Robbk

I've never seen it listed as an official release. Maybe it was found on a studio demo, or a master tape from Lebaron Taylor's or Don Davis' boxes.

That's the Kapp Records logo, as that album was a Kapp record. Pied Piper placed no graphics-based logo on any of their record releases, as far as I've seen.

I can't remember ever seeing a special "Pied Piper" logo on any of their releases on RCA, Kapp, GWP, Karate, Giant, or even on that weird country production on that Golden World subsidiary label.

Drum/Elgin were NY/Conn. Metro Area companies. So, maybe that's the Hamster (NY) Jimmie (jimmy) Mack, or maybe that Elgin Record is too early (1959 or 1960?) to be the Hamster artist. Or, maybe it's a 4th Jimmy Mack. Just like all the different James/Jimmy Barnes.

Wasn't he from Philadelphia? We should ask Bobby Eli. He certainly was around on the Philly scene at that time. A little while back I would have asked Weldon McDougall. But, alas, he's no longer with us.

Yes, I have that Classics' record. Still, I am wondering if I did see a Chicago record with Jimmy Mack as an artist. It seems to ring a bell in my memory. I don't think it was just seeing Jimmy Mack as an arranger and songwriter on a few Chicago records that gives me that feeling.

Yes, it follows, and it is MUCH, MUCH better than "Test Me" (the faster, but "B" side). I would have kept it, so, I guess I never had it. I guess I never had a chance to buy it, and was unable to hear it. It's okay, but yet one of Bateman's poorer efforts.

That's what I had always been told. So it sounds like a good possibility. I'd still like to hear what Ralph, and maybe Dennis Coffey and Stu Bass and any of the others who were around remember of him. We can't ask Bob Babbit, as he's very sick in hospital right now. I also thought I had remembered seeing a Jimmy Mack release as artist on a small Chicago label (perhaps one of the Clarence Johnson or Johnny Cameron-related Master Key-related labels?). Or, maybe I only just remember his name as an arranger/producer or songwriter on several Chicago releases? Or maybe I remembered seeing the Hamster single and thought it was from Chicago, so it must be that guy? Still, I'd like to know who the Palmer artist was, if it is possible to nail it down.

I had heard from other collectors, who had some knowledge, and (possibly) from other people in the music industry that The Jimmy Mack on Palmer was from Chicago, and had always thought he was the Chicago arranger/songwriter that was the subject of "I'm Jimmy Mack". That's what most of us had assumed. I think it was Ron Murphy who told me that the Palmer guy was from Chicago. I think his recording was made by Mike Valvano with Mike Terry at Sidra's Studios or Terra-Shirma. Is Mike Valvano still alive? If so, maybe someone can ask him. Maybe Ralph Terrana knows who the guy is? I'll ask him.

So, is that Hamster Record a New York label and production? Does anyone here know who the Jimmy Mack on Palmer was (given that he wasn't the Chicago artist/writer/producer)?

The label looks "Chicagoish" and the instrumental sounds somewhat like Chicago artists I'm used to, and the writing of the song also sounds somewhat "Chicagoish". I also remember that Jimmy Mack was a Chicago artist and writer/producer. But, when I listen to this back-to back with "My World Is On Fire", the voices don't sound the same. I also know the sound of Jimmy McEachin's voice (and that is quite different from both of these). Was the Jimmy Mack on Palmer just a guy from Detroit, who never had another release? I always thought he was Chicago's Jimmy Mack, who may have been brought to Detroit by Mike Terry (who also worked in Chicago-with Jo Armstead and a few other companies there). I'm almost positive this singer CAN'T be the Palmer guy. Every person's voice is unique. They sound too far apart.

On ABC by Bateman in 1969. Are you sure it was produced (recorded) in Detroit, rather than New York? I suspect that they were done in NY. Bateman didn't record anymore in Detroit by 1967 (as far as I remember. The Flo Ballard cuts must have been recorded in NY, as they were arranged by Bert DeCouteaux. They don't sound like the Detroit artists I know. They sound like Richard Tee's artists session players that Bateman used in New York to re-create The Detroit Sound. I bet it's a record I passed up because the group name looked too "modern", and like a rock group rather than Soul group name. Although, with Robert Bateman's name on it, I'd have given it a listen. It's really weak, boring Soul. So, I may have even heard it and not bought it, as I didn't like it. Can anyone post a link to, or post an MP3 of the flip? Maybe I'll like that better.

