Robbk

John Anderson had the best aggregation of Soul records I've ever seen. I guess an aggregation could also be termed a "collection". Val Shively was similar with 1953-1970 records. Of course, as he cared mainly about vocal group harmony from 1950-64, his NS records would have been few and far between in his "core collection". Most of the big record collectors I knew in USA (my generation) collected R&B/Blues/Gospel AND Soul from the early '50s through at least the early to mid '60s. most of them (also like me) liked the early R&B/Soul transition period of the early '60s, but NOT the very late '60s, and DEFINITELY NOT the 1970s. From that group, I've seen some collections that would blow any African-American Music collector away including label runs of the King/Federal/DeLuxe/Bethlehem, Modern/RPM/Flair/Crown, Bobby/Danny Robinson labels, Chess/Checker/Argo/Check-Mate, VJ/Falcon/Abner/Tollie/Vivid/Exodus, George Goldner labels, Jubilee/Josie, Gotham, Rainbow, Mercury/Wing/EmArCey/Smash/Philips/Blue Rock/Fontana, One-Der-Ful/Mar-V-Lus/M-pac/Kellmac, and on and on....with ALMOST every number. John Raino is one that comes to mind. His brother was a DJ with KDIA in San Francisco.

I only remember them playing "It's Too Late For Love" on WVON, and not the flip. It was a decent sized hit. I believe they came to Chi-Town on tour.

I don't know "most collectors", so I can't answer that question. I think both skills are very helpful in collecting. Like all skills, I imagine every collector is better at one than the other. Some might be very strong at one or the other, and other people the reverse. We use that very skill on this forum to get a handle on whether or not an "unknown" lead singer of of a particular group might be X solo artist. We just had such a controversy when someone mentioned that the lead singer of The Tempests might have also been lead singer of a single song with another group. Several of us old-timers at Soulful Detroit Forum put our heads (and ears) together to make an educated guess that Harry Gates (of The Caravelles on Starmaker) was also the lead singer of Detroit's first "Dramatics" group (Crackerjack Records), when there was no one left alive to confirm or deny it (Joe Hunter, Fred Brown).

I'll be 66 years old in November. Actually, the records I started getting in 1953 were first bought for me by my parents. I first started buying them (45s) with my own money in 1955, from the 10¢ bargain bins in record shops, and cheap 5 and 10¢ records in thrift shops and junk stores, and 10¢ sales at Woolworth's (started about 1960). My parents had a lot of Jazz and Blues 78s. They liked Black-American music. Naturally, when "Soul" music came in in the early '60s, I liked that, too. But I had gotten into the obscure 45s very early in life because all 45s were cheap (the way I bought them), and I could gamble on them without listening to them (although, usually the record shops, and even most of the thrift shops had record players we could use to play them). So, you Brits have a stereotyped idea of us Canadians and Americans regarding what music we knew about. I had thousands of obscure Soul records in my collection before many of you were wearing long pants.

I've been buying and collecting Black American music since 1953. I've had many thousands of 45s, 78s and LPs in my collection. I've looked through literally millions of records. I (like many record collectors I know) have a "photographic memory" for record labels, label catalogue numbers, record pressing plant numbers, the names of artists, producers, arrangers, songwiters, names of music publishing companies, the sounds of singers' voices, sounds of musicians, musicians' names, names of record distributors and record company owners, lists of recording dates/artists/songs, lists of pressing jobs, sales lists, wants lists. I searched for records all across USA and Canada from 1953-1972, and a little bit in UK and Europe from 1966-1980. I NEVER stop seeing and hearing "new to me" R&B and Soul songs and pressed records, which I somehow missed during my searching years. We may never know how many different R& B and Soul records were pressed on plastic (and there are always the hundreds of thousands more that were just recorded and made it only to tape and acetate or vinyl studio demos). NO ONE has the physical brain or time in his/her lifetime to know even 60% of what exists. I'm constantly "discovering" new-to-me classics from the '50s and '60s, that sound better to me than 90 % of what was released commercially.

She did sing that song on "Ready Steady Go", but i don't remember Dusty singing it together with her.

Unlike The Frank Wilson Soul and Andantes' VIP and, probably The Patrice Holloway VIP, which each may have only had the 6 pressing plant demos pressed (and The Frank Wilson-also a couple white DJs), Kim Weston's Tamla 54106 had a full press run, and was LATER pulled back from the distributors (similar to the Oma Heard VIP). That gave time for a LOT more than 6 copies to "escape" to people that worked for the distributors (assuming they never actually got to the record shops. I never saw ANY of these records in record shops. And, I was watching the record shops in Chicago and Detroit regularly, when those records were "issued". There might have been up to 50 each of the Kim Weston and Oma Heard store stockers "rescued" from being destroyed. I had only heard of about 5-6 of the Kim Weston in existence, and maybe 20-25 of Oma Heard. But, THAT means that there are probably several more in collectors' hands. Maybe after they die, more will turn up. I would have been surprised to see the Kim Weston go for much more than $1,000 US. So, £950 is a bit surprising to me. The Oma Heard went for around $200.00 US recently.

