Robbk

Laura Johnson recorded for Correc-Tone Records (produced by Robert Bateman) in 1962. Owner, Wilbur Golden was short on production money, so he leased that record to Brent records in New York. "Wondering If You Miss Me" was a Correc-Tone song, which would have been published by Bateman's Brianbert Music. But He and Golden also sold the publishing rights to it to Brent Music. It was the flip side (A-side) of that release that was the Jobete song ("I Know How It Feels"), which was a remake of a Motown original production sung by Bateman's own Satintones. That was a case of Bateman just recording his own song two years later. Robert Bateman, Sonny Sanders and Popcorn Wylie (and The Satintones-partly reformed as The Pyramids) had all left Motown in early 1962 to join Wilbur Golden's Correc-Tone/SonBert Records. Brian Holland and Mickey Stevenson had told them about making the move (they had first planned to move first, but later decided to stay at Motown).

That was originally recorded by Jimmy Ruffin. Clay Hunt's version was recorded later. That was just a situation in which his producer chose a Jobete published song for his artist to sing. That's totally different from my quest to hear Motown-recorded versions of songs written by out-of-Detroit Jobete music contracted writer/producers, who were writing songs to sell to Motown.

Frances Burnett's cuts were related to Berry Gordy's involvement with Brunswick with Jackie Wilson, but The Exotics' cuts were due to a relationship of their management with the Jobete Music's New York office's writers/producers (George Kerr, and maybe Eddie Singleton). The Sparkels, Pets, Tamala Lewis, Roy Handy and others sang Jobete songs from that source. The Paris and Sandy Wynns releases on Doc Records were Hal Davis' and Edd Cobb's attempt to get those cuts better distribution in The East Coast, rather than to "hide" the fact that they were "moonlighting" from their work at L.A.'s Jobete Music Office. Davis, Frank Wilson, Marc Gordan, Al Capps, Willie Hutchison and H.B. Barnum were all releasing their own productions of Jobete songs by their own L.A. non-Motown artists on labels such as Modern/Kent, Joker, Power, Tollie, Dee Gee, etc., and Motown knew about that. They did NOT have exclusive contracts to produce only for Motown. They were allowed to use their songs written for Motown in their non-Motown productions, if after a certain time period, Motown chose not to have their own release of the given song. I looked through The Motown Vaults for songs to place on Motown "Oldies" archive series "From The Vaults" in the 1970s. There were so many recordings, we just couldn't get to it all. I am still hearing new vinyl-unreleased Motown recordings all the time as Harry Weinger & crew "discover" them. I didn't know, back in te old days, that Motown artists had recorded "I'm So Thankful", "You Hit Me(Right Where it Hurt Me)", "My Heart is Calling You", and several others. "The Touch of Venus" was recorded by Patrice Holloway for Motown. I'd be curious to know if Motown artists recorded any of the Tamala Lewis, Roy Handy, Pets, Sparkels, Exotics or other NY Jobete songs, and if they recorded any of the Judy Hughes, Pat Hunt, Cinderellas, Mary Love, Connie Clark, Ricardo Lewis, Paris, Autographs, etc. L.A. Jobete cuts. I'm most interested to hear Motown versions of "You Turned My Bitter into Sweet" and "Let Me Know" done by Mary Love, "Just Call On Me" by Eddie (Frank) Wilson and "Love's Gonna Do You In" by The Autographs. I'd bet that no Motown artists recorded "You Won't Say Nothin' " by Tamala Lewis, or any others of the George Clinton or Kerr and Barnes non-Motown releases (Dolls, Norma Jenkins, Roy Handy, Pets, Sparkels, etc. ). It's a shame that Gordy shut down the New York Jobete office before Motown could get the rights to "That Was My Girl" (Parliaments). I'm sure that George Clinton wrote that originally to sell to Jobete Music for The Temptations to sing. It's a great Wingate production, but I'd have liked to hear a Motown-recorded version (even with the same Parliaments' vocals,-or sung by The Temptations). Too bad Ed Cobb left Motown because they didn't want to give him production credit and pay for his production of "Every Little Bit Hurts" by Brenda Holloway. IF he HAD stayed with Motown, maybe "Run One Flight of Stairs" and some of the other great Gloria Jones cuts would have been recorded by The Funk Brothers, and Gloria Jones would have been signed to Motown in 1964, rather than waiting until the 1970s.

