Robbk

I bought mine in Chicago during the mid 1960s when it was out, so if anyone wants the runout markings let me know.

Not only that, but the print is weak and uneven, like it was taken from a photocopy.

I love Ashford and Simpson songs; but I love Ashford, Simpson & Armstead songs even more. Ashford & Simpson were a little towards The Brill Building sound. Jo added a more Jazzy & Bluesy feel that made the overall sound more full, rich, and deep. That trio wrote several of my all-time favourite hits - many of which didn't hit it big on the pop charts because they were "too darned Soulful"!

I agree. At least, that's what I heard. Interesting that Loleatta Holloway's version, although recorded in Atlanta, some ex Detroiters worked on it - Floyd Smith, and engineer Milan Bogden.

I can remember when the only people who even knew that record existed were those of us who had seen it in The Motown Record File.

"She can be covered with a rash, 'Long as she's got some cash!" - The Contours - "First I Look At The Purse" Gordy Records 1964 "Without her love I couldn't exist..... I'd e-end my life by cut my-y wrist!" - Gino Washington (backed by the uncredited Rochelles) - "Puppet On A String" Correc-Tone Records original version - 1962 "Well, my heart started beatin' fast as it could be-eat, I stood there shakin' from my head to my feet, I didn't know just what I wanted to do, When a Monster said, 'Which way is Fifth Avenue?' I hollered, 'Save me-e-e!'.... 'Save me!' I hollered, 'Save me-e-e!'..... 'Sa-ave me!' I hollered, 'Save me!', I hollered 'Save me! From the people from another world!' " The Jive Five "People From Another World" - Beltone Records 1962 I was standin', I was standin' on th' cor-ner, wit' my reefers in mah han' up step' dee sar-gent.... took dee reefers out mah han' "Champion" Jack DuPree - "Junker's Blues" - Okeh Records 1940

Good point. It's NOT strange, after all. Apparently I made an incorrect assumption about the dating of the 2 Motown purchases related to that of the Wingate-Griffin co-productions and Wingate's use of "Myto Music" and "Ric-Tic Music". Now it is clear that "Myto Music" was indeed dissolved, upon the first, 1966 Motown buyout, because the Wingate-Griffin co-productions took place in early 1966, BEFORE Motown's later 1966 buyout of Golden World Records, Golden World Sound Studio, and the Myto Music catalogue. At that time, Ed Wingate and JoAnne Bratton continued operating Ric-Tic Records, starting with Ric-Tic 141, operating out of their house, and using United Sound Studios. With Myto Music gone, they revived an already existing (but dormant since 1963) music publishing company (Ric-Tic Music) they had used in 1962-63 during their early years of operating Golden World and Ric-Tic Records, when they recorded in New York, and used New York songwriters. When they stopped operation of Ric-Tic Records in 1968, and sold off the contracts with a few more artists, and sold off the Ric-Tic Music catalogue (up to that point) and related master tapes, they DID NOT sell the name "Ric Tic Music", so they could use it again, because its former product now was instantly transferred to the Jobete Music Catalogue. So, that must be why Ed and JoAnne could again use Ric-Tic Music to publish their 1971 Golden World record.

All 3 issues were recorded, pressed up, and had been sold from commercial outlets before the changeover. Ric-Tic's "I Love You Madly", by The Fantastic Four, was selling well in the middle of its run, when the Motown 2nd Wingate (Ric-Tic) buyout/purchase and transfer was being completed. As soon as the takeover was completed, Motown pressed up the charted record's next press run on its own Soul label, as Ric-Tic had been shut down. Credits for its publishing had been changed to Jobete Music (from Myto), as the rights to that song's publishing were part of the existing Myto Music catalogue purchase. So, all those Myto Music songs existing at the time of Motown's buyout, immediately became published by Motown's Jobete Music. However, Ed Wingate and JoAnne Bratton were not out of the music business. They had some productions after that, including projects done together with Herman Griffin (Diane Lewis on Wand Records, The Players on Columbia), both of which listed their Myto Music (which hadn't been purchased by Motown in the buyout, - only the songs existing at that time). In 1971, The Wingates released a Golden World record "Stompin' Crazy Legs" by The Modern Times, which was also published by a Wingate publisher, Ric-Tic Music.

Yes. Richard worked also with Leo Austell, who worked on lot together on those small Chicago labels related to Renee(Sta-Set, Conduc, Lu-Cee, and Mar-Jan). Lamaja Music was Austell's. Jerhart was Bob Lee's. I think Austell was the A&R man, and managing partner (head producer and also arranger for most of them, partnering with financiers, or Lee in most. Where he and Lee both were involved, they shared producing duties. Goldsby (Ricky Gee) recorded for all those except Lu-Cee. Ruth Moore's Vick, and Lee's Hawk Records were related, as well.

As far as I remember, "Ricky Gee" was Richard Goldsby (family originally related to the family with the surname, Goolsby), and was an African-American. I remember seeing a few photos of him. He was Bob Lee's partner in a couple tiny Chicago record labels, and a songwriter, and helped Lee with production. As far as the versions, I bought the yellow Conduc issue, which was the common one, which was pretty pervasive locally. I don't remember seeing the red one in stores. So, my guess is that the red version might have been the original version, which didn't sell, or Lee couldn't get DJs to play, so he recorded a different version, or changed the speed to make it more marketable, based on people's reaction to the first version.

