Robbk

Nice to finally find out that ALL Garland Green's cuts with Jo Armstead involved, were recorded in Detroit.

IF Minnie Epperson recorded in Detroit during the mid '60s it would have been during the Joe Hunter/Don Robey deal. But, her peacock recordings didn't sound to me like they were recorded in Detroit, and I didn't see any credits to Hunter on her 45s. Do you have any documentation or quotes claiming she recorded in Detroit?

Regarding Fred Hughes' "Don't Bring Me Down"....... Hughes' producer with VJ Records was Chicago's Richard Parker, who ran VJ's L.A. production office, and was its main producer. He recorded some of Hughes' sessions in L.A., and some in Chicago. Parker had a Detroit connection in the mid 1960s, when he produced and recorded for Golden World/Ric Tic, I believe, as a part-time free-lance producer, rather than full time, while he still resided primarily in Chicago, but also, part-time in L.A. I always thought that "Don't Bring Me Down was recorded in Chicago, with Mike Terry travelling there, rather than Parker bring Hughes to Terry, in Detroit. However, Terry, in addition to periodically going to Chicago to record for Jo Armstead's and a few other Chicago labels, also worked heavily in Golden World Studios, on Ric Tic and Golden World sessions. Still, I think the odds are a lot greater that Parker brought Terry to Chicago, perhaps along with a few Motown Funk Brothers moonlighting musicians, to record "Don't Bring Me Down" and a few other cuts. I doubt that Terry flew to L.A. to record that for VJ. But, Chicago was a relatively short auto drive (a few hours), which Terry and moonlighting Funk Brothers and other Detroiters, like Fred Bridges, The Brothers of soul, Mike Hanks, Ollie McLaughlin, The Four Hollidays, The Funk Brothers/Andantes/other Motown Musicians, Andre Williams, and many others often made. Do you have documentation that that song was recorded in Detroit?

That scenario was also true in Germany, where since WWII, the German cities, especially near US military bases, adopted American Soul music in their clubs, and that music was also spread heavily by the children of American (especilly Black American) servicemen, who married and had children with German women. Naturally, young Germans, after that terrible war, blamed their parents' generation for "allowing" The Nazis to ruin their country, and its reputation throughout The World, and rejected their own past- and wanted to rebel against it-and follow a new and different path. US culture, brought by The US servicemen, was very different. And the Soul Music of The African-Americans was a lot more different from what they were used to, than US MOR Pop music. Lots of them adopted Lily-White Rock and Roll. But others, who wanted to rebel even more strongly against their Nazi parents' generation, could do so by adopting Black man's music, sort of spitting in Hitler's face (because he considered them inferior and subhuman. I'm surprised there weren't also mass conversions to Judaism, and adopting of Yiddish Klezmer Music!

THAT wasn't the driver in ALL these cases. At least in USA and Canada, sometimes it was a matter of the combination of too much talent, too many excellent productions to get onto the radio airwaves or into the clubs and other in-person venues, and poor choices made by record producers and record company quality control decision makers, and record company owners regarding what the public wanted, or knowing how to get their recorded songs to the potential listeners who WOULD HAVE loved to hear them. In USA and Canada, there were thousands of people who would have loved hundreds (certainly at least several thousands) of the Nothern Soul or Beach, or Shag songs that never made the radio, or were played on a light rotation for only a few days and didn't sell. They just never got the chance to hear them. These include mostly normal people, who were Soul music fans, but not major record collectors, and who would buy records only because they liked them, NOT with their rarity as a contributing factor. A LOT of the so-called "Northern Soul" wouldn't have been considered "crap" to such potential buyers. Most likers of Soul Music would have liked quite a high proportion of the Motown recordings that never came out (especially those that were recorded between 1962 and 1970, and a lesser, but still quite significant percentage of the Detroit and Chicago Soul recordings from 1964-70, and a lesser, but still significant proportion of the Philadelphia, New York, l..A., Texas, Miami, Memphis, and New Orleans Soul Music which was recorded during 1960-75. It was simply too much to get to the proper audiences. That is probably just the same in any industry. There are lots of different reasons why an existing product can't get to its potential market, in the best that would be best enjoyed by its potential consumers. That is one of the flaws of capitalism and human nature.

