Robbk

Excello had records pressed in several plants at the same time. Those all look like designs I have or have seen with legitimate releases. Usually, the print of the boots looks a bit shakier, as it comes from a photo. Sheldon, Nashville Matrix or the like (mastering references) stamped in the track should be proof that its real.

So, only one of The Four Gents' SVR singles was leased by HBR. They were the same Four Gents that were on Detroit's Oncore Records, but not the same as some other, earlier Four Gents groups from other parts of USA. One of those was a Chicago group from 1954-58, who recorded for Park Records in 1957. Later producer/arranger Eddie Sullivan was a group member.

Weren't there also a couple of Four Gents' recordings from Detroit's SVR label leased and put out out by HBR?

That was pretty common. It's not much in demand. I doubt that it would cost much at all.

If it is a 3rd or 4th press run they wouldn't need any new demos, just additional store stock to fill the vacant store shelves because of increasing demand for a record that's being heard a lot on the radio.

Chess 1740 is from early 1959. I doubt that the poster was trying to use that as an example of a "late" printing of that design. Rather, he was only using that to show how a white DJ copy on that particular design, looks.

I doubt that Bob Cattaneo got those tapes from Motown. But I do remember that Simon Soussain had been in Motown's offices. I wonder if he got someone there to make tapes for him? Did any of you buy any acetates from Simon?

I've seen ALL those variants (several times) in my USA 45 canvassing days (1953-1972). They are ALL from the 1960s, but not sure if some weren't pressings for later issues. However, it seems really odd that one pressing plant would be using the dark blue Chess design 3-4 years late, just because they (Chess) didn't want to pay (again) for new label printing.

I disagree. I've seen many hundreds of Arvee records. I have most of the run. I have seen a good portion of them with white DJs that read "Promotional copy-Not for sale". There were a few colour variations (orange, pink, yellow, red-orange), which NEVER listed "Promotional Copy". I suspect that the colour variation was simply due to different colour schemes at different pressing plants, although the late use of yellow, might indicate a label change for the series directed by the company, itself. But, I am confident that the Pinks were store stock. I bought them from stores, at the same time as orange was being used, and at the same time as white DJ copies were circulating. Here's a WDJ of a Johnny Guitar Watson: Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I'd guess it was just one plant using the old label, probably at the same time as several other plants were using the new, black label.

And rightly so. As an author, I am certainly in agreement that no one should be able to give my copyrighted work away for free, when I need to sell it to earn enough money to live on it.

The US public has no taste. I LOVE their version of "Good Night Irene". That very same attitude is why we didn't get "Suspicion" onto the first (and sadly, the only) "From The Vaults" album. We were very lucky, after a lot of begging, to get a Spinners' and a Majestics' song on it (only after being forced to change The Majestics' name to Monitors, for customer recognition.

I've seen that one before, and other issues in that format as well. One of the pressing plants pressed up some Cadet records using that style label. I'd like to know the story behind it.

That purple plastic Maurice & Radiants has to be some kind of special reissue. I'd be willing to bet the farm that that didn't exist when the record was first released.

You might get a slight bargain on the record, and die soon after from poison mold inhalation! I wouldn't mind having that Shrine Record. I wish I could afford them.

I was listening to Black American music from the age I first had consciousness. My father listened to Jazz and Blues from the '30s and '40s. I first started collecting R&B and Blues records in 1953 in Chicago. I bought records from 1953-1972 (when I moved to The Netherlands). I started loving Soul Music whenever you define it as starting. Some people have a favourite "Top 100". I have a "Top 1,000". I liked "stompers", but also mid-tempos (popcorn) and beat ballads when the Northern Soulies looked down their noses at that stuff. I liked all the good Soul music when it was first released. By the way, I found "Naughty Boy" by Jackie Day, in a record store in Los Angeles in 1965 (the year it was out), in a 2 for $1.00 bin. In 1984, I swapped it to a British friend of mine who broke it at Stafford.

You could be right, Rod, that I told you that "Suspicion" was by The Originals. But, I think when you first heard it at my house, we still didn't know who it was. It was probably between that time and when I sent the tape to you that we discovered, from looking the song up in The Motown Recording Logs, that it had to be The Originals. I don't believe any other artist/group recorded that song (if i remember correctly). I still cannot understand why they didn't release it. It would have been a smash hit.

I seem to remember your getting at least one or two more C90 tapes from me after the first 2. ALL those songs were recordings I had, and wanted to get to you. There are even non-Motown Detroit songs on a couple of those tapes (Royal Ravens, etc.) that were sent only because they had been on my tapes with mainly unreleased Motown, and it was simply easier just to run off the whole tapes, rather than edit them out.

