Robbk

Ha! Ha! I've bought hundreds of 45s in various cities, towns, and even a couple countryside swapmeets or markets all over England and Scotland, that came from The West Coast of USA, and bought over 50 UK issues in L.A. and a handful I found in The San Francisco Bay Area (about same distance from London as L.A. because, although it is not as far south, it is farther west, than L.A. Too bad I didn't buy any UK or US, or Canadian 45s when I was in Singapore, and Kuala Lumpur? Those are about as far as one can go from the East Coast of USA (half way around The World.

Thanks. It worked.

Actor, game show host, comedian, and anything but an accomplished singer, Robert Q. Lewis was another of "Winners Destined For Headlines in 1954". This "gem" was one of his hits: What surprises me is that this terrible song was written by such excellent Brill Building songwriters, Hal David and Leon Carr.

I dislike this much more than Cox's version. The guitar is nice (but only sporadic, a few notes at a time. The singing is abysmal. It's "corny", the kind of country farmers' music that drove me to "Race Music", back in the early '50s. Thank goodness we made annual visits to Chicago, back then, so I could get records.

I didn't know that Wally was a C&W yodeling cowboy singer! I had seen that RCA record hundreds of times back in the 1950s, but never had the guts to listen to it, and I never heard it played on the pop stations, back in Winnipeg. Once we got to Chicago, I never heard it, even though it might have been played, sporadically, as an "Oldie", on the Pop stations, - or, more likely, on the Hillbilly C&W stations. But. I didn't have any Hillbilly friends.

Are you telling me that Mr. Peepers WASN'T a SOUL singer??? Hoe kan dat nou????

You could tell that Rita was a Jazz singer by her singing style, even on this Soul song. It's sung like a Jazz singer singing a Broadway show tune. So, she was married to my favourite Jazz musician! I never knew that. One learns something new every day (besides forgetting other things).

Is that 400 miles from Detroit somewhere in Ohio? I also seem to remember a Ravins record on a turquoise Frank Brown , Michigan label (probably recorded in Detroit (Maybe Dearborn Records - I don't think it was MSK), from about late 1966 or 1967). THAT one was always the one I thought of was the hot Northern record. But now it seems that it was only the Demo Ristic record that was played on the scene.

I agree that there is no possible connection between the 2 groups. Upon listening to both sides of the Ravins' record again, I've come to the conclusion that the singer is Caucasian, and the name of the group is for the instrumental band, with one band singer included in their ensamble. 1963 all the way to 1969 is way too far, in any case.

As to the spelling of the group's name. If it is true that it was really The Ravens - that makes me wonder if it could then have been an outgrowth of the 1963 Detroit group on Mike Hanks' MAH's Records, The Royal Ravens. Jimmy Ricks' Ravens had broken up, with Ricks going solo in the mid 1950s, and later forming The Raves. So, the name "Ravens" was available in 1963, and the Detroit group was, apparently, the only one using it. The gap between them, and Dave Hamilton's Ravins/Ravens would have only been a couple years. They may have still been intact as a local Detroit group, doing local club gigs. Too bad so many of the old-time Detroiters, who were teenagers or older during 1963-1967, to whom we once had access, are now gone. I'll see if I can get ahold of a few, and ask them about the group and whether the record ever made it to shops and the radio.

The Ravins must have been a dead rare record, because I never came across it in any of the big Detroit collectors' collections, nor in my monthly bi-weekly record-hunting trips to Detroit during the mid-to-late 60s, nor in all my years of record hunting (starting to specialise in Chicago and Detroit R&B/Soul in about 1960. I flipped through literally millions of 45s during 1960-1995, and some thousands after that, and never saw it, other than a few scans after 2000. I'd bet it never got any radio play, and at BEST it only got hand-delivered to a few record shops in Metro Detroit (maybe not even that).