But, I've seen Thelma lists with Pat Smith having 3 different pairs of recordings (6 songs that could form 3 single releases. They all were written by Thelma Records songwriters and produced by Don Davis. At least the 2 slated for Thelma 103 had ZTSC numbers assigned, that matched the time period perfectly. Maybe Marvelous Ray WAS Pat Smith. Maybe Ms. Smith WAS someone named Ray, from Cleveland, using Pat Smith as a stage name, when contracting with Thelma Records in 1965, to be a vocalist on records for them. Maybe James Abner, from Cleveland, having the same last name as Ronnie Abner, who worked with Don Davis was just a coincidence. The Marvelous Ray version of Pat Smith's "Going Through A Whirlpool" sounds to me as EXACTLY the same recording, vocals same singer, instrumental exact same musicians and take and mix. So, IF my ears don't deceive me, I want to know how James Abner got those masters that should have been in Don Davis' or The Colemans' hands in January, 1966. If The Colemans sold those masters to James Abner, they would have also had to sell the publishing rights and copyrights to the writing of the songs, for those credits on the Abner record to be legitimate. But, I thought that the masters to those 2 songs were among Don Davis' masters obtained from his son during The 1990s. In any case, I hope we can find out the answers to the tie-ins between Thelma and Abner Records, and Marvelous Ray and Pat Smith. Do you Know if any of her other records on Abner had any other Thelma songs on them? Or other Detroit written, or Detroit produced/recorded songs? Did they list Ray's family name?

So, Marvelous Ray was a legitimate 1960s release of those Pat Smith Thelma recordings! Then, who was James Abner? Where was Abner Records located. How did Abner get hold of Thelma masters while they were still operating? What is the relationship of The Peps' Ronnie Abner to James Abner? Was Ronnie Abner's real full name Ronald James Abner? Interesting that Ronnie was co-writer with producer Don Davis on "Whirlpool" by Steve Mancha, and Don Davis was producer on both songs, but they are completely different songs, with different titles, different lyrics, different tunes, and different instrumental music. The label design and font are the same as Syd Nathan's Cincinnati King Records pressing plant. So, whoever put this out may have pressed it in Cincinnati. Thelma was still operated by The Colemans and Joey Kingfish Stribling in January 1966. But Don Davis was gone, and, Ronnie Abner and Tom Storm's Peps were gone, although, I'm not sure whether or not Abner was still writing some songs for them. Davis ended up with the masters from his own Thelma productions. So, I'd guess that he took them when he left Thelma in late 1965. But, it would seem odd to me for him to release a one-off issue on a one-off label pressed inn Cincinnati, and not use Groovesville music as the publisher. And why would Detroit's Ronnie Abner go to Cincinnati to press up a record? This all seems very strange. I hope some others here will know the answers to these questions.

Does anyone know who James Abner was? Ronnie Abner was a member of Tom Storm and The Peps, who recorded for Thelma (on their GeGe subsidiary label, and Ronnie was also an assistant producer to both Don Davis and Norman Whitfield, as well as a songwriter for Thelma. There must be some connection. Maybe Ronnie's full name was Ronald James Abner? I think that despite The Peps moving on to other labels in mid 1965, Ronnie continued writing songs for Thelma into 1966. The Abner label design looks like a common New York label design from 1965-67, but, was also Syd Nathan's Cincinnati-based King Records pressing plant's label design font for most of that labels 45 RPM producing period. I have also seen a few Detroit and Chicago, Texas, West Coast and East Coast records use it possibly into the early 1970s for re-issues, and maybe even issuing new finds from newly found master tapes and acetates of never-before issued recordings. Could all such records have been new issues to service The Oldies demand in USA, The Beach Scene, The French-Belgian-German Soul and and the UK NS Scenes? Steve Mancha's "Whirlpool" was written by Ronnie Abner and Don Davis. It is an entirely different song from The Pat Smith song that was discovered from her master tape, and looks suspiciously to me as if it must have been covered up as by "Marvelous Ray", and then became a "Hit" on The Northern scene, and there was so much demand for it (perhaps in the late 1970s or early 1980s?) that it was pressed up on the Abner records pressing. The people making the pressing order gave the song's real writer a nod, by using the name Abner, but, as it was still being covered up, didn't want others to discover what it really was, so it wouldn't be so "exclusive" any more, so they changed the first name to James. They used "Abner" for the label name as well to make it look somewhat feasible as a possible legitimate 1960s non-Detroit record, using the Cincinnati font.

