Robbk

The label looks "Chicagoish" and the instrumental sounds somewhat like Chicago artists I'm used to, and the writing of the song also sounds somewhat "Chicagoish". I also remember that Jimmy Mack was a Chicago artist and writer/producer. But, when I listen to this back-to back with "My World Is On Fire", the voices don't sound the same. I also know the sound of Jimmy McEachin's voice (and that is quite different from both of these). Was the Jimmy Mack on Palmer just a guy from Detroit, who never had another release? I always thought he was Chicago's Jimmy Mack, who may have been brought to Detroit by Mike Terry (who also worked in Chicago-with Jo Armstead and a few other companies there). I'm almost positive this singer CAN'T be the Palmer guy. Every person's voice is unique. They sound too far apart.

On ABC by Bateman in 1969. Are you sure it was produced (recorded) in Detroit, rather than New York? I suspect that they were done in NY. Bateman didn't record anymore in Detroit by 1967 (as far as I remember. The Flo Ballard cuts must have been recorded in NY, as they were arranged by Bert DeCouteaux. They don't sound like the Detroit artists I know. They sound like Richard Tee's artists session players that Bateman used in New York to re-create The Detroit Sound. I bet it's a record I passed up because the group name looked too "modern", and like a rock group rather than Soul group name. Although, with Robert Bateman's name on it, I'd have given it a listen. It's really weak, boring Soul. So, I may have even heard it and not bought it, as I didn't like it. Can anyone post a link to, or post an MP3 of the flip? Maybe I'll like that better.

You Brits who just know what is common in Britain (and not know what was going on in the shops in USA and on the radio there) have a very distorted view of the music business in USA during the '60s. The stock of '60s 45s that ended up in Britain is certainly more representative of what was NOT sold, than of what was sold. RCA, MGM, Columbia, WB and Capitol didn't know how to market Soul music. But, they had executives who got the notion into their heads that they should tap the burgeoning Soul market. They produced a LOT of Soul music, but never were willing to put money into pressing up store stock, as they didn't see any interest from potential buyers of those records, as they were never able to get those songs played on Black-Community radio stations, and were rarely able to get those records into local shops-with the shop workers knowing what they sounded like. The shop workers played what they heard on the radio, and what Soul company reps brought to them and played for them. As a Soul record buyer, I went into local Ghetto record shops and asked for records with songs I heard on the radio, as well as new releases by artists I knew and on record labels I liked (R&B labels). I didn't have the time to ask to hear every new RCA, Columbia, MGM, Capitol and WB Soul release. The record shop clerk wouldn't have been able to find them for me in any case. But, that same clerk surely COULD (and DID) find me all the new Chess, VJ, Atlantic, Motown, Modern/Kent, Specialty, Aladdin, Imperial, releases. Mercury and ABC were better at marketing their Soul releases than were the other Majors. As stated above, often there were many more DJ copies pressed than store stockers, and in many cases, ONLY DJs. What ended up arriving to UK was completely due to quirks of history, rather than original numbers of records pressed.

Definitely a boot using the "base" data/graphics from the Bryan Hyland. Jean Carter wouldn't have been on ABC in 1963, and Stan Applebaum and Udell didn't write "Like One".

Yes, I always thought this, as well. J-2 and the new black-labled Sue (#1-12) came out after the old, orange Sue/Symbol/Broadway/Juggy/Crackerjack/A.F.O(Sue Dist. version) were ended. It stands to reason that it was a new (re-organised) company, just as what happened with us at Airwave records (morphing into Airwave International after Airwave went bust).

I would guess so. And maybe that's why the last Poets' record came out on VEEP.

This is the first store-stock (although treated like a DJ copy - with "plug side' marked).

There were AT LEAST two variations of the white DJ-2 different pressing plant issues. Different script fonts (size and thickness).

All the gold boots I ever heard sounded fine.

I beg to differ, here. Contour was a contemporary of Flick and Bumble Bee in 1958-59. It's last release (Professor Hamilton) was concurrent with LuPine. But Lupine didn't exist when Contour started. Flick Records was West's main label at that time. Bumble Bee had finished it's run before LuPine was started.

1967 sounds right. Why would anyone doubt that These Poets are the same as the Symbol group? Ronnie Lewis was their writer on both labels, AND both labels belonged to Juggy Murray.

