Robbk

Yes, certainly.

Sorry, I am getting more senile than ever. I confused 1940s and '50s Washington D.C. and Toronto, Jazz, Swing, and early R&B band leader and record producer, FRANK Motley, with Detroit's Sam Motley, fusing them into one person, assuming that Frank moved from Toronto to Detroit during the '60s, and started producing Soul records. I wonder if they were related? Motley isn't a very common name. I can't find an emoji for embarrassment. Do we have one?

But, Ida Bennett, who led on the Bon/Reel Ambassadors' cuts may have been J.P. Bennett (JMM's business partner)' daughter. Nice to learn that The Sensation-Ivies were connected to The Ambassadors.

Wow! I've never seen that Ambassadors' record before! It looks like it might sound very good. I'd guess they were the same Ambassadors from Detroit that recorded "Power of Love"/"I Wonder Why" for Johnnie Mae Matthews' Reel Records. Those songs were written by a "G. Yensey (misspell of Yancey), with the usual J.P. Bennett and JMM added). I can't find it on You-Tube. Do you have a digital file of it? If so, can you post it - or, at least a snippet of it? I seem to remember having a couple of labels with the different Yancey names scattered on all their records. Not just JR and Panik, but, I can't remember which others there were. I've seen a C. Yancey, for Clemmer, a D. Clancey, and a G. Clancey. Maybe they owned JR, and possibly, Panik Records?

Sam was much more of a big name, nationally popular band leader than a record producer, despite his prolific production over his many years. He and his band toured The US Chittlin' Circuit (and a little in Canada) for many years, during the late 1940s through much of the 1950s, as one of the most popular R&B dance bands. He was originally from Washington, D.C., and produced records there, but also quite a bit in Detroit, and also some other East Coast cities. And his band was not only the "house band" on his own labels, but also for some labels owned by other people.

I like it. But any Ramsey Lewis fan can tell that's NOT him playing the piano.

Good point! It's obvious that a NS (or at least General Soul) record dealer copied Jobete Music N.Y.'s official demo record label, strictly to use in confusing collectors into thinking post 2000 acetates are 1960s Motown in-house originals, for the express purpose of being able to sell them at high collectors' prices (with the fallback that when they are accused of fraud, they can always claim they found these "records" as is, and simply didn't know whether, or not, they were 1960s originals.

It seems someone either got ahold of a blank Jobete Music Co. New York label, or photocopied one, and placed it on a new acetate made of Brenda Holloway on one side and Jimmy Ruffin on the other. It most likely is a recent concoction, not an original from the 1960s, as Detroit operatives didn't use Jobete N.Y. labels, and didn't make 2-sided acetates, and didn't place 2 different artists on 7 inch acetates (although they DID sometimes have different artists on the larger ones). I can't see a situation in which The New York Jobete Office would have made an acetate pairing two unreleased songs by two different artists who recorded those songs in Detroit.

Motown as a company made different kinds of acetates for different purposes. But, as far as I remember, I can't remember seeing 2 different types of Jobete Music Co. labels, other than 7 inch, 10 inch and 12 inch sizes. It was Motown Record Co. that pressed acetates for demos, that had sound recording co. labels, and other label designs. I don't remember seeing any Jobete Music proof of ownership acetates having been recorded on both sides, nor using the label design on the blurred photo, certainly not on any that were recorded in Detroit. I do remember seeing some acetates with a somewhat similar label design to that shown in the blurred photo, but can't remember if they were Motown Record Corp. or Jobete Music Co. acetates. It may be that Jobete Music, N.Y. used that label for demo acetates. But they wouldn't have been demoing a Brenda Holloway sung song, which was recorded in Detroit. The proof-of-ownership acetates for songs that were written by New York's Jobete Office's writers, with Brenda as the ultimate singer would have been sung by a N.Y. Office singer, like Tamala Lewis, Norma Jenkins, Carol Moore, or the like. A Brenda Holloway acetate for such a song would have been made for a different purpose, such as for use by Quality Control, in Detroit, and would have been pressed at Motown, or in a local, Detroit sound studio - NOT by Jobete Music, N.Y. And it wouldn't have a Jobete Music Co. label on it, but, rather, a Motown Corp. label, non-owner indicated generic typed label, with little information, or an outside sound recording studio label. Jobete N.Y. would have made acetates only of the songs written by their staff for potential use by East Coast non-Motown artists, and only sung by their own staff singers. If I could see the label better, it might trigger my memory for remembering any oddity that wasn't memorable enough for me to recall, at the drop of a hat. I'm a very visual person, and seeing something from many years ago would take me back to that long-past time, just as hearing old sounds, or smelling old smells do. It's been 40+ years since I was at Motown, so, I need a little help for obscure less-memorable memories. If a gun were put to my head and I had to guess correctly, I'd guess that it isn't a true, normal, Jobete Music proof-of-ownership acetate. But, I can't rule it out as a possible legitimate original Motown pressing, until I see it with decent clarity.

This one is really interesting to me because Joe started in the business before most of the rest, so he was around during the pre-Soul R&B heyday.

You're an outdoorsman? Had I known THAT, I'd have invited you on innumerable back-country skiing, peak-climbing, and snow-camping trips!

I got priced out of collecting more than half a life ago!

I think I remember that The Sternphones also back up Gino Washington on a couple of his cuts, when The Rochelles didn't. I think they were with him on one of his Wand 45s, and the other one was The Rochelles (his high school group members).