Is this Marvelous Ray "Whirlpool" the exact same original Thelma Records early 1965 recording of Pat Smith singing that song? The instrumental is the exact same. The voice sounds exactly the same to me, as well. I wonder if the Abner label was owned by Ronnie Abner, who was, at that time, still a member of The Fabulous Peps, who also recorded for Thelma on their GeGe subsidiary label. Abner was also a songwriter and assistant producer with the company. This record list "James" Abner as the writer. I wonder how "James Abner" got ahold of the masters for this record, which should have been owned by Hazel and Robert Coleman or Don Davis, depending upon the agreement with Don Davis upon his leaving The Thelma Records partnership. And He took credit for writing the song, and somehow got the publishing rights, too.

Is this Marvelous Ray "Whirlpool" the exact same original Thelma Records early 1965 recording of Pat Smith singing that song? The instrumental is the exact same. The voice sounds the same to me, as well. I wonder if the Abner label was owned by Ronnie Abner, who was, at that time, still a member of The Fabulous Peps, who also recorded for Thelma on their GeGe subsidiary label. Abner was also a songwriter and assistant producer with the company. This record list "James" Abner as the writer. I wonder how "James Abner" got ahold of the masters for this record, which should have been owned by Hazel and Robert Coleman or Don Davis, depending upon the agreement with Don Davis upon his leaving The Thelma Records partnership. And He took credit for writing the song, and somehow got the publishing rights, too.

That gap between The Rose Battiste release in December '64, and the Joe Matthews in May '65, must represent the cash poor period Thelma experienced, plus some weeks to gear up the held up projects waiting on the initial lease front money. The Pat Smith songs were both recorded, but Thelma chose not to release them. Maybe, during that time gap Pat decided to end her career before it began (marriage, attending college, getting a decent-paying day job)?

Sorry. I was just going by the 2 dates you listed above for The Fedro and Wild Deuce articles in Record World. As you posted the Fedro article first and Wild Deuce second, I assumed the articles' dates would be in the same order. Given that the lease was agreed upon in March, then, it seems likely that Davis leased the record to Wild Deuce, because Thelma was out of cash, and the up-front lease "down-payment" portion would help them fund some other record recordings and pressings they had planned. I didn't see "Lucky To Be Loved By You" on Ron's list, so, that schedule, or slated list, must have been made after Davis, or Joey Kingfish had decided that it would need to be leased out.

I think "Time To Think It Over" was slated as the "B" Side of "Whirlpool".

Check out my post above this one, which mentions Pat Smith's scheduled, or slated release of "Whirlpool", as #103.

I've got it on turquoise commercial stock copy, and only ever seen that issue (3 copies (including mine). I think it was the rarest, by FAR. I never even saw it in one of the major Detroit Soul or R&B collectors' collections. Although, I believe one or two of the biggest had it.

