Robbk

Do you still need The Monticellos, Dave? If so, I'll send it.

I've seen the store stocker probably over 100 times. i've seen only a handful of the DJ issue. At least back in the day the promo was much rarer. However, I've seen that situation turn around in "modern times", with demo boxes being found and no additional store stock being found. But, I'd say the DJ of this one is much rarer.

I'd call it a "legal boot". I doubt that Vivian Carter, Jimmy Bracken, Ewart Abner, Willingham, Barry or Sam Fletcher got any of the proceeds. So, they started a new Belgian Tollie Records? What were their other releases? Wouldn't this be treated as a "boot' on the UK Northern scene, in any case, regardless of the fact that Belgium treats art as "public domain" after only 25 years (and it is considered a "legitimate re-release"?

Despite knowing the story, I'll NEVER understand how Berry came to the decision to "pull back" that issue. It had hit written all over it.

I bought everything that was cheap, and that I thought I would like. I liked a broad range of the Black American music. So, I bought a LOT of songs I liked, and the few records I didn't like, I was able to swap for records I did like. It brought me a wide range of knowledge, but didn't stop me from learning a lot about Detroit and Chicago music from 1945-1965. Unlike many of the major collectors, I DIDN'T make dealing in such records my major source of income. So, I was unable to compete with them bidding on records, and unable to gather money together to buy large warehouse stocks of records. So I was limited in my collection to the records I could find in obscure places, and could buy cheaply. But, I did alright, as I was looking a lot at the time the records were out, or soon after .

Hi Dave, I sent you 300dpi scans of both sides of The Sherrys on JJ. I have a Little Joe Cook on JJ (titled "Two-Jay") 1003/1004, "Against My Will"/"Dotl Pickle". Do you want that as well? Regards, Robb

That's right. All those with the plain label design and red-orange or orange colouring were legit '70s re-issues by Weldon. Some of them had never been issued before. The originals of the ones that had been issued, have the Harthon logo on the label.

I bought everything in the Black American genres from late 1940s through about 1969, but specialised in Detroit and Chicago Soul from 1959-1966.

Ha! Ha! I remember Steve Propes very well. We used to meet in thrift stores and fight over records (when I moved to L.A. to attend UCLA in 1966-70). He had the upper hand, as he used to deliver pies, and he "gave" pies to the workers in those stores, and they would hold out 45s and albums from the shelves, to let him have first look at them. I remember him being very angry one time, when I found an original VG++ copy of "Money" by Barrett Strong on striped Tamla, right from under his nose at the Downtown Long Beach Goodwill Store. He went on about that for years. John Raino had a record shop in Venice. I used to meet him all over the L.A. area in record shops, distributorships, warehouses, etc. We became pretty friendly. I got a lot of obscure records from him. He gave me the inspiration to run labels. Yeah. Bob Stallworth has a great collection. I don't think most Soulies would appreciate how great his records are. I also saw Art Mariano's and Henry Mariano's, and Bob Cattaneo's, and Rip Lay's collections (all from San Francisco Bay Area), as well as Dave Antrell (Antrobus)'s, and The Stolper Brothers' collections.

John Anderson had the best aggregation of Soul records I've ever seen. I guess an aggregation could also be termed a "collection". Val Shively was similar with 1953-1970 records. Of course, as he cared mainly about vocal group harmony from 1950-64, his NS records would have been few and far between in his "core collection". Most of the big record collectors I knew in USA (my generation) collected R&B/Blues/Gospel AND Soul from the early '50s through at least the early to mid '60s. most of them (also like me) liked the early R&B/Soul transition period of the early '60s, but NOT the very late '60s, and DEFINITELY NOT the 1970s. From that group, I've seen some collections that would blow any African-American Music collector away including label runs of the King/Federal/DeLuxe/Bethlehem, Modern/RPM/Flair/Crown, Bobby/Danny Robinson labels, Chess/Checker/Argo/Check-Mate, VJ/Falcon/Abner/Tollie/Vivid/Exodus, George Goldner labels, Jubilee/Josie, Gotham, Rainbow, Mercury/Wing/EmArCey/Smash/Philips/Blue Rock/Fontana, One-Der-Ful/Mar-V-Lus/M-pac/Kellmac, and on and on....with ALMOST every number. John Raino is one that comes to mind. His brother was a DJ with KDIA in San Francisco.

I only remember them playing "It's Too Late For Love" on WVON, and not the flip. It was a decent sized hit. I believe they came to Chi-Town on tour.

I don't know "most collectors", so I can't answer that question. I think both skills are very helpful in collecting. Like all skills, I imagine every collector is better at one than the other. Some might be very strong at one or the other, and other people the reverse. We use that very skill on this forum to get a handle on whether or not an "unknown" lead singer of of a particular group might be X solo artist. We just had such a controversy when someone mentioned that the lead singer of The Tempests might have also been lead singer of a single song with another group. Several of us old-timers at Soulful Detroit Forum put our heads (and ears) together to make an educated guess that Harry Gates (of The Caravelles on Starmaker) was also the lead singer of Detroit's first "Dramatics" group (Crackerjack Records), when there was no one left alive to confirm or deny it (Joe Hunter, Fred Brown).

