Robbk

Yes, I'M the one that originally said that Mercedes Music was Hancock's, and that he was likely to be at least a co-owner. I was only repeating what someone just wrote above, that Talmadge owned Highland and Magnum. I also found it hard to believe. And now I looked back to find out who wrote that (as my comment on that was responding to that very quote), and now I find that the quote doesn't exist. I must be going mad (or have crossed the line into severe senility).

We already went over this in an extensive thread I started in 2004 on Soulful Detroit Forum. Someone I talked to at Motown, who was friendly with Hal Davis, Marc Gordon, and Frank Wilson, told me that the Doc Records label was partly (or fully) financed by a doctor living in Rydal, Pennsylvania, who was a friend of Davis'. I believe he spent a fair amount of time in L.A. I don't believe the story that Ed Cobb, or Davis, Gordon, The Pipkins, or any of the Jobete L.A. producers had any reason to use an address far away from L.A. to "hide" these releases from Berry Gordy and his staff. Otherwise, all those other Jobete songs they released on other indie labels (Power, Grand, Joker, Magnum, Dee Gee, Tamara, and all the songs released on non-majors, would have had to be placed on new labels using "fake" addresses in distant cities. As far as I know, Champion was Ed Cobb's label, probably owned by him and with a financier partner. It was NOT owned by VJ, only distributed by their Tollie distributor. Ed Cobb was NOT the only L.A. Jobete producer to have a release on Doc Records. It probably was an outlet for ANY of the L.A. Jobete producers to release their own productions, given that "The Doctor" knew Hal Davis, and probably most of them.

So Sid Talmadge owned, or co-owned, both Highland and Magnum. No wonder some records were on both labels.

Yes, that must have been Sid's son, If he was in his 20s. If he was in his 40s or 50s, then he was Sid's brother.

I agree with you, and NOT the article, which states that he kept a low profile after leaving the music industry completely in 1967. He was around and on the scene at least into the beginning of the '70s, when I moved to Holland.

The spelling error, "Jobette" was pretty common, probably because the name was pronounced more like that spelling would represent in English than Jobete. 9It was pronounced Jo-Bet for Joy, Berry, and Terry. During the early days of Anna, Ray-Ber, and the earliest Tamla, the name was spelt "Jobette" almost as frequently as "Jobete", especially on Anna Records, and early Tamla. So, I guess The Gordys couldn't decide which to use, and people who had seen it spelled the alternative (misspelled) way, thought it was correct, especially given that it was pronounced that way. Willie Hutch and Hal Davis on Side A - Kent Harris (who also wrote a few songs for Jobete L.A. on the B Side. The only Talmadge I know of in the record business in L.A. in the 1960s was Sid Talmadge, who owned and operated Record Merchandising (record distributors) on 9th Street near Vermont. He was a big businessman. I'd be kind of surprised to find out that he wrote songs together with Hal Davis and Kent Harris. He DID distribute Magnum Records' products. But, maybe his son was a musician and songwriter? During the mid and late '60s and up to 1972, I had friends working at their warehouse, and so, got to buy records there for 50 cents each, or 40 cents apiece in whole boxes.

And there was also another L.A. Frank Wilson who wrote songs for Motown! And there are a bunch of Robert Kleins, too!

Chris Clark never recorded a song that appeared on Joker Records. That was Connie Clark. I believe Frank Wilson (or Hal Davis) said in an interview that Connie Clark was a different person from Chris, and was a singer also from L.A. I also seem to remember Chris Clark saying that she had never dealt with Joker Records, and that she, herself, was NOT the singer on the Connie Clark record.

Yes, that's the Royce Esters who did some songwriting and producing for Jobete Music's L.A. office before Motown moved to L.A. Maybe Michael Jackson sang an old Jobete L.A. song Esters wrote in the early to mid 1960s? Ordid Esters also write for Motown AFTER they moved to L.A.?

Are you confusing Chris Clark with Connie Clark? I don't believe Chris Clark worked with the L.A. Jobete people until Motown moved to L.A. And I don't recall her having any of her recordings released on a non-Motown L.A. label. I seem to remember that Frank Wilson told interviewers that Connie Clark was NOT Chris Clark, but another female singer from The L.A. Area.

Absolutely! Hutch was a nickname for Willie Hutch (Hutchison). Davis was Hal Davis. Frank Wilson wasn't moonlighting. He was going about his regular business as an independent songwriter, producer, arranger, and sometimes A&R man. His contract with Jobete Music, L.A. was not exclusive. It allowed him to continue to work for other music companies, record labels, and to produce his own productions. That was also true for Hal Davis, Marc Gordon, The Pipkin Cousins, Willie Hutch, Ed Cobb, and all the other personnel signed to L.A. Jobete. I don't believe they had ANY full-time music-related employees with exclusive contracts. Furthermore, all the songs they sold to Jobete Music were usable by them in their own outside productions, IF Motown didn't release a record using them after a given period subsequent to their recording (I believe it was 6 months). So, Hal Davis, Marc Gordon, Chester and Gary Pipkin, Frank Wilson, Willie Hutch, Royce Esters, Ed Cobb, Herman Griffith, Al Capps, Charles Wright, and others, could use a Jobete song on one of their own, independent productions for release on other than a Motown label. Several of the singers used in those productions were background singers they used when making the Jobete demo recordings used as a guide for the Motown contracted singers, and to prove Motown ownership of the songs.

