Robbk

I remember reading that although Robert Bateman had The Hib Luther Ingram record instrumental tracks recorded in Detroit, BOTH the lead vocals and background vocals AND all instrumental tracks of the Smash record were recorded in New York, produced by Bateman, with Richard Tee arranging. The G-men were just a reference to The FBI. There was no special band (Bateman's usual New York crew (with Richard Tee, pretty Purdie, et al) was used, and the G-Men weren't a special background group.

I am trying to put together a list of productions with Richard Stamz's involvement. I'd like to know if anyone has info on the following: Any Fox Records (Chicago 1962 label) other than 5014 Foxy 003, 007 & 008 Catalinas - "Lonely Mood" (I'm sure I've seen this on a small Chicago label (distributed by C.J.?)) Tony Gideon - "So Strange"/"I'm Gonna Put You To Work" (Chess?) Willie Williams - "Going Back Home"/"South Park Shuffle" And please list any Stamz-related releases on labels other than Fox/Foxy, and Harold Burrage/The Ideals/Flora D. on Paso Records, Ze Majestiks on ABC and The Opals on Beltone. Any OTHER records with a music publisher named "Ric-O-Lac", "Rik_O-Lac", "Ric-O-Lak" or "Rec-O-Lac" (error) Thanks.

Bob, I'm very curious about that Sharp Records label. Could you please list the music publishing company (ies) any producer/arranger credits, songwriters' names, etc.?

Soulful Kinda Music has The Jaguars' first on Faro in 1965, as well. BOTH list NO releases by Faro in 1962 (apparently they shut down operations for 1962-63, and started again in 1964.

I don't remember The Jaguars being on Faro before 1965. They would have been pretty young in 1962. Global Dog's discography shows their first in 1965.

Marv Goldberg lists the Aardell/R-Dell group's last recording session before a 1989 "revival session" as that done for Rendesvous Records in 1961. And the 1962 release on Original Sound was a re-release of 1960 session work done for Original Sound (re-recordings of previously unreleased cuts they made for R-Dell in the later mid '50s. Their 1963 Rendesvous record was a re-release of their 1961 record. In 1960, they had recorded "Green Stamps" as The T-Birds on T-Bird Records, picked up nationally bey Chess. Then, in late 1961,after te Rendesvous session and some months of sales of that record, they seem to have broken up. Manny Chavez and another member had a few records out as a duet. So, it seems as though the 1965 L.A. record I have on the blue label must be either the Chicano group (I rather don't think so, as they sound like a Black group and not like the Faro group), or a completely different group. Therefore, I conclude that the group at your 1968 event must have been the Faro group. They were the only Jaguars at that time with enough national recognition to be on such a roster.

But the label colouring is quite different. The green has a lot more grey in it, and the font wasn't yellow, but black. The font was different, as well. The boot doesn't look all that much like on original, even from a distance.

I assume (hope) that you are joking. Am I correct?

No, The matrix numbers were the same, when the record was re-issued by the same company. In the case of The Midas pressing of "The Town I Live In", the matrix number is different (possibly because it was pressed at a different plant, or possibly remastered.

The hit side was a ballad. I assume that you know that this Jaguars group was a different group from The Jaguars on R-Dell. The Faro group was all Chicanos from East L.A. There's some confusion among some fans, because the R-Dell Jaguars had one Chicano member ( the rest were African-Americans), but they were EXTREMELY popular among The Chicanos of East L.A. due to lots of plugging by Art Laboe and Huggy Boy. The Faro group members were about 10 years younger.

I suspect that they WERE the same Legends on Mickay's, as they were probably the male backing singers to J.J. Barnes on Mickay's and followed Joe Hunter to Golden World/Ric Tic, to sing additional backgrounds for J.J. Barnes. How many local groups called The Legends could exist at the same time? Could Gene (Geno) Gates be the brother of Harry (Lee) Gates?

I looked up the Downey Records' discography, and every catalogue number was accounted for (except 113-omitted for it's #13 ending and too early ('63). It must have been another, smaller L.A. label with that same blue colouring.

What do you mean by "re-issued"? Their hits like "The Town I Live in" by McKinley Mitchell, "Twine Time" by Alvin Cash & Crawlers, and "Shake A Tail Feather" by The Five Du-Tones were all pressed again on their original labels after their chart runs, to take advantage of the oldies market. "The Town I Live In" was also pressed up later on Midas Records. Are you talking about post-1970 pressings?