And Ike was born in 1927.

Yes, Eddie was the oldest, and he was a Jazz/Swing combo leader, musician, and vocalist, as well.

I never knew he was Nat's, Eddie's, and Ike's brother. His voice has much less family resemblance than the other three, although it does have some level of their smoothness and familial tone.

"Society Hill" is an American metaphor for the place where the rich (high-falutin') people live. That song is more likely to be about Pittsburgh than Philadelphia. It's not about Chicago because that city is perfectly flat. Not even a mole hill there. In Chicago, the singer would be talking about "the billionaires on Lake Shore Drive".

It wasn't a dead rare record. But, it certainly wasn't the easiest to find, even back when it was out.

The pacquet's white label has BOTH "Hit and Run" AND "You'd Better Wake Up" written twice. "Hit and Run" is listed as by Gwen Owens twice (i.e. 2 different versions), and "You'd Better Wake Up" has Gwen Owens listed for the first version, and Telma (Hopkins) as the possible artist for the second version. The second one follows the colon, just as Gwen Owens does. Therefore, it must be a guess as to who the artist is, rather than the record company recipient of the recording. I doubt that that was a misspelling of "Thelma" standing for Thelma Records.

I can't believe that Martha Reeves would have sung a demo for Thelma Records in 1966, or, even as early as 1965. She had absolutely no reason to risk angering Berry Gordy at that time, to help out Don Davis or Joey "King" Fish, or just to make a little extra money. That makes no sense at all. On the other hand, her group's rumoured moonlighting, backing up some of J.J. Barnes 1963 and early 1964 Mickay's and Ring recordings, for her old bosses, Joe Hunter and Fred Brown, would have been a different story, considering that back then, Hunter was still also an important cog at Motown, and the group's money was still being "managed" by Berry Gordy. In that case, The Vandellas could help Hunter out, and get some needed cash, and, if caught, maybe just a slap-on-the wrist fine, because Berry likely didn't want to lose Hunter's services (he DID leave some months later near the end of 1964).

Yes, but wasn't that during the time in which he was between contracts and holding out for a better deal, and he got together with The Cavaliers, and booked some dates of gigs to get leverage, trying to get a better deal with Motown (then, he DID re-sign with Motown, after only some weeks in between)? I think that the recording listed as Martha Reeves might have been Martha Starr, or one of those other singers who sounded like her.

No, I never knew for sure that he was a songwriter or songwriter/producer with them. I just heard that as a rumour from one or two L.A. record collectors. I did see his name as co-writer on one or two of Hal Davis' Finesse Music published songs on small Hal Davis-related L.A. labels, which seemed to go along with the rumour. He was one of the group of Watts/South Central/South L.A. producers and songwriters who hung out together, and sometimes worked together on projects with the same small label, and he had one or two of his own productions, or self-written sons released on the same small L.A. label as had released Jobete songs, so I guessed that he might have been among the writers whose songs could be used by Davis and Gordon to offer to Jobete. Now that I've looked through all my records in those labels, I'm wondering if that was a reasonable conclusion. He may have just been a general colleague as a fellow South L.A. writer/producer, who crossed paths with all the Jobette crew, but never had actually worked on a Jobette project. Or, maybe I saw a Jobette song he co-wrote in another collector's collection, and I've since forgotten the record?

I never did understand why Martha would have recorded a solo for Don Davis, as late as 1965 or 1966, well after becoming a mega-star with Motown. She did record, along with her group members, some backgrounds for Joe Hunter, for use on J.J. Barnes releases in late 1963 and early 1964 (after "Heatwave", but before she had gathered in a lot of money, and while Motown was still parceling it out very slowly to her. I found it very hard to believe. And I wasn't sure, after listening over and over to it, that that was really Martha.

This woman has a higher pitch than Rose Batiste in her normal voice. So. I'm inclined to believe it is more likely to be Gwen Owens singing this, than Rose. But, it could be any of several women who sang for Davis by the early Solid Hitbound period. I have seen "guesses" of Gwen Owens" on uncredited Groovesville acetates, but I can't remember any true confirmation that Owens ever recorded for them. Has anyone here seen or heard any authoritative conformation that she had before the release of Revilot 204?

I seem to remember when Don Davis' "Groovesville" and other tapes were procured, some of them were unlabled as to the artist name, and there were "guesses" made when they came available to the public on "The Groovesville Masters or Tapes", released CD. What we do know is that many of the Don Davis-related Groovesville, Solid Hitbound, Golden World/Ric Tic, and Thelma cuts that were or were not released on record, had more than one, and often 2 or 3 versions made by different artists. Just like Motown, these off-Motown, Don Davis-related labels often had different artists record a given song, originally (sometimes one was originally a demo, whose vocal could later be given a full, finished mix, or tracks made with an earlier company still in Davis' hands, could be used with a different artist produced by Davis, while working with a later company). So, some of the artists on some of the artist-unlabled tapes of previously unreleased versions, are still not officially confirmed, (even though, being labeled with the non-confirmed "guesses" has semi-legitimized them from their familiarity.

The Stylistics on AVCO Int., and Gamble an Huff also having Neptune and Gamble Records, and being with Motown after Philly Int. There were many other labels that sported Philly-Sound productions.

I concur. In all my years of searching through, literally, over a million 45s, I've never seen nor heard of "Hit and Run" being on a pink label pressing.

No. Only some. My first one bought had them on correctly.