Robbk

You may well be right. There was quite a recording session time gap between their last Cub and fisrt MGM session (unlike the Wanderers' case).

It looks original to me. Eddie Thomas had pressing jobs done in a lot of different pressing plants. They had several different label designs and colours. That's one that Thomas used.

The instrumentation just doesn't sound Detroit at all. It sounds like one of the weaker L.A. ( Jobete) Motown cuts (without the flute). It just sounds like a Motown copy. No way I'd mistake this for a Detroit Motown track.

The words and tempo (and GENERAL) arrangement sound very like a Mary Wells Motown song. But the instrumentation sounds like Nashville. And it doesn't have a Motown bridge, which would have featured a sax solo. I could see how to convert this nicely-written song into a nice 1963-64 Motown Mary Wells (w/Love-Tones) cut. Maybe someday I'll get the software to cut and splice up a version!

This sounds a LOT more like an East Coast (Philly) cut than a Detroit/Motown sound. I can't hear The marvelettes doing this (at least not produced by a Motown producer).

Ady- do you need anything on The Francettes on Wolfie or Sleeper, or Challenge?

He was supposedly a friend of Smokey's. smokey brought him in to record in early 1962. He only recorded a handful of songs at Motown ("Who You Gonna Run To" being the best effort -in 1964). I found a couple of unreleased in The Vaults in the 1970s. They were from 1962. "Better Late Than Never" was the best of those. Smokey wrote and produced all his cuts.

Duplicate.

There's a reason for that. It was produced by LA Motown's producers (Hal Davis and Marc Gordon) and written by LA Jobete Music's writers (Marc Gordon and Frank Wilson), and arranged by LA Motown's regular arranger, and the session players were LA Motown's regular 1963-66 players on sessions for recordings that appeared on Motown released records. To me, none of the other non-Motown cuts listed above sound really like Motown. The session players were not from Detroit, the arrangers were different from the Motown style. Many of them sound like NY or Philly cuts. To me, only Motown's LA Jobete recordings, and Detroit Soul recordings using Motown session players, arrangers and writers, sound really like Motown. Some examples: "Lucky To Be Loved By You"-Emanuel Lasky "That Was My Girl"-Parliaments "You turned My Bitter Into Sweet"-Mary Love "Let Me Know"-Mary Love "Run One Flight Of Stairs"-Gloria Jones "This Heart of Mine"-Artistics "Happiness Is Here"-Tobi Lark "My World is on Fire"-Jimmy Mack "Me Without You"-Mary Wells "Don't Lead Me On Baby"-Emanuel Laskey "No Part Time Love For Me"-Martha Starr "Poor Unfortunate Me"-J.J. Barnes "My Mama Told Me"-Barbara Lewis "Open The Door To Your Heart"/"Somebody Somewhere Needs You"-Darrell Banks "The Touch of Venus"-Sandy Wynns Don Davis recreated The Motown Sound at his Groovesviile/Groove City Records, at Golden World/Ric Tic, Solid Hit Productions, Thelma and Stax/Volt Records Joe Hunter did so at Mickay's/Ring, Golden World/Ric Tic and Pied Piper Prod. Mike Terry did, everywhere he went Bob Bateman did at Correc-Tone, and on his indie Detroit and NY Productions Mike Hanks did to some extent, as did Dave Hamilton and Ollie McGloughlin, Sonny Sanders in Detroit and Chicago (all used sometime Motown producers, arrangers and session players), Ed Cobb in LA

Do you mean before that iteration (or particular lineup) of The Velours got together? I thought we established in an earlier thread about them that The MGM mid-sixties Velours were the same group (albeit with some lineup changes) as The R&B/Doo Wop Velours who had recorded with Onyx, Orbit and Cub (they were still under contract from Cub when switched to MGM (same as occurred with The Wanderers).