I've had this since a few months after it was released:

This was merely use of one of their old songs they had written for Motown. Popcorn Wylie and Bob Bateman left Motown for Correc-Tone in early 1962. Janey Bradford also worked with Correc-Tone (moonlighting under the alias of Nikky Todd, to avoid provoking and angering Berry Gordy). Bateman and Sonny Sanders' own Satintones first recorded the song for Motown in 1960. Sanders and a reformed Satintones (with Vernon Williams and Sammy Mack) (as The Pyramids) also worked at Correc-Tone. The flip was a Correc-Tone written song, but sold by Golden and Bateman to Brent/Time Records, to get needed cash. Charles Wright produced this, and wrote the song for Jobete Music. Apparently he worked in the L.A. Jobete Music office in 1963-64. This was written by Stevenson & Shaw, New York songwriters who had written for Ed Wingate's (Golden World's) Willie Kendrick, and teamed up with Raynoma Liles (Gordy) on this song for New York's Jobete Music Office.

It was one of Robert West's many small Detroit labels. He also operated Flick and Bumble Bee Records in 1958-59. The Majestics (well known Detroit group led by Johnny Mitchell) and The Playboys (AKA Fabulous Playboys) and Professor Hamilton (Bob Hamilton AKA Rob Reeco) also recorded for that label. Both Willie Hamilton's cuts were published by Jobete Music. I wonder what connection he had with Berry Gordy and Motown?

They were the same group. They were signed to Juggy Murray's Symbol Records. When Sue re-organised (1968-69, J-2 was formed). The Poets cut must be from 1968. It IS later than their Symbol releases. "Juggy" Jones -AKA "Jughead Jones" -was Archie's pal, Jughead, from the Archie Series comic books. He was also Donald Duck's neighbour in Walt Disney's Donald Duck comic books.

Laura Johnson recorded for Correc-Tone Records (produced by Robert Bateman) in 1962. Owner, Wilbur Golden was short on production money, so he leased that record to Brent records in New York. "Wondering If You Miss Me" was a Correc-Tone song, which would have been published by Bateman's Brianbert Music. But He and Golden also sold the publishing rights to it to Brent Music. It was the flip side (A-side) of that release that was the Jobete song ("I Know How It Feels"), which was a remake of a Motown original production sung by Bateman's own Satintones. That was a case of Bateman just recording his own song two years later. Robert Bateman, Sonny Sanders and Popcorn Wylie (and The Satintones-partly reformed as The Pyramids) had all left Motown in early 1962 to join Wilbur Golden's Correc-Tone/SonBert Records. Brian Holland and Mickey Stevenson had told them about making the move (they had first planned to move first, but later decided to stay at Motown).

That was originally recorded by Jimmy Ruffin. Clay Hunt's version was recorded later. That was just a situation in which his producer chose a Jobete published song for his artist to sing. That's totally different from my quest to hear Motown-recorded versions of songs written by out-of-Detroit Jobete music contracted writer/producers, who were writing songs to sell to Motown.

Frances Burnett's cuts were related to Berry Gordy's involvement with Brunswick with Jackie Wilson, but The Exotics' cuts were due to a relationship of their management with the Jobete Music's New York office's writers/producers (George Kerr, and maybe Eddie Singleton). The Sparkels, Pets, Tamala Lewis, Roy Handy and others sang Jobete songs from that source. The Paris and Sandy Wynns releases on Doc Records were Hal Davis' and Edd Cobb's attempt to get those cuts better distribution in The East Coast, rather than to "hide" the fact that they were "moonlighting" from their work at L.A.'s Jobete Music Office. Davis, Frank Wilson, Marc Gordan, Al Capps, Willie Hutchison and H.B. Barnum were all releasing their own productions of Jobete songs by their own L.A. non-Motown artists on labels such as Modern/Kent, Joker, Power, Tollie, Dee Gee, etc., and Motown knew about that. They did NOT have exclusive contracts to produce only for Motown. They were allowed to use their songs written for Motown in their non-Motown productions, if after a certain time period, Motown chose not to have their own release of the given song. I looked through The Motown Vaults for songs to place on Motown "Oldies" archive series "From The Vaults" in the 1970s. There were so many recordings, we just couldn't get to it all. I am still hearing new vinyl-unreleased Motown recordings all the time as Harry Weinger & crew "discover" them. I didn't know, back in te old days, that Motown artists had recorded "I'm So Thankful", "You Hit Me(Right Where it Hurt Me)", "My Heart is Calling You", and several others. "The Touch of Venus" was recorded by Patrice Holloway for Motown. I'd be curious to know if Motown artists recorded any of the Tamala Lewis, Roy Handy, Pets, Sparkels, Exotics or other NY Jobete songs, and if they recorded any of the Judy Hughes, Pat Hunt, Cinderellas, Mary Love, Connie Clark, Ricardo Lewis, Paris, Autographs, etc. L.A. Jobete cuts. I'm most interested to hear Motown versions of "You Turned My Bitter into Sweet" and "Let Me Know" done by Mary Love, "Just Call On Me" by Eddie (Frank) Wilson and "Love's Gonna Do You In" by The Autographs. I'd bet that no Motown artists recorded "You Won't Say Nothin' " by Tamala Lewis, or any others of the George Clinton or Kerr and Barnes non-Motown releases (Dolls, Norma Jenkins, Roy Handy, Pets, Sparkels, etc. ). It's a shame that Gordy shut down the New York Jobete office before Motown could get the rights to "That Was My Girl" (Parliaments). I'm sure that George Clinton wrote that originally to sell to Jobete Music for The Temptations to sing. It's a great Wingate production, but I'd have liked to hear a Motown-recorded version (even with the same Parliaments' vocals,-or sung by The Temptations). Too bad Ed Cobb left Motown because they didn't want to give him production credit and pay for his production of "Every Little Bit Hurts" by Brenda Holloway. IF he HAD stayed with Motown, maybe "Run One Flight of Stairs" and some of the other great Gloria Jones cuts would have been recorded by The Funk Brothers, and Gloria Jones would have been signed to Motown in 1964, rather than waiting until the 1970s.

