Robbk

I guess I'm getting senile. There is clearly only one singer on both sides. He sounds like he "COULD" be Dusty Wilson. Not spot on, but close enough to make it unclear that he ISN'T Wilson. Nobody remembers seeing The Tomangoes appear in Detroit. So, clearly, they must have been a "studio invention". With no background voices, I wonder why Washington chose to list a group name on the record (rather than just a made up single-artist name (IF that singer was under contract to another label at the time)?

According to Ron Murphy, the Crakerjack group was a Detroit group, recorded in Detroit by Joe Hunter and Fred Brown. They leased the master to Juggy Murray's Sue/Crackerjack Records in New York in 1963. We're reasonably sure that Lee Gates (or Harry Gates (brother or same guy?)) was lead singer in that group. His voice is very distinctive (a brother could have had a similar familial tone). You can see Harry Gates listed as first writing credit on the song. He may have written the song, originally, and brought it with his group to Brown and Hunter, who "polished it" receiving the additional writing credits, and recorded the group and marketed the recordings, and got the record deal. Murphy also stated that Ron Banks was asked about that recording session. He stated that he and his Dramatics had nothing to do with that recording. Banks was only 15 years old in 1966, when HIS Dramatics (also from Detroit) recorded their FIRST record for Ed Wingate (Wingate Records). He would have been only 11 or 12 in 1963, when the first was recorded. Apparently, the first Dramatics were only a "studio group", formed for that one record in 1963 (or a group that formed and broke up quickly after their record flopped). No one we talked to remembers that first Dramatics group appearing around Detroit. Hundreds of Detroit groups popped up during the '60s, with different singers moving around to various groups. By the time Ron Banks' Dramatics started in 1965, the first Dramatics group was long disbanded, and hardly anyone had known of them even in 1963. Both Joe Hunter (a few times SDF poster) and Fred Brown were asked about the first Dramatics group. They stated that they remember the first group WAS from Detroit (if memory serves, they were seniors in a Detroit high school (NOT the one that Banks attended). But, unfortunately, they couldn't remember any of their names.

Love Has Gone Away-Combinations, Inc. -Arc Lark Spending Christmas Day With You-The Nibbs -Arc Lark same backing track

I think I remember him living in northern Germany for awhile, as well (Hamburg or Bremen, or was it Oldenburg?). I lived in Bremen for 5 years, and saw lots of posters for his appearances. I never knew that his daughter was a DETROIT Soul singer.

That guy is hard to track down. I've been looking for info on him for years (as I do for all Detroit Soul people), and found nothing. I don't remember even seeing his name on any other records (unless he's one of the Williams listed on The Creations' record on Mel-O-dy). I asked several Detroit people who had been in the business back then, and none knew anything about him. I don't remember seeing any posters for him appearing locally, in Detroit (that's a bad sign). His voice doesn't sound enough like anyone else to surmise that he also sang under another name. I'll be curious to see if anyone can find anything.

What was the source of the quote that Dusty Wilson was the lead singer (or only singer)? I've heard it from several sources, a few of whom are people who generally know what was going on in Detroit back in the day.

I remember reading, somewhere, that Dusty Wilson was The Tomangoes' lead singer. I don't remember reading that the remainder of the vocals were Bob Seeger's Band. But, it rings a different bell. If I remember correctly, there were only two "Tomangoes, and, maybe Wilson sang lead recorded on one track, and the other member, Wilson and Gino Washington sang the backgrounds on another track. I think they were a studio group only, and didn't make appearances (unless it was the two singers plus an extra making appearances in Gino's shows. I seem to remember that the second singer was a known Detroit singer, as well.

GENO Washington (of The Ramjam Band) (the US Serviceman operating in England) was from Indiana. GINO Washington was from Detroit. Washpan was his record label. The Tomangoes sang backup to Gino on some cuts. I assume, however, that he was not an official member of their group.

I had forgotten to look on the Magic City version. It has Williams as well. I wonder why her name is off the Big Hit? I think that's the latter release of the three. Might she have sold off her rights by then, for a cash sum?