Brenda & Tabulations

Yes, my original issue has the same . The 3000 series was One-derful's regular pressing number series (except when they had the odd pressing done at Columbia Midwest (Chicago/Terre Haute)-then they had the ZTSC (of course). M-Pac subsidiary also used the 3000 series, as did One-derful's Gospel subsidiary, Halo Records, and also later Leaner label, Toddlin' Town (at least the earliest releases of that label did). What is interesting, is that subsidiary, Mar-V-Lus, unlike all the others, used a 2000 series!

The Jaguars, after leaving R-Dell, had releases on Original Sound in 1960-62, on Rendesvous Records in 1961 and 1963. And they had a release on a navy blue L.A. label, and were on at least one other small L.A. label in 1966 (I forget which). So, now I know who they were with in 1964.

I agree with all stated above. We can't be sure that it was actually pressed at Monarch. But, with the Delta sign , AND with a number of 54,700+, it was most likely pressed in Oct. '64, whether or not it was pressed at Monarch. !964 sounds right for that record. The Jaguars that had sung vocal group harmony (sometimes called "DooWop" on L.A.'s R-Dell label (and had the big hit with "The Way You Look Tonight", were still around (although with a member change or two. I have several records by them on small, L.A. labels (including a few on Original Sound, and Downey. But, all mine skirt around (before and after 1964). The group was big in East L.A. and San Gabriel Valley all throughout. So, I figured that would have had at least one or two out in 1964. I don't know that, patrticular Sharp label. But, it must have been located in the L.A. Metro Area. What are the names on it? I'm curious to know who they were working with in 1964.

Interesting that Ed Wolfrum was co-writer and co-producer. Mike Terry was an independent producer/arranger in 1967, who worked on a LOT of small label Detroit sessions. He also had a VERY distinguishable sax style. So, it wouldn't surprise me if we find out that he worked on this session. I never heard of a producer or label owner named Stonehouse. But then I'm no expert on the '60s Detroit Garage scene (I just know about The Underdogs and The Ones, a few groups on Hideout and A-Squared).

Speaking of Dee Dee having 3 songs produced by Jerry Butler's "Conlo Productions (the 3rd being released on Cameo/Parkway subsidiary Fairmount), I wonder in which studio those were cut, and which background singers were used. Conlo also produced another Barrett Strong Jalynne song sung by The Orlons (Cameo 384) ("No Love But Your Love"). I assume that Conlo came about When Jerry Butler started working a lot of the time in Philadelphia, after Mercury Records started him working with Gamble and Hufff in 1965. The Conlo Records label has a Philadelphia building on its logo, and I didn't recognise any Chicago artists on its releases. Also, the recordings by Dee Dee and The Orlons sound more like Philadelphia recordings than Chicago (although, they captured the Chicago style very well). I assume that Butler (who had worked with Barrett Strong when they were together at VJ Records) (1962-early 1965) contacted him to write some material for artists with whom he wanted to work (in Philadelphia). They were Jalynne songs, as Strong had, by then, an exclusive contract with Carl Davis. So, I would like to know which Philadelphia studio recorded them, which person was the producer and ran the session (Butler and Strong? or a Philly producer?)if, indeed they were not recorded in Chicago. There was a male group (or single male) singing backgrounds, and also a female group on some of these cuts. Does anyone know who they were? Cameo/Parkway groups of the period? Does anyone know if Jerry Butler relocated to Philadelphia for his Gamble/Huff years? Or did he just have an apartment there, and keep his house in Chicagoland, and commute back and forth? I was surprised to find out that he worked with people in Philadelphia away from Gamble and Huff and their association with Mercury Records. The Dee Dee Sharp and Orlons work must have come through Gamble and Huff because they were working with Cameo-Parkway at the time. But some most (if not all) of the Conlo Records' productions seem to have no connection to Gamble and Huff.

I also like "I Really love You". But, as a Chicagoan, I'm really partial to her Chicago style Conlo productions, "Standing In The Need Of Love" and "It's A Funny Situation". I could hear Barbara Green on Vivid, or Mary Wells on ATCO singing these 2 great Barrett Strong Chicago compositions/arrangements: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rux1nN6CP5g

I used to have several hundred R&B and Blues 78s, but I traded them off over the years for old R&B 45s.

It's very nice. I've never seen that Age record.

If there was only one member of The Creations named Williams, then, the 2nd Williams in the writing credits would be Andre Williams (their producer). It is interesting that Motown put both their groups from Toledo on their Mel-o-dy subsidiary. Of course, Toledo, Ohio was always considered a part of the Greater Detroit Metropolitan Area, rather than part of a Western Ohio Metro Area. Almost all the Detroit acts played in Toledo, as well.

That one must be VERY, VERY rare. I've never seen it.

I do know that those "Esquires" are not the same Milwaukee group that had the hits with Bunky on Bunky and Wand records.