Robbk

The hit side was a ballad. I assume that you know that this Jaguars group was a different group from The Jaguars on R-Dell. The Faro group was all Chicanos from East L.A. There's some confusion among some fans, because the R-Dell Jaguars had one Chicano member ( the rest were African-Americans), but they were EXTREMELY popular among The Chicanos of East L.A. due to lots of plugging by Art Laboe and Huggy Boy. The Faro group members were about 10 years younger.

I suspect that they WERE the same Legends on Mickay's, as they were probably the male backing singers to J.J. Barnes on Mickay's and followed Joe Hunter to Golden World/Ric Tic, to sing additional backgrounds for J.J. Barnes. How many local groups called The Legends could exist at the same time? Could Gene (Geno) Gates be the brother of Harry (Lee) Gates?

I looked up the Downey Records' discography, and every catalogue number was accounted for (except 113-omitted for it's #13 ending and too early ('63). It must have been another, smaller L.A. label with that same blue colouring.

What do you mean by "re-issued"? Their hits like "The Town I Live in" by McKinley Mitchell, "Twine Time" by Alvin Cash & Crawlers, and "Shake A Tail Feather" by The Five Du-Tones were all pressed again on their original labels after their chart runs, to take advantage of the oldies market. "The Town I Live In" was also pressed up later on Midas Records. Are you talking about post-1970 pressings?

Brenda & Tabulations

Yes, my original issue has the same . The 3000 series was One-derful's regular pressing number series (except when they had the odd pressing done at Columbia Midwest (Chicago/Terre Haute)-then they had the ZTSC (of course). M-Pac subsidiary also used the 3000 series, as did One-derful's Gospel subsidiary, Halo Records, and also later Leaner label, Toddlin' Town (at least the earliest releases of that label did). What is interesting, is that subsidiary, Mar-V-Lus, unlike all the others, used a 2000 series!

The Jaguars, after leaving R-Dell, had releases on Original Sound in 1960-62, on Rendesvous Records in 1961 and 1963. And they had a release on a navy blue L.A. label, and were on at least one other small L.A. label in 1966 (I forget which). So, now I know who they were with in 1964.

I agree with all stated above. We can't be sure that it was actually pressed at Monarch. But, with the Delta sign , AND with a number of 54,700+, it was most likely pressed in Oct. '64, whether or not it was pressed at Monarch. !964 sounds right for that record. The Jaguars that had sung vocal group harmony (sometimes called "DooWop" on L.A.'s R-Dell label (and had the big hit with "The Way You Look Tonight", were still around (although with a member change or two. I have several records by them on small, L.A. labels (including a few on Original Sound, and Downey. But, all mine skirt around (before and after 1964). The group was big in East L.A. and San Gabriel Valley all throughout. So, I figured that would have had at least one or two out in 1964. I don't know that, patrticular Sharp label. But, it must have been located in the L.A. Metro Area. What are the names on it? I'm curious to know who they were working with in 1964.

Interesting that Ed Wolfrum was co-writer and co-producer. Mike Terry was an independent producer/arranger in 1967, who worked on a LOT of small label Detroit sessions. He also had a VERY distinguishable sax style. So, it wouldn't surprise me if we find out that he worked on this session. I never heard of a producer or label owner named Stonehouse. But then I'm no expert on the '60s Detroit Garage scene (I just know about The Underdogs and The Ones, a few groups on Hideout and A-Squared).

