Robbk

(1) I didn't know that even a 2nd copy was found after mine. How many of them are known now? How many Jackie Day Phelectrons are known? (2) Leipzig is a helluva lot farther from L.A. than 1,000 miles! Maybe it is 1,000 miles from Lancashire? What do you mean by the record being published 40 years later than 1990, or 1965? (3) I didn't know there was a 2nd Terri Goodnight Phelectron record! Can someone post scans and sound files (at least snippets) of it? Did Jackie Day have more Phelectron releases? Did Phelectron issue rercords sung by any other asrtists? Was this record obtained from the producer (Ken Easton), or from Johnny Cochran? I found "The Victory Song" on YouTube. Terri's singing is not very good, but the instrumental is awful, noisy and tinny. They really didn't know what they were doing. I also never saw that one, or heard anything about it. I'd bet that it never got to a record shop.

My guess is that it was a test, AND a cost-saving measure. And it was recorded 2 or 3 years after "I'd Think It Over". Is there a date anywhere on the record? Does the 10 incher have a date on it?

African-Americans didn't make up traditional English surnames like "Willingham". Usually those surnames came to African Americans' families from their ancestors having been slaves on British or former British, later American landowners' plantations. So Doris Duke could have shared a surname with former Pastel, J.B. Willingham, by marrying former Cadillacs group member, Gus Willingham. As both The Pastels and The Cadillacs were New York groups, maybe Gus and James were cousins. Or, maybe they were simply both descendants of different slaves who had lived on the same plantation, or 2 different plantations owned by related owners named Willingham. In any case, they are at least loosely connected by having a surname that started from a town or village in Cambridgeshire, or in Lincolnshire. And thus, they'd be, at least, connected in that same way, with English families whose surname originated from their ancestors having come from those places. Your friends might even be related by blood to those R&B singers, IF their ancestors were related to those plantation owners. We all know how THAT sort of thing happened. Did Karl have any American Colonial plantation owners in his family history?

(1) Maybe "J.B. Williams" was an alias used by singer/Songwriter J.B. Willingham? He had been a singing member of The Pastels. And, more pertinent, as a prolific Brill Building (Screen Gems-Columbia Music songwriter, he was likely using Associated Recording to record most of his demos, as it was only a couple streets (blocks) away. He could have been just getting a demo of his own song recorded, for pitching to prospective artists or major record labels. I can't place Williams' voice with Willingham's, as Dee Erwin (Ervin) was The Pastels' lead, and I don't remember hearing Willingham sing solo. But the singer on the file above, singing "I'd Think it Over" had a very smooth, trained voice. He could easily have been a member of The Pastels, who sang great 5-part harmony. It could also be just one of Screen Gems' regular ad-hoc demo singers. (2) IF the song was published by The Hill and Range Music Publishing Co., AND the recording project was a demo being recorded by that company for later marketing to record companies or individual singers, WITHOUT yet having any involvement with prospective clients, then I suppose you could call the demo recording "project" a "Hill and Range Production". It seems like a strange way to refer to it. It makes it seem as if you thought Hill and Range had its own record label (as a division of their company). But "I'd Think it over had nothing to don wit Hill sand Range. And the Soul song, "Don't Wanna Be Hurt No More" doesn't sound, at all like a Hill and Range (old-fashioned Tin Pan Alley-style) song. I'd bet that that was a BMI song, and could easily have been another Screen Gems song, recorded a few years later. I wouldn't have guessed that a major, like Screen Gems (Colpix (Columbia Pictures) would be so cheap, as to use the same ancient demo record 3 times! Or, at least twice. "Ooh Bop Sha Bam" was a Jazz standard written by Dizzy Gillespie. Maybe this demo was first made by Willingham for his Pastels in 1956? I looked at my Pastels' records on Mascot and Argo, and as I remembered, they never released a version of that song. There WAS a Jazz vocal version, Even Billy Eckstine sang it. So, maybe The Pastels sang that song in their repertoire for auditioning to get record label contracts before they signed with Mascot in 1955? This makes sense, as J.B. Willingham wrote first for Aldon Music (Al Nevins/Don Kirschner), which was later bought out by Screen Gems-Columbia Music. "Oh Bop Sha Bam", likely a '50s written and performed song, was probably first cut on this demo record as a one-sider, and maybe Associated gave a discount to Willingham on his recording, in 1964, to let them cut his new demo on the unused flip side. I looked up J.B. Willingham on ASCAP, to see IF he ever got a song of his published by Hill and Range. They have no record of one. The credit to "W. B. Willingham" on Sam Fletcher's Tollie record was a printing error. It should have read: "J. B. Willingham". BMI website lists (correctly) J. B. (James) Willingham as the writer. The other song, "Don't Wanna Be Hurt No More" was probably sung by a Screen Gems-Columbia songwriter or demo singer for a later project. So they re-used this demo record. It's got a much later sound, like 1966 or 1967.