Originally, I thought so too, but I saw a Thelma in-house scheduled release list(that Ron Murphy had a copy), that had a female single artist, Pat Smith, scheduled for 103 ("Going through a Whirlpool"). I think Thelma needed cash badly (which was one of the reasons Don Davis, later, decided to leave), and they were forced to lease that one out, because they didn't have the cash to press up enough copies to saturate the markets nationally, nor a relationship with a distributor who could handle that. I think it was Davis seeing the writing on the wall that Thelma Records was going to go out of business, rather than The Colemans forcing him out because he was doing a poor job, because the appointed their in-house band leader, Joey King Fish Stribling, to take over Davis' role as A&R man and chief producer, rather than having a better candidate than Davis ready to hire. So, it's most likely that leasing the Lasky record was just a desperate measure to bring more operating cash in to remain afloat.

I'm guessing that the vocals and instrumentals were recorded in Detroit(United Sound?), but the final mixes were done at RCA Chicago.

Sorry! I should have written: "why his name didn't appear on a producer's credit on Kapp Records DJ issues" issued after he left Pied Piper". Certainly, recordings released on Kapp, on which his name appeared as a songwriter, could have been written previously, when Hunter was working for Pied Piper under the RCA contract, during its early period, before they started also with Kapp.

I don't know where I saw Wilxy's reference to the Tobi Legend record on New York's Mala Records. But, that was also a Detroit production by John Rhys, who was working at that time for Harry Balk's Impact Records, as can be seen by Balk's music publisher's name, Gomba Music. This was a Detroit-based singer's Detroit production, leased to a New York record company Amy-Mala-Bell Records, in a pressing and distribution deal to get national coverage. So, it wasn't an out-of-Detroit label sending its New York artist to Detroit to take advantage of Detroit's music industry's talents and facilities. Melvin Davis' releases on Bell Records occurred for the same reason. Davis had produced them in Detroit, and leased them to Bell to get national distribution. George McGregor, another Detroit drummer and record producer also leased some of his later productions to major labels in New York to get national distribution. One of these was Rena Scott's "I Just Forget That Boy" leased to Columbia's Epic Records. After Ed Wingate sold off most of his Golden World assets to Motown, he produced recording sessions at United Sound Studio, and leased them to Wand and Columbia Records. Diane Lewis' "Please Let Me Love You", originally released on Golden World subsidiary, Love Records, was later leased to Wand, as was the follow-up record, "I Thank You Kindly", released directly by Wand. He also produced a record by The Players on Columbia. Other Correc-Tone leases to national labels were The Pyramids' 2nd release, "What Is Love?" leased to Chicago's VJ Records, Timiko's (Tamiko Jones') "Is It A Sin" (produced by Robert Bateman and Popcorn Wylie, and leased to Chess, Freddie Bridges' "Baby Don't You Weep", leased to New York's tiny, Versatile Records (Correc-Tone's version sung by Wilson Pickett had been leased to Double-L, and later was re-issued on Price's label's distributor, Liberty Records. Ha! - Writing this all out in a book illustrated with label scans would have been no harder than making all these posts!

As far as I know for sure, only Marva's 2 Correc-Tone recordings "Later For You, Baby", and "You Lied" that were leased to Bob Shad's New York label, Time Records, were recorded in Detroit, other than, possibly, "I Don't Care", which is the A side of her follow-up release to the Time record, on New York's Sahara Records, which was a Correc-Tone song written by Marva, ex-Satintone, and Correc-Tone arranger, Sonny Sanders, and Correc-Tone's main arranger, and in-house band leader, and piano player, Willie Harbert. If it was recorded in Detroit's Correc-Tone Studio, its master tape was also taken to New York by Bateman to lease along with the other 2 cuts, but Shad didn't want it. So, Bateman leased it to New York's tiny Sahara Records, run by later Motown producer Al Cleveland and Arthur Crier(former member of The Mellows and Halos). It sounds very like a Correc-Tone recording as opposed to the New York-sounding flip, "Heartbreak City", produced and written by label owners, Cleveland and Crier, and arranged by a New York arranger and band leader, Bill Ramal. The only other possibility was that Marva, herself, signed on her own with Sahara Records after Shad dropped her, without even trying a 2nd 45 on her, and she wanted to sing that Correc-Tone song she had rehearsed when with that Detroit label. After that, she signed with United Artists in New York, and did all her recording for them there. I assume that she had moved there from Toronto by then. After her UA contract was up, as far as I know, she recorded only Jazz, and none of that recording was done in Detroit.