I'll be 66 years old in November. Actually, the records I started getting in 1953 were first bought for me by my parents. I first started buying them (45s) with my own money in 1955, from the 10¢ bargain bins in record shops, and cheap 5 and 10¢ records in thrift shops and junk stores, and 10¢ sales at Woolworth's (started about 1960). My parents had a lot of Jazz and Blues 78s. They liked Black-American music. Naturally, when "Soul" music came in in the early '60s, I liked that, too. But I had gotten into the obscure 45s very early in life because all 45s were cheap (the way I bought them), and I could gamble on them without listening to them (although, usually the record shops, and even most of the thrift shops had record players we could use to play them). So, you Brits have a stereotyped idea of us Canadians and Americans regarding what music we knew about. I had thousands of obscure Soul records in my collection before many of you were wearing long pants.

I've been buying and collecting Black American music since 1953. I've had many thousands of 45s, 78s and LPs in my collection. I've looked through literally millions of records. I (like many record collectors I know) have a "photographic memory" for record labels, label catalogue numbers, record pressing plant numbers, the names of artists, producers, arrangers, songwiters, names of music publishing companies, the sounds of singers' voices, sounds of musicians, musicians' names, names of record distributors and record company owners, lists of recording dates/artists/songs, lists of pressing jobs, sales lists, wants lists. I searched for records all across USA and Canada from 1953-1972, and a little bit in UK and Europe from 1966-1980. I NEVER stop seeing and hearing "new to me" R&B and Soul songs and pressed records, which I somehow missed during my searching years. We may never know how many different R& B and Soul records were pressed on plastic (and there are always the hundreds of thousands more that were just recorded and made it only to tape and acetate or vinyl studio demos). NO ONE has the physical brain or time in his/her lifetime to know even 60% of what exists. I'm constantly "discovering" new-to-me classics from the '50s and '60s, that sound better to me than 90 % of what was released commercially.

She did sing that song on "Ready Steady Go", but i don't remember Dusty singing it together with her.

Unlike The Frank Wilson Soul and Andantes' VIP and, probably The Patrice Holloway VIP, which each may have only had the 6 pressing plant demos pressed (and The Frank Wilson-also a couple white DJs), Kim Weston's Tamla 54106 had a full press run, and was LATER pulled back from the distributors (similar to the Oma Heard VIP). That gave time for a LOT more than 6 copies to "escape" to people that worked for the distributors (assuming they never actually got to the record shops. I never saw ANY of these records in record shops. And, I was watching the record shops in Chicago and Detroit regularly, when those records were "issued". There might have been up to 50 each of the Kim Weston and Oma Heard store stockers "rescued" from being destroyed. I had only heard of about 5-6 of the Kim Weston in existence, and maybe 20-25 of Oma Heard. But, THAT means that there are probably several more in collectors' hands. Maybe after they die, more will turn up. I would have been surprised to see the Kim Weston go for much more than $1,000 US. So, £950 is a bit surprising to me. The Oma Heard went for around $200.00 US recently.

I'd kind of like to know that, myself. On a side note, I think it's the best recording we ever made.

Sorry, I don't really know ANYTHING about how it got over to the UK. I was residing mostly in The Netherlands at that time. spending only a few months a year in L.A. I was around when we recorded Mel, and met him and Zelda Samuels. We had a press run of white background, blue font 12-inchers on Airwave International, and I heard it got some play in the dance clubs. There was talk about possibly marketing it in England, but I didn't get involved in that. That happened after I returned to Holland, and I never learned what happened there. I don't remember hearing about any sales in UK. But, in any case, the main money made there for us was just the upfront money in leasing the rights.

Good thing Berry Gordy recognised that reality, and leased out "Come To Me" and "Money", or we'd never have had the Great Motown Corporation, and it's great '60s production.

White Cliffs Records was a subsidiary of Dover Records. Most of the latter that I have seen have White Cliffs Music as their publisher. The distributorship, Dover Records, White Cliffs Records and White Cliffs Music must have been under the same umbrella and ownership, possibly with different co-owning partners in the different subsidiaries.

You are correct. We never put it on a 45, - only on 12". There was no 7" test pressing.

That looks real to me. The raised label area looks like the original style, the label script and font looks real, and not reproduced from a photo. There could easily have been a mis-spelling of Galliant done on one of the pressings of the original issue. That occurred many times in those days, especially with labels with names that are easy to mis-spell. I'd bet that that is original.

What year was the Gloria Jones recorded? It sounds like 1967 or 1968.

The instrumentation sounds like Chicago from 1967-69 or so. I seem to remember her voice as a Chicago artist with some records I have. But, not under the name Toni Williams. But, I think I also remember a female Toni Williams having at least one record released (but earlier-possibly 1962-64?)-maybe on Chess or Checker?

I listened to that cut, and it is certainly "Oh Love". I didn't hear any "Duke of Soul" in the recording. I've never heard of any "Duke of Soul" as a flip to "Wasting Time".