MY gap is even longer. I started accumulating records (78s) in 1953. That's almost 70 years ago. I replaced my earliest '50s records (mostly 78s) with 45s; and so, even though THOSE 500 or so first acquisitions aren't exactly the original "friend", the music is, and I'd miss them just as much. I could listen to probably 93-95% of the A-side songs on You-Tube, any time I want, and could obtain label scans of most of them. But it's not the same as having several walls covered with shelves of records like a Record Museum, where you can browse through label runs. I know so very many collectors who had to sell off large portions, or their whole collection just to finance their divorces or supplement their pensions just to survive during their retirement years. So, I feel very lucky that it's looking more and more like I'll be able to keep my collection intact until I die IF I can stay mobile enough to avoid having to live in an assisted living facility for incapacitated oldies. My father lived to 94 and was active and mobile, and living in his own house until the morning he died. He had only stopped working 6 months before that. His 3 sisters and mother all lived well into their 90s, and his father till 89. So, it's looking good for me, if I don't ride my bicycle in front of an oncoming tram on an icy night. However, I probably will have to stop dividing my year among five domiciles in 5 different countries. When I know my time is nearing (some time around 2050 (if I am too poor to receive the future life-extending theraputical medical adjustments)) I will find a good home for my records, where they will be appreciated.

Thanks. I've finally heard it. It was very, very ordinary, seemingly weakly inspired, if at all, and very disappointing to me.

Thanks for providing us this interesting back story. I read in several places, and heard from a few Chicago people who were in the music business back then, that Kirchstein was very angry at Talty for using his record label's name without his permission, and had considered a lawsuit.

Thanks. Where can I find a "Finewine Show"?

WOW!!! That Sue record, with songs written by Detroit singer/songwriter, Jesse Greer, was sung by Bobby Sanders' L.A. group???? I never imagined anything like that. But, Detroiter, Mickey Stevenson, wrote songs in L.A. for Leon Rene's Class records, so, I guess sometimes weird-looking situations are just a matter of personal connections through family, networking, or simply meeting people when traveling and making a connection.

These 2 ladies have different tones in their voices, even when they sing in the same key. Also, they have very different mannerisms. Betty Renay sings Bluesy, and uses a lot of tremelo, while Betty Renee sings a lot less emotionally, lighter material, a softer delivery, and doesn't use tremelo much, if at all. The first was from Philadelphia, and the latter from Michigan.

I don't think Betty Renne is just singing in a much higher register. Their voices seem to have different tones, as well. So, I doubt they were the same person. Betty James' "I'm A Little Mixed Up" is in my Top 5 all-time female Blues recordings (along with greats Memphis Minnie, Ma Rainey, Victoria Spivey, and Bessie Smith).

I've always wondered whether this Chandeliers group was a Detroit group, or the known New York group. Although Juggy Murray operated out of New York, he did lease at least one 45 production from Detroit (Freddie Brown's and Joe Hunter's "Toy Soldier" by Detroit's 1st Dramatics group. The songwriter was Detroit's Jesse Greer, who had been a member of Roger Craton's (Lee Rogers') Peppermints and Barons, and he wrote a lot of songs for Detroit singers and groups. I don't remember ever coming across any reference to a Detroit group by that name. The only New York Chandeliers I know of was the 1954-59 Doo Wop group from Kansas City, who recorded "Blueberry Sweet" for New York's Atlas Records. They DEFINITELY broke up in late 1959. So, they couldn't possibly be this 1963 group. Do any of you know if this was a leased Detroit production, or just Murray paying to use 2 Jesse Greer Detroit-penned songs, or Greer moving to New York, and writing for Murray's labels? I don't remember Greer's name on any more releases on any other of Murray's labels' issues, nor do I remember his name on any other NY releases.

Yes. My old memory is failing me. And I'm away from my records.

What about The Cavaliers that had a record out during 1963 on a Juggy Murray label that had songs written by Detroit songwriter/singer, Jesse Greer, who had been a member of a few well-known Detroit groups? Were they at all related to the RCA Cavaliers?

I meant even more correct.

Wow!!! You have quite a fast acting, logical mind, and general knowledge in a wide variety of areas, in addition to a good memory ........ not to mention the most important requisite...... a great knowledge of record labels. Hard to compete with all those strengths in combination! Very impressive. I'd just settle for my having a halfway decent memory (my memory of 50 years ago).

In Yorkshire it WOULD be correct! "warn 'er brothers"

88 - Peachtree (Atlanta)