Based on the 2 voices, I can tell that his girl was DEFINITELY NOT L.A.'s Marsha Gee, who recorded for Capitol's Uptown Records. I guess she was apparently an unknown singer who recorded this at Philadelphia's Virtue Studios, assuming someone found an acetate with no artist name. But, do we even know what the real Marsha Gee's real family name was?

The Buddah cuts by J.J. Barnes were just old Detroit productions leased by Don Davis to that New York label. It wasn't a New York record company sending its already-signed singer to Detroit to record better material to boost his sales. The Monitors and Henry Lumpkin are New York productions by ex-Motowner, Robert Bateman, deliberately producing his Motownlike New York recordings using Richard "T"'s band to simulate The Motown Sound. Buddah did NOT send The Monitors or Lumpkin to Detroit to boost their careers. Luther Ingram was completely produced by Bateman in New York, using Richard T's band. I sincerely doubt that Junior Parker-These Kind of Blues was recorded in Detroit, based on the musicians' play. And I doubt it was produced by Joe Hunter in Houston. Johnny Burke I thought was a Chicago artist, and Joanne was a Chicago label. The writers, Andre or Ric Williams, Carl Tarlton, Johnny Burke (and Dixon(perhaps Eugene(Gene Chandler?)-all Chicago. During the late '60s ALL of Andre Williams labels were located back in his hometown of Chicago. But, as for Duo, Mercury(Blue Rock), Zodiac, and his work with other Chicago labels,at that time, he DID take some of his artists to Detroit to record, so I can't rule it out. But the instrumentals on The Johnny Burke cuts don't really sound like Detroit musicians, or Detroit studio acoustics, or Detroit mixers. The ZTSC doesn't mean it was pressed for a Detroit label, as Chicago indie labels were pressed along with Detroit labels at Columbia Terre Haute, Indiana plant. And just because the song was published by Ed Wingate's Myto Music doesn't mean it was recorded in Detroit. It's just a song that was published by Golden World/Ric Tic's publisher, probably a few years before, (maybe written by Williams, himself, and he traded the shared publishing rights and royalties to those 3 other people, as a way to pay them money he owed them, that he couldn't pay in cash, as he was broke at that time). In any case, I really doubt that recording was made in Detroit. Johnny Daye looks a lot more New York than Detroit, being that Jomada was Johnny Nash's label, and he lived in and operated out of New York. And the flip side band was a New York band and arranger, and the song was written by Johnny's wife, Margaret. And, I don't recognise Johnny Daye as a Detroit artist. However, with Detroit's Just Music, from Just Productions as the publisher on the A side, and Detroiter, Willie Kendrick, and semi-Detroiter James Bryant, and his brother, Frank, who also lived in Chicago, but recorded sometimes in Detroit, and Johnny Terry (the Detroit/NY dealmaker) all involved, in addition to my having for many years heard that this cut was recorded in Detroit, I have to admit that it is certainly possible that Johnny Nash brought Daye to Detroit to get this recorded. The music and acoustics DO sound like it may well have been recorded in Detroit. But why only one side? I can't be certain, because I've never seen any proof. But, if I had a gun to my head, I'd vote for this being a Detroit recording. So, it meets the criteria. Laura Lee - late Disco - reminds me of a few of our own Airwave records! Laura was a Detroit-based artist. This was produced by Detroit's Don Davis. Fantasy was a California label. I really doubt that this was a case of Fantasy signing Laura Lee because her career was hot, and then they just decided to send her back to her home town of Detroit to record. It looks suspiciously, a lot more like Don Davis produced this recording in Detroit, on Detroit singer, Laura Lee, and then got a production/lease/distribution deal for her with Fantasy to get it distributed nationally, because he was, at that time, an independent producer, without his own record company with capability of nationwide record distribution. So, this production DOESN'T meet the thread's criteria. However, The Dells' version was produced by Carl Davis and Sonny Sanders. What makes you think they sent The Dells to Detroit to record this? To get The ex-Funk Brothers (who didn't move to L.A. to record it??? By the mid '70s how could anyone tell it was recorded in Detroit? I have heard that Chess sent The Dells to Detroit a few times to record. But I doubt that 20th Century Fox did this late (1980?) Betty Lavette on Calla Records - doesn't sound ANYTHING like a song recorded in Detroit. The arranger, Ernie Wilkes, worked out of New York. Producer, Don Gardner, worked out of New York, other producer and label owner, Nate McCalla, worked out of NY. The A-side song was written by Detroiters, Bob Hamilton and Don Juan Mancha, and published by Golden World's Myrto