Robbk

The connection between Riley's and Thelma is pretty thin, other than both being located in Detroit, and that Joey King Fish worked for both companies, and I believe that Melvin Davis worked on a few recordings for both companies. But, if you recorded in Detroit in the mid 1960s, you were more or less forced to use at least a few musicians that other small R&B/Soul firms were using. Joey King Fish was Diamond Jim Riley's main A & R man for a few years, while he wrote songs and produced several sessions at Thelma, but was less important there (as they had Don Davis, Norman Whitfield, Don Juan Mancha, Clay McMurray and James Gopphine producing as well). Although, he DID lead their in-house band during much of their existence, and took over as A&R Man and chief producer when Davis left the company for Golden World.

Does anyone have that Goldmine CD and can send me soundfiles of the Pat Smith sides?

If I stated that I have that record I was having a senior moment. I have The Kittens on Vick, but not The Emeralds. "Catch Me I'm Falling" is very nice. But, I suspect I'll like the flip even more (if it is slower mid-tempo or a ballad. I do remember them as a group talked about in Chicago in the mid-60s. They sang at some school/park functions. Not sure about clubs.

I've been collecting R & B/Soul records since 1953, and I keep hearing "newly discovered" songs from my heyday (1953-1969) almost every day. There were hundreds of thousands of songs recorded. Many were never released, many were never pressed up, many were never distributed other than by hand from the producer or artists. There's lots new to discover all the time.

Man, I'd like to hear both sides of that one!!! That's got to be my prime sound. And to think that with all my scrounging and searching in Chicagoland just when that was out, I somehow missed it. Just the lock of the draw.

I have the full label run, as well. "Lucky To Be Loved By You" was never released nor even slated for 103 (or any other number by Thelma. Number 103 and the two missing matrix numbers were slated for two songs by a female artist named Pat Smith. I surely would have liked to hear those. I suppose people have asked Don Davis' son what happened to those master tapes. I can't figure out why Davis thought that tiny Wild Deuce could get that release any kind of decent national distribution. I think it was the very best (and most "Motownish" Thelma recording. Here's an excerpt from Soulful Detroit's "Webisode" on Thelma Records: "There are many vinyl collectors living in hope of finding a copy of Thelma #103, but they don't exist. That catalogue number was allocated to Pat Smith's unreleased recording, "Going Through A Whirlpool" - Ron Murphy found the documentation in United Sound's archives." I remember Ron, himself, telling me that he found that. He had remembered Pat as a local Detroit singer. Clearly Smith's record was cancelled, without even demos pressed, as Golden World used one of the missing ZTSC numbers.

"Isn't She Pretty"-Temptations-Gordy 7001

Wasn't she A&R man Kent Harris' wife? I'm pretty sure I've got her 45 on solid greenish-blue (bluish green) Romark.

I'm guessing she means the late '60s Chicago label associated with Carl Jones' CJ Records (distributed by them?)

I thought The Magnificents on Dee Gee was an L.A. record, as it was produced by H.B. Barnum for Jobete Music L.A. office, with Frank Wilson and Marc Gordon writing it. Were those the Chicago Magnificents? Did they move to L.A. with Magnificent Montague, when he came to L.A. to be a DJ on KGFJ?

I wonder if Leo Austell co-owned Vick and Sta-Set along with Lee, as his own Lamaja Music was involved in virtually every record I have on those labels, including The Emeralds on Vick. Austell was also co-producer with Lee on The Emeralds' record.

The pink one was pretty common. I've seen a lot more of those (both East Coast and West Coast, and Midwest pressings) than the white DJ issue.

What I can't figure out is why both sides were never played on US radio stations. We did hear some of Harry Balk's productions that were placed on Big Top, and Impact Records. Both sides of this record were better (IMO) than most of his productions that DID receive lots of airplay.

I'm a no-nonsense bloke, so my user name is my first name and last initial. My avatar is an actual photo of myself from 2009 (neither flattering, nor unflattering). As The Dramatics once said: "What you see is what you get."

I like The Millionaires' version on Big Bunny much better (although I like Gerri Grainger's version very much, as well). It's a very well written song. The Millionaires' version is more soulful. It sounds much like a New York Jobete Music arrangement, rather than the highly orchestrated (more big-bandish) Big Top version.

It was never on US Red Bird. It was only on US Red Bird subsidiary, Blue Cat. But maybe that listing of Red Bird refers to UK Red Bird? There was no UK Blue Cat. So, I assume that UK issues from Red Bird/Blue Cat stable all came out on UK Red Bird, or not at all in The UK. Isn't that right? Maybe it was slated for issue on UK Red Bird in 1967, but it was pulled back? Maybe only a few were pressed up (for DJ copies)? I've never seen one.

I'd bet that date (year-1966) for Stone Blue 101 is too early. I'd guess it was at LEAST 1968 or 1969. I've seen it listed only as 1969.

I'd call it rather a "Solid Hitbound" recording, as BOTH Lebaron Taylor and Don Davis produced it and furnished the recording effort, rather than just Davis (Groovesville).

Margaret Mandolph was arranged by David Gates. Thus the "Wall of Sound" tracks. I'd be surprised if Monique was from Detroit (despite the Detroit tracks used on her cuts). ALL the other Maurci artists were from Chicago, as were Simtec Simmons and Gene Chandler. Only McKinley Jackson(among their staff) was from Detroit, and I would guess that he brought the Detroit tracks with him (despite their having belonged to Dave Hamilton).

Yvonne and The Sensations had the release. And it seems to me that there was another artist with a release on it, as well.

It sounds very "girls groupy" to me-NOT Everly Bros. (overall). But NOT Scepter-Wand, and DEFINITELY not Bachrach-David. It does sounds like NY arranger and session players.

I've got a key for Monarch. I got it in early 1970, so min is only good from Monarch's beginning, in 1954, through 1969. It has the code for the last record pressed for each month through all those16 years. # 78959 was the last record pressed in December of 1969. So, any 5-numeral code starting with an 8 or 9 was pressed up in the 1970s, and any 6 numeral code was pressed after 1973. Monarch pressed up about 4,500 to 5,000 different 45s each year during the 1960s. I remember them pressing about 5-10% more in the early 1970s.

Sometimes multiple boxes of a particular US 45 got to Britain, when NO COPIES of that record ever reached a record shop in USA. Sometimes the rarist US pressing becomes the common one on The Northern Scene. It's a LOTR more "unbelievable" (and exasperating) to us North Americans than to you Brits (especially to those of you who thought (and still think) that we, across the pond, didn't want this obscure Soul music, and it was just sitting in warehouses waiting for you to "rescue" it, and bring it to a good home". I wanted it as badly as any of you.

They did use both materials in the '60s and '70s. But, to my knowledge, they used a LOT more styrene than vinyl (at least in the many thousands of Monarch-pressed 45s I've seen.

I don't know how many of each pressing got to The UK. But, in USA, back when the record was out, and into the early 1970s (up till 1972 ), I saw many, many more of the Grand Junction issue. Both the Black Rock, and the Epic issues were rare. The Grand Junction was fairly commoln. My "coverage" was mostly in Chicago, Detroit, L.A., San Diego, San Francisco/Oakland, Portland (Oregon), Seattle, Vancouver B.C. Indianapolis, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Kansas City. it was lesser so in the Northeastern cities, Canadian cities and NO coverage in Southern USA.