That is DEFINITELY the late '70s L.A. pressed styrene Monarch pressing plant bootleg. You can see the Delta number 100,000 series etched into the run-out trail, which places it in the late 1970s. The numbers on the boot are 102881-X ("You Didn't Have to Leave"), and 102881 ("You Wouldn't Understand"). The original was only pressed on vinyl, as far as I know, and in an Eastern pressing plant. I believe that the original label colour was a different shade of red, and didn't have that margin between it's outer edge and the run-out trail (e.g. it filled out the area reserved for the label to its edge). I think that the font was also different in places.

"Crazy For You" was a Jobete Music song, produced by Al Capps for Motown's Jobete Music office in L.A. I wonder if any of Motown's signed artists recorded it (as "My Heart is Calling" by The Magnificents was recorded by The Four Tops, and "I'm So Thankful" by The Ikettes was recorded by Barbara Randolph, and ""You Hit Me (Right Where it Hurt Me)" by Alice Clark was recorded by Kim Weston)? As The Motown Vaults are continuously being searched for overlooked gems, more of the L.A. and N.Y. Jobete songs that were used by outside producers on non-Motown labels will be discovered to have been recorded in Detroit by Motown artists.

Cameo-Parkway distributed Calla in USA. Apparently, CP also got distribution rights to Calla in The UK (in that same agreement, or a related, separate one). The only relationship of Swan Records to Cameo-Parkway that I know was that both were located in Philadelphia, and both had Dick Clark as a minority owner. Not sure why CP would have been involved in litigation over Beatles' product.

Upon seeing that label, I'm SURE I bought that record in 1969. I don't know why my copy isn't with my other Red Balloon records. But I'm sure I didn't trade it away. So, it must be misshelved, or with a batch of about 2,000 Soul singles that I loaned a friend to tape. Of course, I wouldn't want to sell it. Someone had a few of those. I think it was John Anderson, but I don't remember for sure.

Sorry. I hadn't noticed that it was Red Balloon 03 you were discussing with "Fool For You"/"Fear Not". I didn't know about that record. After hearing The Jack Moves' version, I am curious to hear the Ledgends'.

First, "Fear Not"/"Gotta Let You Go" was issued on Locket (Clarence Johnson's and Johnny Cameron's label?) (local Chicago). Then, it was leased to Commonwealth United Records for national distribution. Later (1 year?), "Gotta Let You Go" was re-issued on Chicago's Red Balloon Records. Interesting that a small, local, Chicago label, clearly pressed in a Chicago pressing plant, lists an L.A. address for its corporation. Any insight into that, Bob? We know that The Ledgends and Sunday Williams recordings were made in Chicago, and Clarence Johnson and Johnny Cameron were working in Chicago then (never in L.A.). Could it be that the financier of the label operated out of L.A.?

Yes, I see now that I have a few styrene L.A. Monarch pressings that have both the ATCO number AND the Monarch delta sign and number etched into the trail. HA! And now that I look even more closely, one of my "Almost"/"Don't Sign The Paper" issues is from Monarch. The "Almost" side is 70627, and, curiously, the HIT side, "Don't Sign The Paper" is 70628. Unfortunately, my Carlas were not pressed at Monarch. So I can't compare the numbers. 70600 places it in mid-March of 1968. But Delph's Carla release of "Almost" must certainly have been between the tail end of 1966 and early 1967.