It probably didn't sell even a handful. I never saw it in any shop in 1965 or 1966. I'd guess it had no commercial sales. I found mine along with the Jackie Day in a Goodwill thrift store in South Central L.A. We didn't stock it at any of the 3 Dolphin's of Hollywood stores. Neither did Flash, Sam's, Crain's, Pat's, Lonny Cook's record shop, or any of the other LA stores, Chicago or SF Bay Area stores have it. It was the only copy of that record I've ever seen or heard of. While, it seems that a couple other copies of Jackie Day have turned up since. I don't remember seeing it at the local distributors in L.A. I frequented Record Merch. once a week. That was the main outlet for local Indie Soul labels. It never got there. The fact that even the Jackie Day release didn't get stocked in local shops tells me that Phelectron didn't know the first thing about how to market local Soul records, and had no connections with distributors, record shops, local DJs, or anyone else in the record business who could get their records heard, or even seen by the public and known to exist. I'm sure that Jackie Day was pissed that her record couldn't even get known to exist in public awareness. Even if she didn't get her full residuals from record sales and Juke Box use from The Bihari's Modern Records, at least she was able to earn a living with personal club appearances, because her Modern cuts got some airplay on local Soul stations. Terri Goodnight, on the other hand, probably had no singing career, at all, as I never saw a venue appearance advert poster, her record in a shop, never met anyone who had heard of her, never heard of anyone else finding another copy of her record, and she didn't sing well enough to pass a tryout to get a nightclub gig.

The name Trebishaw rings a bell in my distant memory. But, I'm not sure where I heard it, or if it was linked to a new car dealership (in its title). I also can't connect it at all to being involved in financing music recording projects. Maybe he did some of his own car sales TV commercials, saying, "Hi! I'm Al Trebishaw. Here at (Chicago Suburb name)_ _ _ _ _ _ _ Ford, or Chevrolet, or Buick,..etc. We're bustin' with bargains on our last year's models!" But I don't remember his surname being in a dealership title. Maybe he was a silent partner in a small Chicago record label or two. I can't remember where I heard it. But it's an unusual name, the kind that sticks in the mind. Like Debrackishaw. We should ask The Yank if he remembers him having a car dealership.

All of the Motown people seeking outside work had an in with VJ when Barrett Strong worked there as a major songwriter and assistant producer, during late 1962-64.

Never saw that J-2. It must be very rare. As to the Poets, at least one or two boxes of that one must have escaped Juggy's cache.

Never saw that J-2. It must be very rare. As to the Poets, at least one or two boxes of that one must have escaped Juggy's cache.

Yes, I knew all about Freddie The Mailman Brown, who part-owned Kable and Mickay's records, and bought out Mickay's Record Shop. He wrote a LOT of songs with Joe Hunter. Yes your sentence referencing Brown wasn't clear at all. I didn't know he wrote for McCoy. In fact, I think this was a different F. Brown.

The F. Brown could be Detroit songwriter and producer, Frank Brown, who wouldn't be the singer named "Fred".

Maybe that J-2 record ONLY made the "Pick Hit" category because the error was made, listing its label as "Sue Records" due to recent familiarity with The Poets being a Sue contracted group, as Sue's distributor may have told radio stations NOT to plug Juggy's new J-2 label's releases because Sue's assets were in receivership, and there were questions as to whether or not the J-2 releases had been recorded and paid for using Sue's assets, which had been awarded to Sue's creditors.

Freddie was also a producer at Motown very early. He was part of The expanded BrianBert team, of Brian Holland, Robert Bateman, and Freddie Gorman, starting in late 1960. He started as a songwriter and singer with Detroit's Quailtones in 1955 (who recorded for Josie Records). He was also with Detroit's Fidelitones on Aladdin Records in 1957 (along with future Motowners, Brian and Eddie Holland, and Sonny Sanders). He had 9 years in the music business before joining Golden World/Ric-Tic. Great guy. I had the pleasure of working with him at our own Airwave Records. May he rest in peace.

