Robbk

I don't know. But that's what Ron told me. He used ARP for pressing some of his own labels. So, he should know. I didn't handle the details of pressing orders with Airwave, so I don't have practical experience and detailed knowledge in that area.

I owned a record company. I would want a test pressing from each pressing plant just before they do our press run. I'd want at LEAST 2 copies made, one to stay at the plant, in case it sells well and we'd need to order another press run, and, I'd want a 2nd one for my company, in case the pressing plant's copy gets misplaced. I would guess that any plants other than ARP probably made at least 2 or 3, but possibly 5 or 6, too. If someone put a gun to my head and would shoot if I'd be wrong, I'd guess 3 first, then 2. Motown's policy in late 1965 was to press in Detroit, RCA East(Pennsylvania), and Monarch, in L.A. So, I believe there's a small possibility that one or 2 from Monarch might show up. But, the fact that none have surfaced in all these years means that there's a chance that theybwon't surface, because they may have been destroyed, or are in the hands of a hermit-like collector. It could have been thrown into the trash by his grandson or granddaughter, who have no idea it could be worth anything, and so, wouldn't even try to put it on E-Bay, to find out. I'm sure I've seen test pressings for the same record release from two different plants. But, I can't remember which records they were. Some were hits, and some were uncharted, so I'm sure it was a regular policy. Why didn't we ask all these questions of Motown producers who were around Motown in then mid-late '60s, and were still alive and with their memories intact? If you had all asked these questions in 2001-2007 or so, we could have had Mickey Stevenson, Joe Hunter, Jack Ashford, Clay MacMurray, and others ALL posted on SoulFul Detroit forum. Berry's still got all his marbles. But none of us would bother him with such questions.

Maybe Berry replaced the missing one Tom got with his own?

The copy Soussan got from us was one of the 2 file copies. It was either the Motown File Copy, or The Jobete file copy, as far as I remember, they were BOTH missing before Tom first showed me "Our copy". I'd bet the farm ours was one of those 2. Also, we got The Andantes, and several other very rare ones, Tom said he found them in a box that someone was going to throw away, and "someone said he could take them." Several of the file copies had gone "missing" (many of the rarest Motown 45s). That happened in 1976 or 1977.

I, myself, saw the two that were in the two files Motown Record Files. One of those 2 was the one we had at Airwave, because the two file copies were already missing when we had ours. I was told, in house, inside Motown, that Berry got one or 2 of them, and that Quality Control got one they kept in the firm NOT that THEIR copy was kept at ARP. I think that was Mickey who told me that. Ron told me that's what the ARP man who let him have it told him. I myself saw 3 copies, the 2 file copies, and Ron's copy. I believe that Quality Control had one in house, in case the ARP copy would go missing. I was told by several different people that Berry received, and kept for himself, at least one copy of every release. Did he stop keeping them sometime back?

The copy the record store had - was it a DJ copy or a store stocker? I haven't heard of anyone coming up with a store stocker since ours was stolen, or Tom sold off. 6 Test pressings were always made for a test for an ordered commercial press run at the Detroit pressing plant where Ron Murphy found the 2 DJ copies. He had his own labels, and was a veteran of using that plant. Furthermore, he said a long-time worker at the plant told him that the plant always kept 2 of the test copies in case of future orders, and the other 4 went to the record company. I was told by Mickey Stevenson (and others inside Motown)that the 4 Motown copies were distributed as follows: 2 copies were kept by Berry Gordy, personally, one copy each went to The Motown Record Corp. Record File, and The Jobete Music Co. Record File, and Quality Control got one or two. If the latter only got one, I can't remember who got the other, but I was told that Motown got all 4 of the pressings that didn't stay in the pressing plant. We had an almost mint copy in our office record collection record wall for 6 years before Simon Soussan got it. That copy could well be the one that Kenny Burrell, but I would swear that our copy was a full colour store stocker, especially because I was totally shocked to see The DJ issue (which I had never seen before). I only remembered ever having seen the store stocker.

But it is only the song's intro that's the same the rest of the two songs are different, similar to Jackie Ross' "Selfish One". Nevertheless, lawsuits have been won over just intros being copied.

I was making a joke, being facetious there, thus the emoji. But isn't it ironic that they stole a song from Atlantic, and then signed a big deal to be a co-production division of that same company? I wonder how many times that happened in music history. Its has some similarity(in a way) to Berry Gordy's buying out of his competition in Detroit (Ed Wingate twice(Golden World (1966) Ric Tic(1968), (The Hazel&Robert Coleman's Thelma (1966), (Artie Fields'Top Dog 1967), Mike Hanks' D-Town(1966), and taking in staff (Wingate&Thelma)from some, or using their masters(Fields&Hanks). Ed Wingate did that with Correc-Tone, buying out Wilbur Golden, and picking up some of his staff, and using his artists.

So Leiber and Stoller FAILED to give Ray Charles credit for writing the music, and also Progressive Music for publishing Charles' music. Maybe Ahmet FINED them a bunch of money when they came on board, or took it out of their salaries or what cut % they'd have gotten in the deal?

