Robbk

There were no vinyl releases, but three of their unreleased 1963 cuts (all produced by Smokey) have been released on "Cellarful of Motown": "Doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hyde", "Company Time" and "I Could Make A Million". You'd probably not care much about them. they are all sung and orchestrated in a "neo-Doowop" style. they sound more like 1959 Tamla Records than 1963. That's one reason why our boss refused to allow them to be slated for release on Motown's "From The Vaults" series.

What was the first record to go "Northern",-I probably bought it. I was buying almost every uptempo Soul Record put out that I came across. I suppose it would have been obscure Motown release. I bought them ALL (including The Andantes on VIP). It was only Soul 35019 that I didn't own personally. But wwe had it in our office for about 7 years (and I played it a lot).

I love Richard Pegue's Penny/Nickel cuts. Are there a lot of previously unreleased cuts on this CD?

The Altrasonics were Gino's touring band (musicians). The Versatones were the male vocal back-up group. He also had a female back-up group in 1963-64 (Amon/Wand Records), The Rochelles. At that time, The Atlantics were his touring band.

Enrica was a small New York label, with no ties to Detroit, as far as I know. Was James Dee a Detroiter? Would The Supremes really have moonlighted for a NY label when already signed to Motown? I admit that they certainly moonlighted with Ex-Motowner Robert Bateman at Correc-Tone Records (not far away from Motown's offices, as late as 1962. But, I seriously doubt they are on that Enrica record.

Those Detroit Versatones were the same group that recorded for Motown in The early '60s (Smokey produced), and for Magic City afterwards. Yes, Gino had some of his Atac Records pressed in LA in the '70s. I wonder if he moved there for a couple years?

Not in this genre of music, but I like Al Benson's Parrot Records best.

All my Atacs were on vinyl. All the Malas I've seen were on Styrene. Styrene is always the faster to wear with play, but NOT always the best in fidelity.

I'd guess that they were the same Louisiana based record label, owned by the same people. But there may have been a large time lapse between the operation periods of that label. I think that The Barbara Jean release was from 1964 or early 1965, and distributed nationally by VJ or Dart Distributors.. And The Premiers' record could have been released in the late '60s, or even in 1970 or 1971 (based on the label font and design). It seems to me that I've also seen a few other records on the latter incarnation of that label.

I think "Any Two Can Play It" is, by far, the better.

Is that the same Detroit guy who recorded for Scepter and Barracuda/Revue?

I think that Bob Schwartz may have co-owned Ruby (as a subsidiary of Enterprise Records). Enterprise Records (according to Ron Murphy) was owned by a local Detroit businessman (maybe Joe Thomas?) (I forget his name). He owned Different Music, and also The Dynamic and Heart labels as well.

"That's My Desire" by The Flamingos on Chance is listed as "Northern Soul". Ha! Ha! I remember when no song earlier than 1966 would ever be even listened to by Northern Soulies, and no song slower than a racing "stomper" would be played! My, how The World has changed (and only £79!!! Must be a facsimile boot. The photo doesn't look like a real '53 Chance record.

There were two Motown Vault versions of "Suspicion" by The Originals that we considered for placing in Motown's "From The Vaults" series (only one album saw the light of day, and it didn't get "Suspicion". The better of the two versions was played by Rod Shard in the early 1980s (1982 or 1983?). Someone in UK taped it off him or his version, sped it up and booted it (as The Detroit Prophets). The other acetate version came to UK later. It's the only one on You-Tube now. It is not as good, in my opinion.

I think Joe Casey was the owner (or a co-owner). I think Al Placido (Top Ten) and Ernie Stratton had something to do with them as well. I think Placido was A & R man for a while.George McGregor was a major producer, Mike Valvano, Mike Terry, McKinley Jackson, and Dale Warren and Mike Theodore were in on sessions. They recorded a lot at Ralph and Russ Terrana's Tera Shirma studio.

The Gold (Yellow) coloured print makes them look VERY different. No one could mistake the boot for an original. Also, the plastic and run-off grooves are different. If it's supposed to be a "facsimile" boot, it's a very poor attempt.

I think this is true. Simon was out here in L.A. then running off other boots. The "Magicians" was run at Monarch.

Why is that boot going for so much? Even the boot was fairly common when they were pressed up. It looks VERY different from the black on Avacado green original, and the group name is different. it's not like it's a facsimile.

The connection between Riley's and Thelma is pretty thin, other than both being located in Detroit, and that Joey King Fish worked for both companies, and I believe that Melvin Davis worked on a few recordings for both companies. But, if you recorded in Detroit in the mid 1960s, you were more or less forced to use at least a few musicians that other small R&B/Soul firms were using. Joey King Fish was Diamond Jim Riley's main A & R man for a few years, while he wrote songs and produced several sessions at Thelma, but was less important there (as they had Don Davis, Norman Whitfield, Don Juan Mancha, Clay McMurray and James Gopphine producing as well). Although, he DID lead their in-house band during much of their existence, and took over as A&R Man and chief producer when Davis left the company for Golden World.

Does anyone have that Goldmine CD and can send me soundfiles of the Pat Smith sides?

If I stated that I have that record I was having a senior moment. I have The Kittens on Vick, but not The Emeralds. "Catch Me I'm Falling" is very nice. But, I suspect I'll like the flip even more (if it is slower mid-tempo or a ballad. I do remember them as a group talked about in Chicago in the mid-60s. They sang at some school/park functions. Not sure about clubs.

I've been collecting R & B/Soul records since 1953, and I keep hearing "newly discovered" songs from my heyday (1953-1969) almost every day. There were hundreds of thousands of songs recorded. Many were never released, many were never pressed up, many were never distributed other than by hand from the producer or artists. There's lots new to discover all the time.

Man, I'd like to hear both sides of that one!!! That's got to be my prime sound. And to think that with all my scrounging and searching in Chicagoland just when that was out, I somehow missed it. Just the lock of the draw.

I have the full label run, as well. "Lucky To Be Loved By You" was never released nor even slated for 103 (or any other number by Thelma. Number 103 and the two missing matrix numbers were slated for two songs by a female artist named Pat Smith. I surely would have liked to hear those. I suppose people have asked Don Davis' son what happened to those master tapes. I can't figure out why Davis thought that tiny Wild Deuce could get that release any kind of decent national distribution. I think it was the very best (and most "Motownish" Thelma recording. Here's an excerpt from Soulful Detroit's "Webisode" on Thelma Records: "There are many vinyl collectors living in hope of finding a copy of Thelma #103, but they don't exist. That catalogue number was allocated to Pat Smith's unreleased recording, "Going Through A Whirlpool" - Ron Murphy found the documentation in United Sound's archives." I remember Ron, himself, telling me that he found that. He had remembered Pat as a local Detroit singer. Clearly Smith's record was cancelled, without even demos pressed, as Golden World used one of the missing ZTSC numbers.

"Isn't She Pretty"-Temptations-Gordy 7001