Well, if such a saving move DID occur, nothing of extra-ordinary value or significance came from it as I don't remember any great unknown finds showing up on auction or in a book on Juggy's life or his record industry career, or rare or unknown records or tapes being discovered. The guy who saved his stuff must be hoarding it to himself. My guess is that it's all deteriorating back to soil in some landfill in New Jersey, owned by The Mafia.

Thanks Graham, for posting this great tape of Ron telling an inside view of what went down back in the day. Like Nick wrote, above, - it's nice to hear Ron's voice again. I learned some things in this one. Nothing unexpected about The Lemons. Some unpleasant happenings about small record labels, and how they got treated. I went through that stuff, too with Airwave. You had to put up with a lot if you wanted to bring good music to the People. You could hear it in his voice, that Ron was excited about making good music. He had a LOT of energy back then, especially back in the '60s and early '70s. Interesting stuff about Forrest Hairston and Viney Records and his recording studio. Too bad, not only for Ron, but for Hairston, HIMSELF, that he let his ego ruin his chance to make a decent living in the music business. I just thought that he had no chance from the beginning because his operations were so small, and he couldn't get a major backer. I didn't know that major outside producers wanted to rent out studio time and he turned them down because he was recording his own artists whose projects had no financial backing. Tough break for Ron, who could have had regular work if Hairston had only listened to reason. I can't believe the pressing plant sent thousands of pressed records that Viney didn't order, and made Hairston pay for them, that killed the chances for his record company to get off to a decent start. To be honest, I didn't like either side of his record, at all. I would have steered clear of The Lemons(es). They had a terrible reputation. That was true of a LOT of people in the record business. But, walking right up and asking for trouble isn't my idea of a good decision. But, I love to hear stories about what went down in the '60s and '70s. It brings back a lot of fond memories.

It's a shame that all Juggy's memorabilia, paperwork, tapes and record stock was lost to posterity.

We DIDN'T stock ANY of the J2 releases at Dolphin's of Hollywood. I didn't see it stocked at Crain's, or Sam's, or Flash, or any of the other Ghetto record shops. I DID see a few copies of The Poets' J2 record later, maybe they came to the West Coast as cutouts from Walgreen's or Woolworth's. I also didn't see them stocked in Chicago. I saw The Poets record maybe a few months after it was released. I didn't see the Baby Washington until maybe 1970 or 1971. THAT was dead rare. I saw a fair amount of The Poets on J2. But that might have been in The Midwest. In any case, The Poets' was a rare record, and The Baby Washington was much more rare. As far as I remember, The Poets' J2 record got no air play on WBEE, WVON, KGFJ, KDIA, or any of the Chicagoland, California, or Detroit stations. And, of course The Baby Washington J2 was completely unknown. Some collectors that had connections to The East Coast knew about The Poets' record. I remember having seen a couple other J2 records. But I can't remember who the artists were. I don't remember seeing them as regularly stocked records in 1967 in retail shops. They probably arrived as cutouts. Those others would have even been rarer than The Poets'.

You can post a link to a YouTube music file (MP3 or MP4) by typing or copying the web address (URL) from the Internet address bar at the top of the page into your post window, or you can right click on the picture of the music file to copy it, and then paste it into the "file drag area" below, where you see the paper clip icon and the words: "drag files here to attach".

I'm in L.A. now, and have been since The Covid Pandemic started. I've looked everywhere in my house and storage for the tape, and the personal CD that was made for me which I think had a copy of it. But have found neither. One or both may be sitting in my flats in Holland, Denmark or Germany. But, with a skipping heartbeat, I don't want to travel before I get a heart pacemaker surgically installed. That won't happen until my cardiologist recommends that, based on the missing beats becoming too frequent. That's likely to happen within the next 3 years, but we don't know when. In any case my 35-40 year old cassette tape is bound to have deteriorated (usually cassettes dry out and have weak spots or dropouts). I know that quite a few of the major NS collectors bought those Groovesville Masters Tapes, and likely most, if not all of them eventually had them converted to CDs or other digital formats. We should be able to get a much better copy than my cassette version from one of them. We've currently got some requests in to people who are likely to have the recording on digital. I'm sure we'll be able to get a file sent to us.