So, it was the other way round, with Leiber and Stoller in L.A. Stealing Ray Charles' tune to use in their Frankie Marshall production. The Nov. 12, 1955 article states that the association of the two labels began several weeks (at most, a couple months) before (perhaps late August, or early September, 1955). Can you tell me the month of 1955 that The Frankie Marshall Spark 45 came out? It had to come out BEFORE the deal with Atlantic was signed, as that is when Spark Records stopped its operations. IF the Spark record's use of Ray Charles' tune was agreed upon by Atlantic because they were already in negotiations with Leiber and Stoller, one would guess that the proper publisher, Progressive Music, which published "I Got A Woman" would have been printed on the Spark record label, rather than just L&S' Quintet Music. Leiber and Stoller wouldn't have asked a favour of Atlantic and then "stolen" a song from them. Or, IF they had NO relationship with Atlantic when The Marshall production was going on, it seems awfully coincidental that they would end up partnering up with a firm from whom they had stolen a song. I'm guessing that they already had some relationship with Atlantic, and asked permission to use Ray Charles' tune, perhaps paying a fee to do so, and agreeing to share the music publishing. but in innocent error, forgot to add Progressive Music to the credits on the label. I can't read the music publishing credits on the Spark record above. Maybe both Quintet and Progressive Music ARE listed, and the tune was NOT stolen.

Did Motown sue to get half the songwriting credits and publishing rights? They had a better claim on this one than on "Ask Any Girl' or some of the others they won. This is pure stealing

I don't believe that the same musicians were playing on both. We could look up the session dates. I'm sure they were several months apart. "Do I Love You" sounds a lot better, but maybe that's because "My Sugar Baby" wasn't finished with its mixes. The Connie Clark was a Joker Production, so it may not have been the same L.A. studio, and certainly could have been a completely different set of instrumentalists.

The basic beats of "My Sugar Baby" and "Do I Love You" are remotely similar (one of 3 or 4 Frank Wilson's "fast song styles", to which he has returned many times. But "Do I Love You" has different instruments featured at different times, with different melodies, and it also has a LOT more changes and breaks, while "My Sugar Baby" rarely deviates from its basic beat (bass line). So, I would say that these two songs are far from being identical.

That's not even the case of Wally Roker and Big Dee Ervin using the same background track for two different productions. They are the exact same song. It's just a song title change (or Alternative title).

Weird that Tommy Cogbill would copy an Ollie McGlaughlin backing track. I wonder if Milton Wright (R. Rights III) is the connection? The Masqueraders, originally from Texas, did work out of Detroit with LaBeat Records for 3 years. They should have met Ollie during that period.

I remember a rumour in the 70s and 80s, that Sidney Barnes sang on The Fellows' record, and was George Clinton's assistant producer in the recording session. If that's really true, maybe that's why the group listed on the record couldn't be "The Parliaments". Maybe it was some or all of The Parliaments, plus Sidney? But, I think we had someone already ask Sidney that question some years ago.

We had this one slated for one of the later LPs in our "From The Vaults' series (#4, if I remember correctly).

I have never seen nor heard of any recording (tape, vinyl demo record, or acetate) that Sherry Payne made for Solid Hitbound Productions. Wouldn't that have been part of Don Davis' master tapes (which should have been in his son's hands when he died)?

Neither of those 2 is singing lead on this cut. But, I believe George is singing in the background.

That intro is from Miserlou (a Turkish song). But, it was based on a Gypsy tune, and those Gypsies, although originally from North India, moved through Iran, and eventually to Egypt, before they came to Europe. So, it well could be an Egyptian tune. Misr means Egypt in Arabic and the consonants "M-S-R" mean Egypt in ALL Semitic languages, both modern and archaic(Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic, Sabean, Akkadian, Canaanite, Eblaite, Assyrian, Babylonian, etc.) It is interesting that the Pop version from the 1930s came from a Greek version of the 1890s Turkish song. And that version was the origin of The Cardinals' R&B version from 1954., and Dick Dale and The Deltones' Surf instrumental version from 1962.

Why would it be a "takeover", when Mike Gradney had started and owned BOTH labels. He started Spry first, and ran it in 1957-59. Then it became inactive. Then, he started Cenco in early 1961. He revived Spry in late 1961. Both ran concurrently, with some overlap in releases. The confusion in release record numbers seems to have started when both labels were running, and continued with Cenco after Spry was shut down the final time. Maybe it just became difficult for his tiny staff (probably himself and no more than 2 or 3 others, at most) to keep track of everything while running 2 different labels.

I've gone through literally millions of 45s in my many years of record scrounging. I can't really estimate the number I looked through in one day at John Anderson's, or Bob Hillyard's or Jane's House of Records, or Music Man Murray's, or Ray Avery's, or Bob May's, or Record Merchandising, or Wenzel's Music Town, or Art Turco's or any others of the large warehouses or distributors. And, I can't recall all the great records I found at each place. I do remember finding all 4 Moniques at John Andersons, and paying only 3 quid apiece for them (including the 2 valuable ones). I remember paying 50 cents for The Servicemen on Chartmaker. I found hundreds of high-value Soul and R&B and Blues records over the years on days I searched through many thousands of 45s. 30 years ago, I could have recounted what I found where and when. But now those are distant memories, seemingly from someone else's life.