Robbk

I've got a key for Monarch. I got it in early 1970, so min is only good from Monarch's beginning, in 1954, through 1969. It has the code for the last record pressed for each month through all those16 years. # 78959 was the last record pressed in December of 1969. So, any 5-numeral code starting with an 8 or 9 was pressed up in the 1970s, and any 6 numeral code was pressed after 1973. Monarch pressed up about 4,500 to 5,000 different 45s each year during the 1960s. I remember them pressing about 5-10% more in the early 1970s.

Sometimes multiple boxes of a particular US 45 got to Britain, when NO COPIES of that record ever reached a record shop in USA. Sometimes the rarist US pressing becomes the common one on The Northern Scene. It's a LOTR more "unbelievable" (and exasperating) to us North Americans than to you Brits (especially to those of you who thought (and still think) that we, across the pond, didn't want this obscure Soul music, and it was just sitting in warehouses waiting for you to "rescue" it, and bring it to a good home". I wanted it as badly as any of you.

They did use both materials in the '60s and '70s. But, to my knowledge, they used a LOT more styrene than vinyl (at least in the many thousands of Monarch-pressed 45s I've seen.

I don't know how many of each pressing got to The UK. But, in USA, back when the record was out, and into the early 1970s (up till 1972 ), I saw many, many more of the Grand Junction issue. Both the Black Rock, and the Epic issues were rare. The Grand Junction was fairly commoln. My "coverage" was mostly in Chicago, Detroit, L.A., San Diego, San Francisco/Oakland, Portland (Oregon), Seattle, Vancouver B.C. Indianapolis, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Kansas City. it was lesser so in the Northeastern cities, Canadian cities and NO coverage in Southern USA.

Can one of you folk with the Grand Junction and Black Rock releases scan those for us? I'd like to know who the producers and arrangers were, and how long the songs are (if they are different, there's a reasonable chance these songs were re-recorded).

I have it on Epic, just as "Rena Scott". So, it may be a later version. Here's a scan: Uploaded with ImageShack.us I remember George McGregor talking about producing this. It's unusual that it was a small. independent production, and yet, the producers and arrangers on each side are different. MacGregor used Miller Brisker (Bonnie's father) as his arranger. The flip, "Set Me Free", was produced by Tyrone Hite, and arranged by Sonny Sanders. That leads me to wonder if both recordings were funded by The Grand Junction owner and he released it locally, and after decent Detroit sales, he leased it to Epic. Or, if the Grand Junction was a different recording, and Hite & McGregor took the newer version to Epic. Is the flip

Frances Burr sang Blues, and had a strong, hard-edged delivery. Frances Burnett sang with a smooth, laid back style. Also, the tones of their voices sound VERY different. Everyone in The World has his/her own unique recognisable tone. Only identical (shared egg) twins have extremely similar tone. It's fairly easy to discern different pepleor same people by their voices.It's pretty clear to me these are two different people.

What leads you to even suggest this?  Do their voices sound the same to you?  As far as I know, Frances Burr was a local Chicagoan.  Frances Burnett was born and raised in Philadelphia, and resided there during her music career.  But, I believe that she recorded for Coral (Decca) in New York.  I'm not sure if she came to Detroit to record for Berry Gordy ((as did Ken Masters (Decca).  I can't imagine Frances Burnett, who was fairly well known (enough to have appeared on American Bandstand), shortening her name to Burr, and recording for Sebon Foster's little Salem Records in Chicago.  It doesn't make sense.  Furthermore, their voices sound VERY different to me.

That should read: "Baby What I Mean".

Any chance of my hearing the recording on the "Exotics' cut"? Maybe I can help identify the group? It had to be a group with some relationship to George Kerr, Sidney Barnes, George Clinton, Gene Redd, or Eddie Singleton. Maybe it was The Serenaders, Parliaments, Prophets or one we know is related to those producers. We can make an educated guess at the identity of the producer, based upon the songwriter/s. George Kerr, Sid Barnes and Luke Gross wrote "Let's Get Together". So, I'm guessing that The Serenaders may have sung that demo. As you didn't mention The Serenaders as a guess, I assume that perhaps Timothy Wilson (whose voice is easily recognisable didn't sing lead on that one. Maybe George, himself, sang lead on it?

James Carr was a deep Soul singer from The South, and recorded in The South (Memphis, etc.). I don't remember him arranging. James Carmichael was an arranger, who worked out of L.A. before Motown, and worked for Motown once they moved to L.A. He had worked some with the same producers who worked for L.A. Jobete Music in 1963-66, before Motown's move to L.A.