Unfortunately, I have neither of those CDs. But I CAN tell you that on the real Pat Lewis demo tape, on the cassette release, and on the individual tape made for me, Pat Lewis' vocal was much more prominent than the strings and horns, and all the instrumental other than the bass, which seemed too strong for my taste. The instrumental on that version was a lot more basic, and I'm not sure if one of horns or strings was missing altogether. Bass, and guitar were clear, with bass much heavier. Other than that, I'm not sure. It's been a lot of years since I've listened to it. I'm hoping that someone with the 2 CDs will upload the 2 cuts. There must be someone on this thread that bought the CDs, or know someone that worked for Goldmine.

So, Goldmine Soul Supply issued a CD on those same Groovesville Masters that were released on the cassette tapes set? There were enough for at least a couple CDs. But, maybe Goldmine only put the best 30, or so, on it. So, Don Davis and LeBaron Taylor must have paid for Terri Bryant's recording session and got re-imbursed for those costs in their fees to Avant or Verve, if Davis kept her session tapes with his Groovesville Records master tapes. That means that BOTH Terri's and Pat's versions were in his archive. And Goldmine's staff got them mixed up. I'd guess, then, that the wrong version is also on that CD. I wonder who has those Groovesville master tapes now? Did Davis' son sell them off, or just lease them?

That's because it's an alternate mix of Terri Bryant in the George McGregor/Don Davis produced session for Verve. But I've heard the Pat Lewis demo version, with a good vocal, but less complex (more sparse) instrumental, among the "Groovesville Master Tapes" that were introduced to The NS Scene near the end of the 1980s, and (if I remember correctly) the best of which were played from carvers by a couple DJs, and not long after (about 1990?) were made available (sold) to collectors in the form of a set of cassette tapes. I got tapes of all those I thought sounded good (several were nowhere near finished (demos in early stages)). There were adverts for them in several NS fanzines/magazines/newsletters. I'd guess that you remember them, Chalky, and might have bought a set yourself, or bought those that were later pressed on vinyl records on UK re-issue labels. As far as I know, this supposed "Pat Lewis" cut is the only one that was botched, using the wrong recording. I can't remember what they all were, but several were unreleased Steve Mancha, J.J. Barnes, Pat Lewis, Melvin Davis, Darrell Banks, and a few GW/Ric-Tic artists I didn't know recorded for Don Davis/Solid Hitbound. There were also one or 2 Detroit Soul artists I didn't know recorded for either Don Davis OR Ed Wingate.

Yes. I would bet that Don Davis and George wouldn't want to pay another drummer, when George was right there anyway, and likely a better drummer than they would get -ad Hoc. And George was the producer, and knew exactly what he wanted for his song.

You should get ahold of the cuts from The Groovesville Masters Tapes. Lots of Soulies got them, plus carvers were made, and I'm sure people would be glad to send you a digital copy. I didn't like the sound quality of the originals very much, as it was clear that several of their instrumentals were sparse and basic, because they were just demos made for Davis to lease the songs. As I recall, on Pat's version, the bass was much more prominent and the strings were light and pushed way back in the mix (if they were there at all). It's been a lot of years since I listened to it. But the vocal was quite different from Terri's, and good too, as Pat had more range (and really, I rate her a much more polished singer). The background is disappointing next to the finished, "A" side (hit treatment) McGregor/Terry and Don Davis gave the commercial version. But, that's par for the course with demo versions. If any of you get a friend to send you a digital file of Pat's version, please upload it on this thread, so that everyone can know about Connoisseur's error.

Another thing..... I don't think the singer on the Connoisseurs record above is Pat Lewis (or at least the recording being played on the video is not). They put the wrong recording on the video. That voice sounds EXACTLY like Terri Bryant. And, I even think it's her Verve take on the released record, possibly with a slightly different instrumental mix. I have the Groovesville Masters cassette tape from 1989 or 1990, that was issued not long after it was discovered in Don Davis' tape archive. Bryant's voice is light and breathy with a very high register, while Pat sang with a fuller voice at a deeper register. Listen to "Warning", "I'll Bet You", "No One To Love", "Let's Go Together", "Look At What I Almost Missed". Those 2 Ladies had quite different voices, with different tones and sung at different registers. The real Pat Lewis version had Pat's deeper voice, as well as a more simple, basic instrumental background mix, in which the bass was more prominent. I don't have an operating cassette deck with me nor the cassette, so I can't convert it to MP3 or MP4 for you all to hear for yourselves. But it is clear that someone made a mistake trying to identify an unlabeled tape.