That is DEFINITELY the late '70s L.A. pressed styrene Monarch pressing plant bootleg. You can see the Delta number 100,000 series etched into the run-out trail, which places it in the late 1970s. The numbers on the boot are 102881-X ("You Didn't Have to Leave"), and 102881 ("You Wouldn't Understand"). The original was only pressed on vinyl, as far as I know, and in an Eastern pressing plant. I believe that the original label colour was a different shade of red, and didn't have that margin between it's outer edge and the run-out trail (e.g. it filled out the area reserved for the label to its edge). I think that the font was also different in places.

"Crazy For You" was a Jobete Music song, produced by Al Capps for Motown's Jobete Music office in L.A. I wonder if any of Motown's signed artists recorded it (as "My Heart is Calling" by The Magnificents was recorded by The Four Tops, and "I'm So Thankful" by The Ikettes was recorded by Barbara Randolph, and ""You Hit Me (Right Where it Hurt Me)" by Alice Clark was recorded by Kim Weston)? As The Motown Vaults are continuously being searched for overlooked gems, more of the L.A. and N.Y. Jobete songs that were used by outside producers on non-Motown labels will be discovered to have been recorded in Detroit by Motown artists.

Cameo-Parkway distributed Calla in USA. Apparently, CP also got distribution rights to Calla in The UK (in that same agreement, or a related, separate one). The only relationship of Swan Records to Cameo-Parkway that I know was that both were located in Philadelphia, and both had Dick Clark as a minority owner. Not sure why CP would have been involved in litigation over Beatles' product.

Upon seeing that label, I'm SURE I bought that record in 1969. I don't know why my copy isn't with my other Red Balloon records. But I'm sure I didn't trade it away. So, it must be misshelved, or with a batch of about 2,000 Soul singles that I loaned a friend to tape. Of course, I wouldn't want to sell it. Someone had a few of those. I think it was John Anderson, but I don't remember for sure.

Sorry. I hadn't noticed that it was Red Balloon 03 you were discussing with "Fool For You"/"Fear Not". I didn't know about that record. After hearing The Jack Moves' version, I am curious to hear the Ledgends'.

First, "Fear Not"/"Gotta Let You Go" was issued on Locket (Clarence Johnson's and Johnny Cameron's label?) (local Chicago). Then, it was leased to Commonwealth United Records for national distribution. Later (1 year?), "Gotta Let You Go" was re-issued on Chicago's Red Balloon Records. Interesting that a small, local, Chicago label, clearly pressed in a Chicago pressing plant, lists an L.A. address for its corporation. Any insight into that, Bob? We know that The Ledgends and Sunday Williams recordings were made in Chicago, and Clarence Johnson and Johnny Cameron were working in Chicago then (never in L.A.). Could it be that the financier of the label operated out of L.A.?

Yes, I see now that I have a few styrene L.A. Monarch pressings that have both the ATCO number AND the Monarch delta sign and number etched into the trail. HA! And now that I look even more closely, one of my "Almost"/"Don't Sign The Paper" issues is from Monarch. The "Almost" side is 70627, and, curiously, the HIT side, "Don't Sign The Paper" is 70628. Unfortunately, my Carlas were not pressed at Monarch. So I can't compare the numbers. 70600 places it in mid-March of 1968. But Delph's Carla release of "Almost" must certainly have been between the tail end of 1966 and early 1967.

Joe Jefferson was the original producer of the session. Clearly, he leased these 2 cuts to Magnum first. I saw the record out on Magnum in spring 1965, at least a year before I ever saw ANY Mutt & Jeff record. Mutt & Jeff was Joe Jefferson's label. I believe he started it up in mid 1966, and re-issued Perry's "Move On Love". The Magnum Monarch pressing code numbers were 56294/5, which indicates mid March, 1965. I believe the Mutt & Jeff issue was released in 1966. I believe that Monarch used the same stampers as were used on the Magnum pressing, and, therefore, used the original code number from the year before. The MGM issue is Catalog No. 13621, which, I believe, was a 1966 release. That would indicate that Jefferson AGAIN leased Perry's record , this time to a major label (off the sales of its Mutt & Jeff release). I will now check the dating on the MGM 45 releases.

