Robbk

The Wonderettes don't seem to be singing in the background of Johnny Mae's "Lonely You'll Be", there WERE in the BG of Calvin Williams' version.

Yes to both of your surmisings. I'm pretty sure that Rose was Johnny's wife, rather than sister or daughter. I'll ask my Detroit '60s friends left on Soulful Detroit Forum if they remember Johnny. Yes, the Enterprise 1964 release was earlier than the Ruby (Late 1965). Interesting that also Sammy Solo's Ruby record was released earlier (1965) on Enterprise, and that Joe Terry's and Lee Gates' Soul releases on Enterprise are still not shown or listed on Discogs.

Surely they recorded for Ruby Records first, (which may have been co-owned by Bob Schwartz and the owner of Different Music (Detroit's Enterprise label group , which included Enterprise, Ruby, Dynamic, Cindy, and Heart Records, and, I think one or two others)), and leased their record to UA after, to get national distribution. I say that, not only because most records that appear on 2 labels started on the smaller label, and moved to the larger one to gain national distribution, but also because the Ruby issue listed ONLY Enterprise's "Different Music", while the UA issue added "Unart Music" (United Artist's in-house publisher), thus splitting the publishing rights in half for UA's paying pressing costs and distributing the record nationally; and, most importantly, I bought the Ruby record when it was out, at least a couple months before I ever saw a UA copy.

I can't believe Matchy has never seen photos of Eddie and Brian standing together showing their family resemblance, or seen videos of both of them and not seen videos of Jackie. I've seen both of them in person, and all kinds of people I know have talked about them for 70 years. It's like the fake moon landing conspiracy controversy. If Jackie Wilson and Eddie Holland were the same person, why did they look so different, when we saw them and heard the music coming out of their mouths (not just lip sinking)? How could such a secret have been kept for over 50 years? It's very absurd. I think Matchy was pulling your leg. Nobody, especially a Soul fan, could have missed seeing film of both singing.

The original poster put Jackie's picture on it and listed it as him as a joke to see how many people would be fooled by it into believing it was him. Maybe he was betting with a friend whether or not anyone would catch the mislabeling.

Thanks, I knew that everyone has a unique tone in their voices, and that voice didn't sound much like Jackie.

I found this on YouTube, with Jackie's photo, saying it is him. This version is listed at 3:13. The 45 was under 3:00. This guy sounds a little like him, but certainly not the way he sounded in 1967-68. But in later parts of the song he sounds like a completely different person. Is this someone else, or a late remake by Jackie from the early 1970s? The instrumental is different from the hit 45 version, and also different from the alternate LP version. The bass, drums, and horns are different too, as are the background singers (not The Andantes'45 version): https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=191&v=mzDVaKRApcg&feature=emb_logo

It stands to reason, as He looks way too young to have been even within 20 years of the 1964 singer.

I would guess that there is a very, very good chance, given that The Fantastic Four and he were all within a year or 2 in age, when they were singers in Detroit. It was a small, tight community. Everyone knew of everyone else in the business, and many of them were friends of many of the others. Now they're appearing together in Detroit. I would guess (and bet) this Eddy Hughes is the singer who recorded for Bard Records.

Clearly Hysong's version was just a demo for Eddie Hughes' commercial release. I'm sure Hysong's being pressed up on Bard was just an extremely small "vanity" pressing. I really doubt that more than 100 were pressed. Back in the day, I remember seeing a reasonable number of The Eddy Hughes record both in Detroit and Chicago, but never saw the Don Hysong. I really doubt that Bard thought they could get Hysong's played on Pop stations, and could sell it to Pop fans. Hughes' is great. Hysong's wasn't commercial quality. It's the songwriter giving his artist a not-very-good idea of how it should be sung, knowing Hughes would "spruce it up" and put a soulful take on it. It pre-dates Billy Stewart's "I Do Love You", but has an extremely similar musical phrase in it.

Clearly Hysong's version was a demo for Eddie Hughes' commercial release. I'm sure Hysong's being pressed up on Bard was just an extremely small "vanity" pressing. I really doubt that more than 100 were pressed. Back in the day, I remember seeing a reasonable number of The Eddy Hughes record both in Detroit and Chicago, but never saw the Don Hysong. I really doubt that Bard thought they could get Hysong's played on Pop stations, and could sell it to Pop fans.

Those with white labels, handwritten black or blue ink, with the turquoise quality control stamp (which IS the real one) look just like most of those in The Motown Vault. There were also a few solid yellow labels there. I'd say these were all legitimate. Those with other-coloured labels and no stamp, I can't say.

I don't know. But that's what Ron told me. He used ARP for pressing some of his own labels. So, he should know. I didn't handle the details of pressing orders with Airwave, so I don't have practical experience and detailed knowledge in that area.

I owned a record company. I would want a test pressing from each pressing plant just before they do our press run. I'd want at LEAST 2 copies made, one to stay at the plant, in case it sells well and we'd need to order another press run, and, I'd want a 2nd one for my company, in case the pressing plant's copy gets misplaced. I would guess that any plants other than ARP probably made at least 2 or 3, but possibly 5 or 6, too. If someone put a gun to my head and would shoot if I'd be wrong, I'd guess 3 first, then 2. Motown's policy in late 1965 was to press in Detroit, RCA East(Pennsylvania), and Monarch, in L.A. So, I believe there's a small possibility that one or 2 from Monarch might show up. But, the fact that none have surfaced in all these years means that there's a chance that theybwon't surface, because they may have been destroyed, or are in the hands of a hermit-like collector. It could have been thrown into the trash by his grandson or granddaughter, who have no idea it could be worth anything, and so, wouldn't even try to put it on E-Bay, to find out. I'm sure I've seen test pressings for the same record release from two different plants. But, I can't remember which records they were. Some were hits, and some were uncharted, so I'm sure it was a regular policy. Why didn't we ask all these questions of Motown producers who were around Motown in then mid-late '60s, and were still alive and with their memories intact? If you had all asked these questions in 2001-2007 or so, we could have had Mickey Stevenson, Joe Hunter, Jack Ashford, Clay MacMurray, and others ALL posted on SoulFul Detroit forum. Berry's still got all his marbles. But none of us would bother him with such questions.