But the fact that the later Odex is located in nearby Mississippi, leads me to believe that the owners are the same, and they re-opened their label again, a few years later (as had been done by Joe Von Battle with his JVB label, and VJ with their Abner subsidiary, and so many other labels (stopping operations for some years, and then starting up again). I think the similar name and really close locations is too much of a coincidence to be random.

Indeed they are different. Ernest Burt and Timmy Shaw are listed on the Big Hit. But Timmy Shaw's real name is John Hammonds (which appears on the Blue Rock version (that clears up one difference)). But P. Williams is added to the Blue Rock version. Anyone know who P. Williams is?

There were no vinyl releases, but three of their unreleased 1963 cuts (all produced by Smokey) have been released on "Cellarful of Motown": "Doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hyde", "Company Time" and "I Could Make A Million". You'd probably not care much about them. they are all sung and orchestrated in a "neo-Doowop" style. they sound more like 1959 Tamla Records than 1963. That's one reason why our boss refused to allow them to be slated for release on Motown's "From The Vaults" series.

What was the first record to go "Northern",-I probably bought it. I was buying almost every uptempo Soul Record put out that I came across. I suppose it would have been obscure Motown release. I bought them ALL (including The Andantes on VIP). It was only Soul 35019 that I didn't own personally. But wwe had it in our office for about 7 years (and I played it a lot).

I love Richard Pegue's Penny/Nickel cuts. Are there a lot of previously unreleased cuts on this CD?

The Altrasonics were Gino's touring band (musicians). The Versatones were the male vocal back-up group. He also had a female back-up group in 1963-64 (Amon/Wand Records), The Rochelles. At that time, The Atlantics were his touring band.

Enrica was a small New York label, with no ties to Detroit, as far as I know. Was James Dee a Detroiter? Would The Supremes really have moonlighted for a NY label when already signed to Motown? I admit that they certainly moonlighted with Ex-Motowner Robert Bateman at Correc-Tone Records (not far away from Motown's offices, as late as 1962. But, I seriously doubt they are on that Enrica record.

Those Detroit Versatones were the same group that recorded for Motown in The early '60s (Smokey produced), and for Magic City afterwards. Yes, Gino had some of his Atac Records pressed in LA in the '70s. I wonder if he moved there for a couple years?

Not in this genre of music, but I like Al Benson's Parrot Records best.

All my Atacs were on vinyl. All the Malas I've seen were on Styrene. Styrene is always the faster to wear with play, but NOT always the best in fidelity.

I'd guess that they were the same Louisiana based record label, owned by the same people. But there may have been a large time lapse between the operation periods of that label. I think that The Barbara Jean release was from 1964 or early 1965, and distributed nationally by VJ or Dart Distributors.. And The Premiers' record could have been released in the late '60s, or even in 1970 or 1971 (based on the label font and design). It seems to me that I've also seen a few other records on the latter incarnation of that label.

I think "Any Two Can Play It" is, by far, the better.

Is that the same Detroit guy who recorded for Scepter and Barracuda/Revue?

I think that Bob Schwartz may have co-owned Ruby (as a subsidiary of Enterprise Records). Enterprise Records (according to Ron Murphy) was owned by a local Detroit businessman (maybe Joe Thomas?) (I forget his name). He owned Different Music, and also The Dynamic and Heart labels as well.

"That's My Desire" by The Flamingos on Chance is listed as "Northern Soul". Ha! Ha! I remember when no song earlier than 1966 would ever be even listened to by Northern Soulies, and no song slower than a racing "stomper" would be played! My, how The World has changed (and only £79!!! Must be a facsimile boot. The photo doesn't look like a real '53 Chance record.

There were two Motown Vault versions of "Suspicion" by The Originals that we considered for placing in Motown's "From The Vaults" series (only one album saw the light of day, and it didn't get "Suspicion". The better of the two versions was played by Rod Shard in the early 1980s (1982 or 1983?). Someone in UK taped it off him or his version, sped it up and booted it (as The Detroit Prophets). The other acetate version came to UK later. It's the only one on You-Tube now. It is not as good, in my opinion.