This order seems correct. I saw it on Magnum first. "Move On Love" was a hit in L.A. and S.F. bay area KGFJ and KDIA. Later, I started seeing a few on MGM (yellow DJs only). I can't remember seeing a black MGM store stock on this one. That must have been a national pressing/distribution lease deal. Mind you, I've seen thousands of Magnum copies, and only a handful of MGMs over my many years of record scrounging. MGM was very poor at marketing Soul music. Mutt and Jeff seemed to have some cross-over ownership with Magnum, to the extent that a few Magnum releases were re-released on Mutt & Jeff. That was certainly a re-issue in the case of Move on Love (a couple years later).

70627 would have been pressed in the middle of March, 1968.

Yes,-what is that Monarch number? I was living in L.A. at that time and all my copies have the ATCO number (13954). I don't believe I've ever seen a Karla or Karen record with a Monarch number.

Thanks, much!

Almost was the "B" side of "Don't Sign The Paper", which was the hit side that made the radio in Chicago, L.A. and anyplace in USA that I was in while that record was out (that had a Soul radio station). That was a re-issue of "Almost), as the Carla version came out first (It has pressing number of 12290, whilst "Don't Sign The Paper" has 13954). In addition, I seem to remember the Carla version out before the Karen.

Another small Detroit label associated with Andre Williams. I, too, would like to know the money people and others behind Hot Records. I suspect that Williams just found someone to finance the operating costs (recording time and pressing costs).

For me, "I think We're Gonna Be More Than Friends" is the better, but I can't wait to hear both on that CD (as well as any other unreleased gems that I didn't manage to get on tape when we perused The Vaults). Bob- was that "Daydreamer" side also by The Spinners? Or was that the Eddie Holland version? I hope it was a different recording by The Spinners. I'd love to hear them singing that song.

I've never heard of Ivy Hunter working at Wingate. I always thought that was Funk Brother (piano player and bandlleader, Joe Hunter (who left Motown in 1964 to work with Fred Brown at Mickay's, and who worked a lot with Ed Wingate's labels, as well as with Pied Piper and other non-Motown Detroit labels). Was I wrong all those years? NONE of his online bios mention anything about his working for Wingate.

I have read that Luther Ingram's "I Spy For The FBI" was recorded in totally New York, with Richard Tee arranging (both vocals and instrumentals). For "If It's All The Same To You Babe", Bateman had the instrumental tracks recorded in Detroit, but Ingram's vocals were recorded in New York. I would guess that ALL of those NY artists listed above had their vocals recorded by Bateman in NY. Not sure about Detroiter Teddy Greene. Bateman returned to Detroit to record Mary Wells' 20th Century Fox cuts. Most of the instrumentals on the above-listed records sung by NY/East Coast artists sound like NY recordings (rather than Detroit). But, Bateman still was using some Detroit tracks (as on the HIB release). So, it will be interesting to read which were recorded where. It will be interesting to find out which of the Detroit artists came to New York to record vocals. (I'd bet that Henry Lumpkin was already on The East Coast (he'd been with Cameo-Parkway after Motown). The new Monitors and Teddy Greene, and Barbara Lewis, however, would be interesting. Billy Woods was likely, NY.

I always wondered about the Detroit connection to Drum Records, knowing that Billy Hambric wasn't a Detroiter. And I always wondered how Popcorn Wylie and Tony Hester ended up witing for NY productions, and Stanley Mitchell ended up recording in New York. I knew about Robert Bateman using Popcorn Wyle and other Detroiters, Harry Balk's NY ties (Big Top, and distributing with Jubilee and Old Town), and Sidney Barnes' ties between the two cities (as well as Raynoma Liles/Eddie Singleton and crew (NY Jobete Office) George Kerr/Sidney Barnes, Gene Redd Jr., etc.). Now, the mystery has been unraveled. Thanks for that information. Don Juan Mancha lived for some years in Chicago, as well, working for local labels there.

I haven't ruled out the possibility of it existing. I'd like to see a scan of the label. Even if the original Clearly, NOT, as my scan proves. Which Fury releases has it spelt with a "K" (other than the alleged "She Said goodbye")? If anyone has one, please post it. I don't remember seeing it spelt with a "K" on any issues.

I'm glad someone recognises that we did something right. Now, if someone would upload the Delia Renee "You're Gonna Want Me Back".......

I've never seen it on Fury. And I've looked through a LOT of US 45s from when that record was out through 1984 (but especially 1964-1972). I've never even seen it on a discography or wants list. But, with what people find in the producers/label owners garages, I'm never surprised any more. Still, I'd like to see a scan of it, before I believe it.

Does anyone have a scan of the Fury issue with the Drum songs? If so, please post label scans. Are the recordings the exact same versions as on Drum?