also Ronnie, rather than Dave Hamilton, quoted by John Manship on YouTube, where he uploaded its soundfile.

Can you please show us hi-res scans of the label, and tell us what is etched, engraved, and stamped in the runout?

Of course all 5 records are on the same Me-O Records that was owned by Romeo Taylor. His name and his personal music publishing company, Rocarmeo Music, is listed on all 5. The Martiniques was recorded in 1965 (not sure if it was released that early. The Tootsie Rollers sounds like 1965 or 1966. The Richard Wright sounds like 1965. I'm guessing that the other two were probably recorded between 1968 and 1972. They have a much later sound than the first 3 in the 1000 series. As I stated before, I think Taylor brought The Martiniques' and Tootsie Rollers' recordings with him from Detroit, and released them later, on his L.a. label.

Lew Bedell re-issued '60s Dore Soul recordings all throughout the 1970s and into the 1980s, not just to meet foreign demand, but mainly for The US Oldies market.

Wow! Morris Kaplan's kid!! He certainly should know the answers to some of our questions! He was old enough to have known a lot about his father's operation from 1962-1966. And he was probably involved directly, by that time.

Yes, it was a two-sided hit. Both were played in Chicago. I saw a lot more copies on Danceland than on Roulette. But, in L.A. there were a lot more on Roulette.

That is likely for The Tootsie Rollers. But, it is not for The Martiniques, whose "Unknown Love" on Danceland records in 1963, and "Broken Hearted Me" in 1964, charted regionally, and gave the group a big following. They were successful playing clubs in the region. Unknown Love" did so well, regionally, that Roulette Records picked it up for national distribution, and it charted, and became a minor hit nationally. The Martiniques were very well known in The Detroit Metro Area.

Duplicate post due to merger of the two threads.

From what I remember, The Martiniques broke up in 1966. I DOUBT that they moved on to become The Royal Jokers on Wingate. Perhaps ONE of them joined The Royal Jokers. That group was an on-going local institution in Detroit, starting when they formed in the early 1950s, with falsetto lead, Willie Jones singing like Clyde McPhatter. They had some national hits, but were ALWAYS one the the most popular local groups, all the way through at least the mid 1960s (which included their Wingate release's period-through 1966. It was my understanding that The Wingate group was descended from the earlier group without any mass change, such as happened with The Drifters and The Falcons, but with only individual new members when one member left the group. Long-time lead singer, Willie Jones was still with The Royal Jokers on their Wingate cuts. But, at least most of the former members must have still been with the group.