Music. This was clearly, simply a song that Laura had heard when she recorded for Ric Tic, and always wanted to record. And so, she got her New York company producers to okay her singing it. They did NOT send her back to her home town of Detroit to record it. Belita Woods was a Detroit-based singer, who was little known outside Detroit. I really doubt she would be sought out and signed by a national label outside Detroit, and then sent back to her home town to record. "I Just Love You" is clearly a Detroit production by ex-Motowners, Barrett Strong and Paul Riser, that found a nationally-distributed home with Epic Records on lease, rather than Columbia "discovering" Woods, and deciding it was best to send her back to her home town to record, and take advantage of "The Detroit Sound", which had lost a lot of ground to "The Sound of Philadelphia" by 1973. It would be a lot more likely that they'd sign her and send her from Detroit to Philadelphia to record. Tony Clarke - Landslide - I have heard for many years that this was recorded in Detroit, using many of The Funk Brothers. But, it doesn't sound like that to me. I doubt that it really was, until I see some proof of that. The Volcanos - The Laws of Love - I have heard for years that this was recorded in Detroit, using many of the moonlighting Funk Brothers. Although I've never seen any official confirmation of that, I can believe it is true, because I can hear Mike Terry's baritone sax, James Jamerson's bass, and some other Motown players on it. Interesting that it was written by The Vibrations' Carl Fisher, and also interesting that it doesn't list the producer or arranger, like most Arctic records do. Maybe that's because they didn't do it in-house, and the Detroiters took a little extra cash to not get the production credits? Ruby Andrews - I've Got A Bone To Pick With You - Definitely a Detroit production by a Detroit producer. But 1976 is WAYYYY too late for a record company to be sending a singer to Detroit to take advantage of "The Detroit Sound". This seems a LOT more likely that producer, George McGregor, didn't own a record company at that time, with enough assets and income to distribute press and distribute records nationally. So, this was him, placing his record in a pressing/distribution deal with a nationally- distributing label. Bridges/Knight/Eaton-Boo Records, Don Robey's Houston labels, and Charmaines, and Luther Ingram explained on other posts. Barbara Lewis on Stax's Enterprise Records - clearly wasn't Stax seeking Barbara Lewis out, and then sending her back to her home town to record to take advantage of "The Detroit Sound". But, it was was rather, Detroit producer, Ollie McLaughlin, placing his biggest star (also a southeastern Michigan resident) with a different national label to get her records pressed up and distributed nationally, after their deal with Atlantic Records was up, and Atlantic didn't want to renew their previous deal, because her sales were flagging. Stax was interested, likely because their own older, funky style, was starting to become stale, and they had already had started venturing into The Detroit sound by making a large production deal with McLaughlin's Detroit colleague, Don Davis. The deal with McLaughlin would dovetail right in with that and make that move stronger. Sharon Soul on Coral Records - This was strictly a New York operation. No Detroit recordings here! Ex-Motowner, now a full-time in New York producer, Robert Bateman, recorded all (New York singer) Sharon's songs in New York City, using Richard "T"'s Band, with the latter as arranger. Her most Motownlike and Detroity songs were written by Batemasn in his past Motown style. I can understand why the rumours started that these were recorded in Detroit, especially because Bateman returned to Detroit to record a few sessions for Mary Wells on 2oth Century Fox and Luther Ingram on HIB, and "His Love Is Amazing" is Bateman's most Motown-sounding New York recording. He really captured The Motown Sound on that one. But no one has ever proved that Sharon Soul ever recorded in Detroit. Willie Hatcher on Cotillion Records - Again, this is not Atlantic Records seeking to sign World Class star singer, Willie Hatcher, and then graciously allowing him to return to his home city of Detroit to record, because they wanted to take advantage of "The Detroit Sound". But, rather, it was another of those local producers trying to get a national pressing and distribution deal with a big company. Hatcher came along with a production/lease deal with Detroit producer, Don Davis, right after his deal with Stax (who was starting to have big cash flow deficits) pulled out of their deal with him, OR he pulled out from them because he foresaw problems in the future. In any case, Cotillion had to take Hatcher if they wanted to get Davis' star, Darrell Banks. Unfortunately, nobody expected that Banks would soon after be deceased after only one Cotillion 45). Exactly!

