Robbk

Speaking of Dee Dee having 3 songs produced by Jerry Butler's "Conlo Productions (the 3rd being released on Cameo/Parkway subsidiary Fairmount), I wonder in which studio those were cut, and which background singers were used. Conlo also produced another Barrett Strong Jalynne song sung by The Orlons (Cameo 384) ("No Love But Your Love"). I assume that Conlo came about When Jerry Butler started working a lot of the time in Philadelphia, after Mercury Records started him working with Gamble and Hufff in 1965. The Conlo Records label has a Philadelphia building on its logo, and I didn't recognise any Chicago artists on its releases. Also, the recordings by Dee Dee and The Orlons sound more like Philadelphia recordings than Chicago (although, they captured the Chicago style very well). I assume that Butler (who had worked with Barrett Strong when they were together at VJ Records) (1962-early 1965) contacted him to write some material for artists with whom he wanted to work (in Philadelphia). They were Jalynne songs, as Strong had, by then, an exclusive contract with Carl Davis. So, I would like to know which Philadelphia studio recorded them, which person was the producer and ran the session (Butler and Strong? or a Philly producer?)if, indeed they were not recorded in Chicago. There was a male group (or single male) singing backgrounds, and also a female group on some of these cuts. Does anyone know who they were? Cameo/Parkway groups of the period? Does anyone know if Jerry Butler relocated to Philadelphia for his Gamble/Huff years? Or did he just have an apartment there, and keep his house in Chicagoland, and commute back and forth? I was surprised to find out that he worked with people in Philadelphia away from Gamble and Huff and their association with Mercury Records. The Dee Dee Sharp and Orlons work must have come through Gamble and Huff because they were working with Cameo-Parkway at the time. But some most (if not all) of the Conlo Records' productions seem to have no connection to Gamble and Huff.

I also like "I Really love You". But, as a Chicagoan, I'm really partial to her Chicago style Conlo productions, "Standing In The Need Of Love" and "It's A Funny Situation". I could hear Barbara Green on Vivid, or Mary Wells on ATCO singing these 2 great Barrett Strong Chicago compositions/arrangements: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rux1nN6CP5g

I used to have several hundred R&B and Blues 78s, but I traded them off over the years for old R&B 45s.

It's very nice. I've never seen that Age record.

If there was only one member of The Creations named Williams, then, the 2nd Williams in the writing credits would be Andre Williams (their producer). It is interesting that Motown put both their groups from Toledo on their Mel-o-dy subsidiary. Of course, Toledo, Ohio was always considered a part of the Greater Detroit Metropolitan Area, rather than part of a Western Ohio Metro Area. Almost all the Detroit acts played in Toledo, as well.

That one must be VERY, VERY rare. I've never seen it.

I do know that those "Esquires" are not the same Milwaukee group that had the hits with Bunky on Bunky and Wand records.

Yes, that's the one. Only one copy known, as far as I know. I've never even seen a scan of the flip.

I have the Mary Johnson on Foxy, and I have one of The Ideals records on Paso Records. I also have a lot of other Richard Stamz productions on other labels, including on ABC, and several miniscule, one-shot Chicago labels. But, as I stated above, it will be about 4 weeks until I can get to them.

Yes, but THAT was originally released on Sebon Foster's other label: Nation Time Records (formerly Nation Records).

The Francis Burr has a couple bluesy cuts on her release. I assume that you know about The V Wagers (Five Wagers)-"Lucky I Found You". Bobby Rush had several 45s released on Salem.

Smokey wrote "My Smile Is Just A Frown Turned Upside Down" in 1964, and "Tears of a Clown" in 1966. There were 2 years between. And only 2 of his hundreds of songs mention Pagliacci. So, I wouldn't guess that he was 'fixated" with that thought for the whole 2 years. As to "Tears of A Clown" by The Miracles, it's clear that both Jamerson and Babbitt played on versions of that song. The question is which of them (or when can both) be heard on which versions. I'm still unclear as to whether or not Babbitt was playing on the 1966 recording for the US LP, and whether his new playing was tracked over the original to embelish it for the 1970 US 45 release.