You Brits who just know what is common in Britain (and not know what was going on in the shops in USA and on the radio there) have a very distorted view of the music business in USA during the '60s. The stock of '60s 45s that ended up in Britain is certainly more representative of what was NOT sold, than of what was sold. RCA, MGM, Columbia, WB and Capitol didn't know how to market Soul music. But, they had executives who got the notion into their heads that they should tap the burgeoning Soul market. They produced a LOT of Soul music, but never were willing to put money into pressing up store stock, as they didn't see any interest from potential buyers of those records, as they were never able to get those songs played on Black-Community radio stations, and were rarely able to get those records into local shops-with the shop workers knowing what they sounded like. The shop workers played what they heard on the radio, and what Soul company reps brought to them and played for them. As a Soul record buyer, I went into local Ghetto record shops and asked for records with songs I heard on the radio, as well as new releases by artists I knew and on record labels I liked (R&B labels). I didn't have the time to ask to hear every new RCA, Columbia, MGM, Capitol and WB Soul release. The record shop clerk wouldn't have been able to find them for me in any case. But, that same clerk surely COULD (and DID) find me all the new Chess, VJ, Atlantic, Motown, Modern/Kent, Specialty, Aladdin, Imperial, releases. Mercury and ABC were better at marketing their Soul releases than were the other Majors. As stated above, often there were many more DJ copies pressed than store stockers, and in many cases, ONLY DJs. What ended up arriving to UK was completely due to quirks of history, rather than original numbers of records pressed.

Definitely a boot using the "base" data/graphics from the Bryan Hyland. Jean Carter wouldn't have been on ABC in 1963, and Stan Applebaum and Udell didn't write "Like One".

Yes, I always thought this, as well. J-2 and the new black-labled Sue (#1-12) came out after the old, orange Sue/Symbol/Broadway/Juggy/Crackerjack/A.F.O(Sue Dist. version) were ended. It stands to reason that it was a new (re-organised) company, just as what happened with us at Airwave records (morphing into Airwave International after Airwave went bust).

I would guess so. And maybe that's why the last Poets' record came out on VEEP.

This is the first store-stock (although treated like a DJ copy - with "plug side' marked).

There were AT LEAST two variations of the white DJ-2 different pressing plant issues. Different script fonts (size and thickness).

All the gold boots I ever heard sounded fine.

I beg to differ, here. Contour was a contemporary of Flick and Bumble Bee in 1958-59. It's last release (Professor Hamilton) was concurrent with LuPine. But Lupine didn't exist when Contour started. Flick Records was West's main label at that time. Bumble Bee had finished it's run before LuPine was started.

1967 sounds right. Why would anyone doubt that These Poets are the same as the Symbol group? Ronnie Lewis was their writer on both labels, AND both labels belonged to Juggy Murray.

I've had this since a few months after it was released:

This was merely use of one of their old songs they had written for Motown. Popcorn Wylie and Bob Bateman left Motown for Correc-Tone in early 1962. Janey Bradford also worked with Correc-Tone (moonlighting under the alias of Nikky Todd, to avoid provoking and angering Berry Gordy). Bateman and Sonny Sanders' own Satintones first recorded the song for Motown in 1960. Sanders and a reformed Satintones (with Vernon Williams and Sammy Mack) (as The Pyramids) also worked at Correc-Tone. The flip was a Correc-Tone written song, but sold by Golden and Bateman to Brent/Time Records, to get needed cash. Charles Wright produced this, and wrote the song for Jobete Music. Apparently he worked in the L.A. Jobete Music office in 1963-64. This was written by Stevenson & Shaw, New York songwriters who had written for Ed Wingate's (Golden World's) Willie Kendrick, and teamed up with Raynoma Liles (Gordy) on this song for New York's Jobete Music Office.

It was one of Robert West's many small Detroit labels. He also operated Flick and Bumble Bee Records in 1958-59. The Majestics (well known Detroit group led by Johnny Mitchell) and The Playboys (AKA Fabulous Playboys) and Professor Hamilton (Bob Hamilton AKA Rob Reeco) also recorded for that label. Both Willie Hamilton's cuts were published by Jobete Music. I wonder what connection he had with Berry Gordy and Motown?

They were the same group. They were signed to Juggy Murray's Symbol Records. When Sue re-organised (1968-69, J-2 was formed). The Poets cut must be from 1968. It IS later than their Symbol releases. "Juggy" Jones -AKA "Jughead Jones" -was Archie's pal, Jughead, from the Archie Series comic books. He was also Donald Duck's neighbour in Walt Disney's Donald Duck comic books.