I'd kind of like to know that, myself. On a side note, I think it's the best recording we ever made.

Sorry, I don't really know ANYTHING about how it got over to the UK. I was residing mostly in The Netherlands at that time. spending only a few months a year in L.A. I was around when we recorded Mel, and met him and Zelda Samuels. We had a press run of white background, blue font 12-inchers on Airwave International, and I heard it got some play in the dance clubs. There was talk about possibly marketing it in England, but I didn't get involved in that. That happened after I returned to Holland, and I never learned what happened there. I don't remember hearing about any sales in UK. But, in any case, the main money made there for us was just the upfront money in leasing the rights.

Good thing Berry Gordy recognised that reality, and leased out "Come To Me" and "Money", or we'd never have had the Great Motown Corporation, and it's great '60s production.

White Cliffs Records was a subsidiary of Dover Records. Most of the latter that I have seen have White Cliffs Music as their publisher. The distributorship, Dover Records, White Cliffs Records and White Cliffs Music must have been under the same umbrella and ownership, possibly with different co-owning partners in the different subsidiaries.

You are correct. We never put it on a 45, - only on 12". There was no 7" test pressing.

That looks real to me. The raised label area looks like the original style, the label script and font looks real, and not reproduced from a photo. There could easily have been a mis-spelling of Galliant done on one of the pressings of the original issue. That occurred many times in those days, especially with labels with names that are easy to mis-spell. I'd bet that that is original.

What year was the Gloria Jones recorded? It sounds like 1967 or 1968.

The instrumentation sounds like Chicago from 1967-69 or so. I seem to remember her voice as a Chicago artist with some records I have. But, not under the name Toni Williams. But, I think I also remember a female Toni Williams having at least one record released (but earlier-possibly 1962-64?)-maybe on Chess or Checker?

I listened to that cut, and it is certainly "Oh Love". I didn't hear any "Duke of Soul" in the recording. I've never heard of any "Duke of Soul" as a flip to "Wasting Time".

This is what I've always heard about him. I would have been shocked to hear that he cheated anyone in The Business, in his dealings.

He was from L.A. and his real name was Jimmy Easter. He was a big draw on the club scene in l.A. for many years, and also was a producer for a while.

The story of Mickey Stevenson leasing the 2 cuts to IPG is correct. IPG was a New York label, which leased recordings from all over USA. As far as I know there were no other cuts from Detroit on their label (although IPG-distributed Sahara Records issued a Marva Josie record 5501-which featured a Jobete written song that listed Correc-Tone writers: Sonny Sanders and Willie Harbert). Another Detroit connection. Those 2 records are the only connections of IPG with Detroit that I know. Did the aforementioned "heavy Detroit connections unclude any others?

"It Ain't The Meat", It's The Motion-Swallows "Big Ten Inch Record"-Bullmoose Jackson and His Buffalo Bearcats "I Want A Bowlegged Woman"-Bullmoose Jackson and His Buffalo Bearcats "Rocket 69"-Todd Rhodes Orchestra featuring Connie Allen "Work With Me Annie"-Royals "Fever"-Little Willie John "Big Long Slidin' Thing"-Dinah Washington

"Just Loving You" was sung by Tearra. They sound like an African-American Soul Group. "Tierra" in Spanish means "land" in English. Tierra is a Mexican-American (Chicano) group that sings in both Spanish and English. They often sing Soul or Soul-based tunes.

As far as I know there is only one group called Tierra. They are a Latino group from East L.A., who sing Soul music. Their big hit I remember was "Suavecito". I believe that they have one or two female members, or else they add female background singers in many of their recordings. They are very, very well known. So, I doubt that there are 2 different groups called Tierra.

We need to find out when the Sykes/Carter Tinedele published song was registered, or see if the Delle record has a pressing plant number that can be dated. Is that Delle record a Monarch pressing? If so, please tell us the number.

I've never seen nor heard of it, It looks like that "label" could be a music studio demo, rather than a record company.

Who produced The Vashons? Maybe I have it and have forgotten. Can you (or anyone else) post a scan (please)? It was written by Willie Hutch. Maybe he was working for Gordon while Gordon had his working agreement with WB, and it was first recorded by The Marveloos. OR, maybe it was recorded first by The Vashons, when Hutch was working with the Delle crew, who worked for the owner of Tinadele, and the publishing of the song was later purchased by Gordon for Finesse, when he decided to produce the song recorded by The Marvellos. Knowing who produced the Vashons and trying to date that release would help. I think I have a couple records by The Vashons. I know this one is on Delle. I don't have time to look through every record on my L.A. indie label shelves to find it. So, I hope someone can post a scan of it.