Yes, "a few years" for me, could mean end of the '80s/early '90s (time goes by extremely fast after one reaches 60 years old). And, yes, I read (and heard from several others) that The Charters were from Toledo, and that the one record was found there. I'd always heard that The Creations were a local group from Detroit, with which Andre Williams was deeply involved (possibly also their manager, in addition to being their Motown producer). It was even suggested that he was related to one of the group (also named Williams-there are two Williams among the writing credits). I've never heard that The Creations were from Toledo. What is the source for that information?

Yes, Motown was said to only have pressed up a box of 25 of white DJ copies of Mel-O-Dy 104, to give to DJs themselves. Motown never listed 104 as by The Charters in their schedules. It was never even put into the Motown Record Corp. or Jobete Music Record Files. The Charters were a Toledo group that approached Motown to press up their record. Both sides don't sound like Motown recordings. It is surmised that their producer in Toledo had the recordings made, and they came to Motown to get them pressed up. Motown did absolutely NOTHING to market them. I never saw ANY reference to The Charters or their record in the paperwork at Motown, or in any other source. It was always thought of as an unused number. It has only been known for a few years, after the only copy known was found among someone's personal belongings in Toledo (probably a relative of one of the group or their producer).

I've got the record, but, unfortunately, I don't have access to my 45s within the next several weeks. I hope someone else can scan the sides for you.

Exactly this. I'm not sure if they changed the bass line, bur Babbitt was the one who we hear on the US 45 version (whether it be from 1967 or 1970). He started on regular Motown recordings in 1967.

Many of those on that long list were NEVER pressed in any form. They were "scheduled", but withdrawn before scheduling. The Frank Wilson, Andantes, Patrice Holloway were all pressed (at LEAST the 6 pressing plant store stock pressing plant test pressings). Many of the others (Kim Weston, Oma Heard) actually got out to distributors, and some stores, before being recalled. Gordy 7004, Miracle 3 and 4, and many others never were pressed in any form (other than acetate or music studio blank label test pressing). Many of those were scheduled for release on one Motown label, and moved to another (Serenaders, Lollipops, LaBrenda Ben, etc,). Little Iva-Raynoma Gordy had a batch of 25 or 50 pressed up on Miracle in 1963 for her own use. Not ONE was pressed in 1961, when that record had been scheduled.

Was that released on King Records, as well? I have only seen it on Federal 12506. I know that a LOT of Federal and DeLuxe recordings were re-released on King in later years. But I've not seen one of this record, nor have I seen it on any discography of the label.

Yes there was,-: Argo 5373 Don and Bob "Shy Guy" / "Little Red Schoolhouse" 1960 Usually, the standard artist contract provided for release of one 45, followed by the record company option on the artists second release. Sometimes the company took that option (especially if the first release sold well), and other times the company chose not to spend the money on a second release. In this case, the second release sold much more. But, yet, a second contract was not offered.

Thanks Ady for drawing that to my attention. Senility strikes again. Ric-O-lac Music IS Richard Stamz's personal music publishing company-NOT Ric Williams'! I got my Chicago Rics switched. Of course, RicWil and WilRic were Ric Williams' publishers. I'm used to my "short-term" memory having problems, but it's kind of scary to be losing long-term memory of things I've known for over 40-45 years. I probably would have caught that mix-up, but it still irks me.

The two Argo cuts sound like they could have been cut in Chicago. It's significant that there was no Music Publisher that shared the rights with Chess' Arc Music, as they normally did when Chess leased recordings from the original release label. So, it seems that, perhaps Don and Bob brought their songs to Chess in Chicago, were signed and recorded there. I know that Don later moved there. No producers were listed on Chess records, so we don't know who ran the session. That was before Ter-Mar Studio was set up, so, I guess it was recorded at Universal Sound Studios.

I have some of Rudy's records. I never knew his father was Bob love. It's not only a small World, but a small business!

Thanks Dave. It's a small World. At Airwave, we were working with Don on two songs to release, but things got in the way, and we never released them: ( "Swept Away" and "Love Just Let Me Down Again"). Both were ballads, and non NS material, but quite good quality Soul. So, his son, Don Junior IS the successful Rapper!

I now see that there is a young rapper also Named Don Level. I wonder is he is the Chicago Don Level's son?

A very ordinary bluesy midtempo with a weak instrumental. Just because there is only one known copy doesn't mean people are willing to pay many thousands of Dollars/Pounds/Euros. I'd be surprised if he got a 20th of that price.