Yes, Ervin Groves was "Big Boy Groves" in the '50s, and Ervin Rucker. He was a band leader and songwriter/producer. He was Lani Groves' father. He lived in San Diego, and recorded there, as well as in L.A. and Hawaii (his bithplace and first home). He recorded for Duplex, Musette and GME in the '60s, GME in the '70s, and I have some records by him in the '50s (John Dolphin's Money Records(1955), and a few other smaller independents). Here's a link to short blurb on him: https://www.sirshambl...ary_staten.html

Yes, I've seen that font on Tamla in the early '70s. I wonder if those "Q-U-" letters stand for "Quality Control", and it was a special test pressing made up for The Quality Control Department to listen to, rather than having to play a tape?

I've never seen a Motown pressing that looked like that. But, Marvin also recorded for another company (Columbia). I can't tell the age of that (looks maybe like '70s). But maybe it could be from 1981 or '82, which could make it Columbia.

So, then Tamla Records in Canada, was the first Motown-owned label outside USA, and UK's Tamla-Motown was the first Motown owned label outside North America.

I've only seen the blue, the gold, and the white D. I've never seen the grey nor the gold with the head silhouettes. The different colours must be from different pressing plants. I saw the gold and blue ones around the same time, back in 1970, and the silver soon after. I wonder if the gold with the heads is a later pressing?

After seeing the whole batch here, it appears that maybe the owner DID fund some productions with H.B. as producer, and also picked up a few productions on lease from other L.A. producers.

Thanks for the info, Bob. You've interviewed so many people from The Business who were around in Chicago in the late '60s, that I figured some of those interviews touched on Alteen Records. I even thought I'd remembered hearing some of that in some of the interviews. i had gotten caught up on your interviews to about 3 months ago. But, it's hard to remember all that everyone covered in their responses. Nice to hear that I've got the "rarest' pressing. Do you remember seeing another Drake and The En-Solids and The Robert Taylor releases? Do you think the grey Superbs pressing is legit? Or could it be a boot?

One of the NS collectors whose better records were known to the general NS community had his flat broken into and whole collection nicked. I suspect you won't get a lot of positive responses to this thread.

By rob_k at 2011-09-01

Alteen Records was formed in 1968 by owner Bill Meeks (who also had a commercial music jingle production business). Alteen ran into the early 1970s (1972?). Meeks produced the recording sessions, with help from Marshall Thompson and Billy McGregor. I have the following 3 records: AL 8652 Drake and The En Solids "Please Leave Me"/"I'll Always Be There" 1968 HP 3001 Sunday (Williams) "Ain't Got No Problems"/"Where Did He Come From" 1969 AL 3004 Superbs "Only For lovers"/"You Don't Care" 1970 I have seen at least one more Drake and The en-Solids It might be AL 3002 or AL 3003. And, I believe that there was likely another in the early '70s (1970 or 1971), on which McGregor also worked (according to his interview with Bob Abrahamian on his "Sitting In The Park" streamed radio show (BobA) on THIS forum. I'm sure he can tell you a lot more about Alteen than I, especially as I believe he has also interviewed Marshall Thompson and, possibly members of The Superbs, and maybe Sunday Williams (or, at least, people who knew them). If he notices this thread, you will learn as much about Alteen Records as is possible. I believe there was also a release on Robert Taylor (produced by Billy McGregor I have seen mainly this powder blue pressing of The Superbs record, but seem to also remember seeing a red one as well. I lived in Chicago at the time it was out, and never saw a silver nor gold issue. I wonder if those could be Bootlegs of British origin? Here's my copy:

At first, before seeing Prelude 1112 and 1113, I had thought that maybe that H.B. Barnum might have been the A & R man and chief of production of the label (and maybe even be a part owner). Now, it appears more likely that L.A. Prelude Records had no production of their own, and just leased master tapes from independent L.A. producers.

H.B. Barnum operated out of L.A. as did June (J.J.) Jackson. None of the names on those 2 records are connected with Detroit. Why would anyone think that particular Prelude Records was located in Detroit? Maybe there was a prelude Records operating in Detroit with which he got it confused? But, I certainly don't remember any Prelude label in Detroit.

The McGhees is on HB Barnum's L.A. label. Another Prelude label I know of was orange and was located in New York, if I remember correctly. The J.J. Jackson and The Jackaels must be the same L.A. label, despite the different number scheme. I doubt that they released over 500 singles.

I seem to remember seeing some Hopkins Brothers records in the '60s. I didn't buy them. Maybe that's because they were deep. Southern Soul (or, at least that's what I guessed them to be. Niot positive I ever heard one. That song is listed on Magnetic Records. Anyone know what year it was out, in what city Magnetic Records was located, and which production people were involved?