Maybe Berry replaced the missing one Tom got with his own?

The copy Soussan got from us was one of the 2 file copies. It was either the Motown File Copy, or The Jobete file copy, as far as I remember, they were BOTH missing before Tom first showed me "Our copy". I'd bet the farm ours was one of those 2. Also, we got The Andantes, and several other very rare ones, Tom said he found them in a box that someone was going to throw away, and "someone said he could take them." Several of the file copies had gone "missing" (many of the rarest Motown 45s). That happened in 1976 or 1977.

I, myself, saw the two that were in the two files Motown Record Files. One of those 2 was the one we had at Airwave, because the two file copies were already missing when we had ours. I was told, in house, inside Motown, that Berry got one or 2 of them, and that Quality Control got one they kept in the firm NOT that THEIR copy was kept at ARP. I think that was Mickey who told me that. Ron told me that's what the ARP man who let him have it told him. I myself saw 3 copies, the 2 file copies, and Ron's copy. I believe that Quality Control had one in house, in case the ARP copy would go missing. I was told by several different people that Berry received, and kept for himself, at least one copy of every release. Did he stop keeping them sometime back?

The copy the record store had - was it a DJ copy or a store stocker? I haven't heard of anyone coming up with a store stocker since ours was stolen, or Tom sold off. 6 Test pressings were always made for a test for an ordered commercial press run at the Detroit pressing plant where Ron Murphy found the 2 DJ copies. He had his own labels, and was a veteran of using that plant. Furthermore, he said a long-time worker at the plant told him that the plant always kept 2 of the test copies in case of future orders, and the other 4 went to the record company. I was told by Mickey Stevenson (and others inside Motown)that the 4 Motown copies were distributed as follows: 2 copies were kept by Berry Gordy, personally, one copy each went to The Motown Record Corp. Record File, and The Jobete Music Co. Record File, and Quality Control got one or two. If the latter only got one, I can't remember who got the other, but I was told that Motown got all 4 of the pressings that didn't stay in the pressing plant. We had an almost mint copy in our office record collection record wall for 6 years before Simon Soussan got it. That copy could well be the one that Kenny Burrell, but I would swear that our copy was a full colour store stocker, especially because I was totally shocked to see The DJ issue (which I had never seen before). I only remembered ever having seen the store stocker.

But it is only the song's intro that's the same the rest of the two songs are different, similar to Jackie Ross' "Selfish One". Nevertheless, lawsuits have been won over just intros being copied.

I was making a joke, being facetious there, thus the emoji. But isn't it ironic that they stole a song from Atlantic, and then signed a big deal to be a co-production division of that same company? I wonder how many times that happened in music history. Its has some similarity(in a way) to Berry Gordy's buying out of his competition in Detroit (Ed Wingate twice(Golden World (1966) Ric Tic(1968), (The Hazel&Robert Coleman's Thelma (1966), (Artie Fields'Top Dog 1967), Mike Hanks' D-Town(1966), and taking in staff (Wingate&Thelma)from some, or using their masters(Fields&Hanks). Ed Wingate did that with Correc-Tone, buying out Wilbur Golden, and picking up some of his staff, and using his artists.

So Leiber and Stoller FAILED to give Ray Charles credit for writing the music, and also Progressive Music for publishing Charles' music. Maybe Ahmet FINED them a bunch of money when they came on board, or took it out of their salaries or what cut % they'd have gotten in the deal?

So, it was the other way round, with Leiber and Stoller in L.A. Stealing Ray Charles' tune to use in their Frankie Marshall production. The Nov. 12, 1955 article states that the association of the two labels began several weeks (at most, a couple months) before (perhaps late August, or early September, 1955). Can you tell me the month of 1955 that The Frankie Marshall Spark 45 came out? It had to come out BEFORE the deal with Atlantic was signed, as that is when Spark Records stopped its operations. IF the Spark record's use of Ray Charles' tune was agreed upon by Atlantic because they were already in negotiations with Leiber and Stoller, one would guess that the proper publisher, Progressive Music, which published "I Got A Woman" would have been printed on the Spark record label, rather than just L&S' Quintet Music. Leiber and Stoller wouldn't have asked a favour of Atlantic and then "stolen" a song from them. Or, IF they had NO relationship with Atlantic when The Marshall production was going on, it seems awfully coincidental that they would end up partnering up with a firm from whom they had stolen a song. I'm guessing that they already had some relationship with Atlantic, and asked permission to use Ray Charles' tune, perhaps paying a fee to do so, and agreeing to share the music publishing. but in innocent error, forgot to add Progressive Music to the credits on the label. I can't read the music publishing credits on the Spark record above. Maybe both Quintet and Progressive Music ARE listed, and the tune was NOT stolen.

Did Motown sue to get half the songwriting credits and publishing rights? They had a better claim on this one than on "Ask Any Girl' or some of the others they won. This is pure stealing

I don't believe that the same musicians were playing on both. We could look up the session dates. I'm sure they were several months apart. "Do I Love You" sounds a lot better, but maybe that's because "My Sugar Baby" wasn't finished with its mixes. The Connie Clark was a Joker Production, so it may not have been the same L.A. studio, and certainly could have been a completely different set of instrumentalists.