Yes, each year, now, we will find out what is left in the vaults that hadn't yet been released. So, there should be almost nothing left but a couple of stray misplaced (and currently unknown) acetates possibly to be found from the pre-1970 period, and only 1970-88 to find any others.

WOW!!! "One Lucky Day, I Found You" by The Volumes is Fantastic!!!! As good as Harry Balk's and Duke Browners' jobs with The Lollipops. There are still Classic Motown cuts in The Vault I've never heard! Amazing that they keep appearing.

I'm sure they weren't released on singles. I doubt that Carolyn Crawford had a release on an MGM affiliate label, or on Venture. Maybe Mickey's cut was on one of his LPs. But, I'd be surprised. I think both songs were previously unreleased. In fact it says "previously unreleased" right on the labels.

I see that I haven't heard either cut. But Carolyn's being a 1971 recording was apparently NOT a Motown recording (despite Vicki Basemore being one of the writers. Maybe Martin Stevenson was Mickey's son? I seem to remember Vicki doing some songwriting for late '60s and early '70s Mickey's productions with MGM and Venture Records. I guess Mickey's cut on the flip is also from that period. Now I've confirmed that, noticing Mikim Music on the Kent label. I hope someone can post snippets of them.

Not being in The Northern Scene in Britain, and not having found a tape or acetate of Mickey singing that song during my searches through The Motown Vaults during the 1970s, and not having had mickey play it for me when his offices were adjacent to our Airwave Records' offices during the early 1980s , I haven't gotten to hear "I Stand Blue" by Mickey. I would like to listen to a digital sound clip of it, if possible. Also, I would like to know what new previously unreleased Motown recording by Carolyn Crawford was on "the 'A' Side", in case I've never heard that one. She is not only one of my favourite Motown singers, but one of my favourite singers (out of literally thousands). Can anyone post sound files (or, at least snippets)?

I doubt that the person who pressed them up was the legal owner of the master tapes, and the rights to sell the recordings.

I'd bet he was a Detroiter. I've seen his name on other Detroit labels, including De-To, and, if I remember correctly, a couple of Clarence Marshall's labels.

I guess that they are brothers, Winston and Milton Hall. The record was a Chicago label. But, I haven't heard of The Hall Brothers. It was produced by yet another Hall (father, or 3rd brother?). I also haven't heard of the label owner James Hebel. The label looks like it could have been pressed anytime between 1963 and 1967. I never saw that particular record during my 13+ years of searching records in Chicagoland during the late '50s and 60s. I did see a few other Falstaff Records, but can't remember the artists.

I always heard he was Charles Dillard, who was listed on most of Chuck Holiday's cuts as songwriter, and sometimes as the arranger.

Here's a scan of The Martineques' white DJ issue:

Well, I think we've confirmed that The Martiniques' cuts were recorded in Detroit, but their records were pressed in L.A.

Thanks Chalky. That just proves I don't know how to conduct a search. I typed "George Hammonds and The Star-vells - 'Baby, I'm Leaving You' " on the search bar on You-Tube, and lots of songs with that title came up, but none were George Hammonds. The writing of the song, especially the harmony of the call-and response chorus, sounds very Detroitish (1960-63 R&B sound)- like that used by Smokey Robinson in his 1960-62 songwriting for fast group songs, and in Lamont Dozier's "I Didn't Know". But the instruments sound like they are being played by L.A. players, rather than the Detroiters I'm used to hearing. I don't recognise Timothy Allen as a Detroit OR L.A. writer. But, I remember The Star-Vells recording for several small L.A. labels. So, I suspect this was NOT one of the master tapes Taylor brought with him from Detroit.

I found my white DJ of it in Pat's Record shop in South L.A. in late 1965, in a budget bin. I've seen about 15-17 copies of the white DJ in shops, and 5 store stockers (both red and pinkish/beige). I've seen themthroughout the late 1960s and early '70s in Chicago and L.A., and San Francisco Bay Area (Oakland), and, if I remember correctly, Seattle. It seemed much more common as a DJ issue. It was likely to havebbeen in some quantities in Detroit, as well, as the group and producer were from there, and probably helped market it (although I never found one there in many Saturdays of making the rounds of the record shops and thrift and junk stores.

I still can't hear it. I don't want to risk taking the free trial for Amazon Music, and then get billed for buying that service when I don't want it. I've had those situations before on free trials, in which I was not notified that the free trial was over, and the provider said I had ordered it. It was a big hassle to get it all undone. Does anyone else have a soundfile of it?