Not in 1965 or later, which was when Kingfish wrote and recorded "I Won't Hurt You". Don Davis had already left for Golden World, and his own Groovesville Records. Whitfield had left for Motown, and so had assistant producer, Richard Street, and his group, The Majestics. After Davis left, Stribling was Thelma's A&R man, chief producer, and in-house band leader, with other producers, Clay MacMurray, Don Juan Mancha, and James Goffphine, and arrangers, Floyd Jones and Rudy Robinson. By the way..... organist/pianist Rudy Robinson (who worked with Mike Hanks, but also moonlighted at Thelma, as well as many other labels), was also a possible chartwriter for the music. But, actually, the publishing was shared by Thelma, Don Davis' Groovesville Music, and Don Davis' and LeBaron Taylor's Solid Hitbound Productions. And it was listed as a Solid Hitbound Production. So, I think Joey brought this song with him from Thelma when he left them in 1966 (probably when Motown bought them out), and before he started working with Diamond Jim Bradley, to his old boss, Don Davis at Solid Hitbound. So Davis might have written the charts (or Steve Mancha or Melvin Davis, both of whom worked with Don at Groovesville Records).

I would guess that he corroberated with someone else at Thelma to get the music written down. It probably wasn't Don Davis, because, I believe Davis had already left Thelma to concentrate on his Groovesville Music and record label, and to work with Ed Wingate's Golden World labels by the time the song was written. It must have been the arranger in Thelma's house band (and that band was probably Stribling's own band he also used for his local gigs). Unfortunately, unlike many record companies, Thelma didn't usually credit the arrangers on their records' labels. The only one I have listed is Floyd Jones. He was probably a musician in Thelma's house band (which was also Fish's gigging band). I wish we could find out which other musicians were in it. I know that James Jamerson was a musician there in 1961 and '62 (and possibly into early '63), before he started working exclusively for Motown. But, he most likely wouldn't have had time to moonlight at Thelma by 1965-66.

I have only The Royal Premiers and The Vandelettes, and I think I've seen an Unforgettables on Mellow Town. I've never seen a ZZZ record. I may have seen a Samone record, but never noticed that it had the same San Antonio address. The Royal Imperials were a San Antonio group, and definitely NOT Billy Butler and The Enchanters. I've seen another Mellow Town or two, but can't remember what they were. Maybe one of them was a second Royal Imperials. I would guess that "Bags & Beans" are the two producers and label owners: "Bags" Stewart and J. "Beans" Means.

Excellent!!! Thanks Graham. Keep 'em coming!!! It would be nice to have all of these on a single website, like Bob A.'s "Sitting in The Park". And it would be nice for all that you learned about Detroit Soul music (labels, artists. producers, arrangers, musicians, distributors, recording studios and engineers) in a mini encyclopedia of Detroit soul music, divided into several volumes. It would be nice if I'd write one, too. But I'm too old and tired to take on such a large project.

I knew he was a guitarist, and played on sessions, but I didn't know that he was the in-house band leader both at Thelma and Diamond Jim Riley's labels, and maybe even for a while at Check-Mate. I also didn't know he worked for Motown for a year. He said that Hazel Coleman got him in there. He worked with Marvin Gaye. That would have to have been just after he was at Thelma (Late 1965 and early 1966 - just before he started with Riley, or between Check-Mate (late 1962-early 1964) before joining Thelma. I wish I could hear those parts of the interview better. His bands played a lot of gigs as the venues' house band, backing up different appearing acts. I also hadn't known that. I wonder who else was in those bands of his.

Before Joey Kingfish (Joey King Fish) was a songwriter and later, producer, with Thelma, he was a recording artist with Billy Davis at Check-Mate Records. I'm really looking forward to listening to this interview. I'm curious to know with which other Detroit labels he worked. I DO remember seeing his name connected with at least a couple other labels on a few later records. But, I'm even more interested in his beginnings in the industry, given that he looked quite old in all the Thelma period photos I've seen of him.

Excellent! Nice to learn more about The Magictones' later period. I didn't buy their records in the 1970s.

I don't believe "Alone" would have stuck in his head more than the recorded and released song, given that he and the group would have had to sing the released song in practices, the recording session rehearsals, the session, gigs after the release, and rehearsals for them. I don't think that is even possible. Sorry, I meant The Peps OTHER Ge Ge record. It wouldn't make sense if "That's The Way Love Is" had been their 2nd release, given that Storm remembered it as their 1st. I have both records, plus Eddie Hill's 502. Apparently, this first Ge Ge issue should have been # 501, if they had decided on a numbering series before pressing it. I wonder what "Ge Ge" stands for, and if it was a partnership between The Colemans and either Armen Boladian or Norman Whitfield?

Thanks. Yes, I've read before that Parker produced Hughes' VJ/Exodus sessions in L.A. It seems though, that Parker was bouncing back and forth from L.A. to Chicago, because he was still running sessions in Chicago, too during that period (a few for VJ, and some as a free-lance producer).

I've never heard of any connection between these 2 singers. Al Hughes was from Detroit. I was told that Fred was from L.A., but, I believe that he was originally from Chicago, because he was signed by Chicago's VJ Records, and his songwriter and producer, Richard Parker was also from there. I've listened to both songs many times. I'm convinced they are NOT the same person, and that their unique tones are not similar enough to guess that they are brothers or cousins.

But Storm said in his interview that the first song he ever recorded was written for him by Whitfield, and it was titled "Alone". If he hadn't ever recorded it, I would guess that he'd have remembered that he and his Peps had recorded "This Love I Have For You" as his first recording. "That's The Way Love Is" was the flip of "I Love You" on Tom Storm and The Peps' other Ge Ge release.

So Tom Hester became "Tommy Stone", and then, "Tom Storm", who first sang "Alone", which must be the first recording to which Storm referred in his interview. And it seems it was soon re-written as "This Love I Have For You", and paired with "I Love You, Baby", and released on Thelma's subsidiary label, Ge Ge Records. So, the original recording of "Alone" may no longer exist. Davis may have taped over it, as they were no longer going to use it at all.