Stanley Mitchell was a Detroiter. Dynamo was one of the labels, subsidiary of Musicor Records, both of whose Soul Music production teams were run by New York producer Luther Dixon, with whom Detroit producer, Popcorn Wylie, made a production pressing, label credit, and distribution deal in late 1965, or early 1966. It also included recordings for The Platters for Musicor. Again, this record doesn't meet the criteria of this thread, as Mitchell was a Detroit artist, who came to the deal through Wiley. He had been lead singer of The Tornados, who recorded for Robert West, both on his Bumble Bee Records, and leased to Chess Records during the 1950s. He was not signed to New York's Dynamo Records before the deal was made. On the other hand, The Platters' cuts DO, however, meet the criteria, as THEY weren't from Detroit, and weren't recording for Wylie before the deal. They had been signed to Musicor, and their Musicor producer, Luther Dixon, decided, together with the group's members, that they wanted to get a new, fresh, modern sound - away from their mainstay sweet, heavy-stringed/orchestrated MOR-styled ballads. They wanted more Soulful material, and thought "The Sound of Detroit" would help them get there. The Platters had previously lived in L.A. and, I think, a while, after joining Mercury Records, and, I believe they were in New York after joining Musicor. So it WAS their record company, that sent them to Detroit.

Andrea Henry and Spyder Turner on MGM were simply both entire productions done in Detroit, but by Detroit producers, on Detroit-based singers, so they don't fit the parameters of what Wilxy wants. Those Detroit recordings were just leased to MGM, and so, those 2 artists were only signed to MGM after the lease was agreed upon. The Charmaines and Gigi and The Charmaines on Columbia and Date Records were totally Detroit productions, and only leased to Columbia by Detroit producer, Herman Griffin, after he made a pressing and distribution production deal with them. It's not like The Charmaines had been a New York group already signed to Columbia and were sent by them to Detroit to record. They were a Cincinnati group, the lead of which, Gigi, was Herman's one-time and future ladyfriend from when he lived in Cincinnati, before moving to Detroit. Her group, The Charmaines, had some regional hits on Cincinnati's Fraternity Records (one of them went national, as picked up by Dot Records). After ex-Motowner, Griffin, had been divorced from Mary Wells, and finally gave up on trying to get her to allow him to manage her career, he sent for Gigi, who came to stay with him in Detroit. He got her group the production deal with Columbia, and the rest of the girls remained living in Cincinnati, and only traveled to Detroit to record, and play some gigs. That really wasn't a case of Columbia sending their artists to Detroit to record and get a better sound. But, rather, it was a Detroit producer producing Detroit material on his group that lived far away, but would have come to Detroit to record, in any case, because that is where the producer operated. Emanuel Lasky's "Lucky To Be Loved By You" was NOT New York producer, Jesse Herring, sending his New York singer, Emanuel Lasky, to Detroit. Lasky always lived in Detroit. The 2 cuts on thisWild Deuce Record were leased to that New York label by their Detroit-based producer, Don Davis, who had produced and recorded them in Detroit for his Thelma Records, not very long before he split up, leaving from his partnership with Hazel and Robert Coleman (parents of Berry Gordy's first wife, Thelma). Part of the break up deal was that Davis would retain a number of Thelma master tapes of songs that had not yet been released by Thelma Records. In addition to these 2 cuts ("Our World" being the 2nd), he retained cuts by Rose Battiste, and several others, all of which remained among his own Groovesville master tapes, and were later released first on a bootlegged set of cassette tapes, and later on a CD, and some were also released on oldies reissue 45s labels. That is why some of those so-called "Groovesville" recordings sound so much like like Thelma recordings and less like Groovesville recordings, and why "former" Thelma artists ended up recording for Groovesville, which was surprising to many of us, when they actually never did record directly for Groovesville Records. In any case, this record doesn't meet the criteria of this thread. I've already explained the circumstances of Don Mancha and Travler's Honeybees record on a previous post.