I will send you scans at 300 dpi. No, I don't have the Kentone. But I have the Wolfie and Sleeper releases. I think I got them all when Herman Griffith sold his last stock when hye closed down his record shop on Adams and West Blvd. in 1967, or, if not, it was when Pat's Record shop on San pedro Place and Vernon Ave sold out in 1969. If i bought them at Griffiths they were likely at only 10 for a dollar at that time (last reduction). If at pats, they were 50 cents each.

Here it is: Uploaded with ImageShack.us Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I have no reason to doubt her word. I was just commenting on my being surprised because the names were so close, and they sounded so alike. With no lead voice, it's reasonable to realise that they could sound very alike if both groups harmonise well.

The other side is actually the "A" side, title "Many Mood (of a Man)". I didn't like it, and played it only once in 1967, when I got it. So, I don't remember how it sounds. But my taste runs towards sweet melodies and beat is irreleveant to me (so it "might" be a NS-type sound. But, as no one has played it on The Scene, I'd guess that it is just weak all around. Otherwise we'd have heard about it (as the record is not all that hard, and has been around). I'm shocked to hear that The Imaginary Three are not The Imaginations. They sound very like them, and after The Romantics of Ruby & Romantics, I think they are the best backup group to a female lead that never sangon their own.

It's from 1967, out of Pitsburgh,- produced by Joe Rock (producer of The Skyliners). Pressed (and seemingly distributed by Atlantic/ATCO Group). "Tell Her" is a ballad. I'm pretty sure that I remember "Letter Full of Tears" being the same mid-tempo song as Gladys Knight v& Pips version. It sounds like early '60s R&B/Soul transition recordings (more of a shag/beach sound than a NS beat. But, I guess those are considered NS "crossover" now. Sorry, I don't have sound files to upload. Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Big Dee Irwin sang "I Only Get THIS Feeling"-released on Imperial. I also have it by him on a Redd Coach white DJ. I'd guess that the latter was the original label and Wally Roker and Jesse Herring (or whoever owned it) leased it to Imperial. Uploaded with ImageShack.us

That looks original to me (just like the new one I bought in 1965). It should have a Nashville Matrix stamp. The boots have whiter label background, and the print is lighter and less even (e.g. from photograph).

A printer error on one pressing order. I've gone though probably over several million 45s since that record was released (I lived in Chicago at the time). I'd say I've seen more of Wise World(maybe 60%-40%). And, it was pressed with several label background colours.

I KNEW there was a link between the Allrite and Bonnie Magnetics. It was Bobby Peterson. After his Magnetics broke up, he joined The Volumes. When The Volumes (minus Eddie Union) wanted to use a different name, Peterson must have suggested his old group's name.

"A Change is Gonna Come" was pressed originally, in several different plants. That is an original. The first re-issue of that came out on RCA's Gold "Oldies" series with a different number in front (447?)

The Downbeats were led by Johnny Dawson. I remember having seen the names of the other three members, as well as all of the names of The Allrite Magnetics, and if I remember correctly, NONE of them matched. I'm almost positive that The Magnetics on Allrite did not have any connection to Motown's Downbeats.

The recording sounds way too old in acoustics and song-writing style to be from 1965. I bought those Storm records in about 1962. I guessed they were released in 1961 or 1962. The Prelude release is likely just a re-issue of J.J. and The Jackals, June Jackson put out in 1965 to try to cash in on his local popularity. He was making some appearences in the L.A. area then (which got him his contract with Imperial). Does anyone here know who owned Prelude Records?

There are lots of interesting lyrics in "Strange Fruit" sung by many (but my favourite is Billie Holliday's version). Although it is a bit painful, as I stay part-time in USA, and I still have to witness terrible racism that still exists there. When I visited thee in 1952, I saw a sign on a beach there (in Indiana) that said that I was not allowed to set foot on it (neither were dogs, nor "Ni-----"(people with black skin). Indiana is where the KKK was first formed). I do like these lyrics: "She can be covered with a rash..... Long as she's got some cash. "

"Pretty Girl" by Popcorn (Wylie) & The Mohawks on Johnnie Mae Matthews' Northern Records 3732.

Duplicate post.