Andrea Henry is listed as the producer on Love Records. H &A Productions (Herman and Andrea) is listed as the Production co. who leased to Wand Records for its national dist. deal. The producer listed on that one is Herman Griffin and Andrea Henry. Griffin was known to have owned labels-AND, more importantly, he had possession of the acetate. I suspect that Love Records was co-owned by Golden World (Ed Wingate/Joanne Bratton (Jackson)) and Herman Griffin (or H &A Productions, with Henry included), and operated as a Golden World subsidiary.

"Sugar's Never Been As Sweet As You"-was clearly Gladys Horton's voice. I can hear it playing in my head right now, and one cannot mistake her distinctive voice. How could any '60s Motown fan have not recognised that? On the other hand, The Originals' lead on both versions of Suspicion is not very recognisable to most normal Motown fans. I can easily recognise Freddy Gorman's voice, but not Hank Dixon, or C.P. Spencer, or the others. That cut didn't really sound like any of their other recordings, so we weren't really listening for The Originals' voices, in any case. Also, The Motown Vaults didn't have a computerised cross-referencing system to find a list of all the artists who recorded a particular song. We could only find the songwriters quickly. It took a fair amount of digging to find out who sang on that recording. We had planned to do that, until the bosses decided that one LP would be the last. Not long after, Tom DePierro left Motown to form Airwave/Altair Records. I joined his firm as a co-owner, and, unfortunately, didn't participate in Motown's subsequent unreleased music release projects in 1982 (1 LP), 1983 (1 LP) and their 25 Year Anniversary LP releases (with much previously unissued material). The almost started over, not using many of the songs we had slated for future LPs, and stuck almost exclusively to the most popular artists (Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Miracles, Temptations, Martha & Vandellas, Gladys Knight & Pips, Four Tops).

I have one of those TamTown Boots with "Spellbound" and "You're Gonna Love My Baby". It was black print on white BG. No red print.

They changed the titles. The only artists we didn't know was "Suspicion". That was taken off a Jobete Music Co, song reference acetate which had no artist listed. We didn't venture a guess as to who it was. We had another in "All I Have Left Are Memories", which turned out to have been sung by Sammy Turner and The Serenaders. But that wasn't a UK concern, as it was a tremendously slow Doo Wop ballad, and so not placed on the tapes I sent to Rod. The backing tracks to "On The Avenue", recorded for Jimmy Ruffin, came off an acetate, mislabeled as "In The Neighborhood", by Jimmy Ruffin. Of course, we now know that both of those songs were just alternate lyrics for the same instrumental song. What a great instrumental track. I like the "In The Neighborhood" lyrics better, but think the "On The Avenue" lyrics fit the music better. We knew that "Sugar's Never Been As Sweet as You" was sung by The Marvelettes. I don't understand why anyone would want to "cover up only" a couple of artists out of 24 songs. That doesn't make any sense.

Yes, Rod, it could have been 1981. That was a long time ago, and I have little in the way of parallel events to reference it. I doubt that my tapedeck was running too fast. I also doubt that the turntable at Motown that I used to record the acetates was running too fast. And half of the unreleased cuts were taken off of tapes. So why would some of those AND some of the acetate recordings BOTH be too fast?

I knew Bob Cattaneo, and he was a big Motown collector, in addition to an serious R&B collector. But, I didn't know that Tom dealt with him. I thought Soussain got some acetates from someone inside Motown, but I didn't think that person was Tom. But, I was living mainly in The Netherlands then (as I still am -well, only 1/2 year now), so I didn't know what Tom was doing a lot of the time. I don't want to speculate on how all those acetates (from The Vaults), plus all the really rare Motown 45s left Motown(Frank Wilson, Andantes, etc.) (many were lifted out of The Motown and Jobete Record Files). But, I had no part in any of that. By the way, I don't live in that flat in L.A. anymore, that I kept for 32 years (spending only about 1/3 of the time there).

I've heard at least 3 versions of that song, with 2 different vocals two different instrumental versions, and the third one a different mix of one of those 2 different instrumentals. The interesting thing is that, in my opinion, Motown chose the weaker of the two versions to release on CD (on "Cellarful of Motown"). The version sitting on You-Tube now, is NOT the version Rod took back to UK in the early 1980s. He took the better one, and I believe it was the better one that was played on The Northern Scene and was booted then. I believe the version on You-Tube is the one released on the legit CD, and was "discovered" when its acetate was auctioned off. I assume that all three master tapes are still in The Vaults, andthat was the source of the CD recording.