Ollie McLaughlin was a from southeastern Michigan, a small town fairly near Detroit. So, his record companies were all located inside Detroit, and he generally recorded at United Sound, but, perhaps 25-30 percent of the time from 1960-64, he recorded at Universal in Chicago (mainly because he liked Chicago arranger, Riley Hampton's string arrangements, and the string orchestra section of session players he used. (side note: Motown used Hampton for strings from 1959-63) before they used their regular Detroit Symphony Orchestra crew, exclusively, starting in 1964). Ollie had his singers record in Chicago a fair amount during the early '60s, especially Barbara Lewis and Sharon McMahan. So, again, this is NOT non-Detroit labels sending their non-Detroit-based singers to Detroit, to record. Atlantic Records - Most of the Detroit productions appearing on Atlantic and its subsidiary and distributed labels were NOT involved with sending their NON-Detroit-based singers to Detroit to record, or not even hiring Detroit producers to produce and record background instrumental tracks in Detroit studios for their singers to sing to. They were, almost exclusively, national pressing/distribution lease deals with Detroit producers, making 100% Detroit productions on 100% Detroit-based singers, almost all of whom were not signed to the nationally-operating non-Detroit record company before being signed for the new production deal. For example, Detroit's Robert West made a production deal with Atlantic Records for them to press and distribute nationally, The Falcons' records in late 1963, after their deal with UA ended, and they had released only a couple singles on his own LuPine Records. So, THIS was NOT a case of Atlantic sending their singers to Detroit to take advantage of "The Detroit Sound". Another couple of Atlantic-distributed labels who released Detroit productions were Wilbur Golden's Correc-Tone and a subsidiary. In 1963, Robert Bateman (Correc-Tone's Operations Manager, A&R man, and Chief Producer) while trying to get Wilson Pickett signed to Atlantic (but failed-just selling a few songs to them ("If You Need Me" being one), did make a distribution deal with them, for them to distribute Correc-Tone (Theresa Lindsey's "Sugar Mountain"), and Correc-Tone Subsidiary (half owned by Golden and half by Herman Griffin, Hit Records (The Moments' "Don't Take Your Love From Me). At the same time, Bateman leased a bunch of Correc-Tone productions to Lloyd Price's Double L Records (Herman Griffin's "Mr. Heartbreak", Buddy Lamp's "Thank You Love"(written by Ivy Hunter), and enough independent productions of Wilson Pickett songs to make 4 Double -L singles plus a Double-L LP (4 songs of which had been Correc-Tone productions, but Bateman took them in lieu of missed pay when he quit Correc-Tone, from Golden's inability to pay him for all his work). Pickett then signed with Atlantic. They sent him to Memphis to record with Stax. But, I don't believe they ever sent him back to Detroit to record. I DO seem to have a faint memory of Atlantic sending Aretha Franklin back home to Detroit to record a few cuts.