Speaking of Dee Dee having 3 songs produced by Jerry Butler's "Conlo Productions (the 3rd being released on Cameo/Parkway subsidiary Fairmount), I wonder in which studio those were cut, and which background singers were used. Conlo also produced another Barrett Strong Jalynne song sung by The Orlons (Cameo 384) ("No Love But Your Love"). I assume that Conlo came about When Jerry Butler started working a lot of the time in Philadelphia, after Mercury Records started him working with Gamble and Hufff in 1965. The Conlo Records label has a Philadelphia building on its logo, and I didn't recognise any Chicago artists on its releases. Also, the recordings by Dee Dee and The Orlons sound more like Philadelphia recordings than Chicago (although, they captured the Chicago style very well). I assume that Butler (who had worked with Barrett Strong when they were together at VJ Records) (1962-early 1965) contacted him to write some material for artists with whom he wanted to work (in Philadelphia). They were Jalynne songs, as Strong had, by then, an exclusive contract with Carl Davis. So, I would like to know which Philadelphia studio recorded them, which person was the producer and ran the session (Butler and Strong? or a Philly producer?)if, indeed they were not recorded in Chicago. There was a male group (or single male) singing backgrounds, and also a female group on some of these cuts. Does anyone know who they were? Cameo/Parkway groups of the period? Does anyone know if Jerry Butler relocated to Philadelphia for his Gamble/Huff years? Or did he just have an apartment there, and keep his house in Chicagoland, and commute back and forth? I was surprised to find out that he worked with people in Philadelphia away from Gamble and Huff and their association with Mercury Records. The Dee Dee Sharp and Orlons work must have come through Gamble and Huff because they were working with Cameo-Parkway at the time. But some most (if not all) of the Conlo Records' productions seem to have no connection to Gamble and Huff.

I also like "I Really love You". But, as a Chicagoan, I'm really partial to her Chicago style Conlo productions, "Standing In The Need Of Love" and "It's A Funny Situation". I could hear Barbara Green on Vivid, or Mary Wells on ATCO singing these 2 great Barrett Strong Chicago compositions/arrangements: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rux1nN6CP5g

I used to have several hundred R&B and Blues 78s, but I traded them off over the years for old R&B 45s.

It's very nice. I've never seen that Age record.

If there was only one member of The Creations named Williams, then, the 2nd Williams in the writing credits would be Andre Williams (their producer). It is interesting that Motown put both their groups from Toledo on their Mel-o-dy subsidiary. Of course, Toledo, Ohio was always considered a part of the Greater Detroit Metropolitan Area, rather than part of a Western Ohio Metro Area. Almost all the Detroit acts played in Toledo, as well.

That one must be VERY, VERY rare. I've never seen it.

I do know that those "Esquires" are not the same Milwaukee group that had the hits with Bunky on Bunky and Wand records.

Yes, that's the one. Only one copy known, as far as I know. I've never even seen a scan of the flip.

I have the Mary Johnson on Foxy, and I have one of The Ideals records on Paso Records. I also have a lot of other Richard Stamz productions on other labels, including on ABC, and several miniscule, one-shot Chicago labels. But, as I stated above, it will be about 4 weeks until I can get to them.

Yes, but THAT was originally released on Sebon Foster's other label: Nation Time Records (formerly Nation Records).

The Francis Burr has a couple bluesy cuts on her release. I assume that you know about The V Wagers (Five Wagers)-"Lucky I Found You". Bobby Rush had several 45s released on Salem.

Smokey wrote "My Smile Is Just A Frown Turned Upside Down" in 1964, and "Tears of a Clown" in 1966. There were 2 years between. And only 2 of his hundreds of songs mention Pagliacci. So, I wouldn't guess that he was 'fixated" with that thought for the whole 2 years. As to "Tears of A Clown" by The Miracles, it's clear that both Jamerson and Babbitt played on versions of that song. The question is which of them (or when can both) be heard on which versions. I'm still unclear as to whether or not Babbitt was playing on the 1966 recording for the US LP, and whether his new playing was tracked over the original to embelish it for the 1970 US 45 release.

Yes, "a few years" for me, could mean end of the '80s/early '90s (time goes by extremely fast after one reaches 60 years old). And, yes, I read (and heard from several others) that The Charters were from Toledo, and that the one record was found there. I'd always heard that The Creations were a local group from Detroit, with which Andre Williams was deeply involved (possibly also their manager, in addition to being their Motown producer). It was even suggested that he was related to one of the group (also named Williams-there are two Williams among the writing credits). I've never heard that The Creations were from Toledo. What is the source for that information?

Yes, Motown was said to only have pressed up a box of 25 of white DJ copies of Mel-O-Dy 104, to give to DJs themselves. Motown never listed 104 as by The Charters in their schedules. It was never even put into the Motown Record Corp. or Jobete Music Record Files. The Charters were a Toledo group that approached Motown to press up their record. Both sides don't sound like Motown recordings. It is surmised that their producer in Toledo had the recordings made, and they came to Motown to get them pressed up. Motown did absolutely NOTHING to market them. I never saw ANY reference to The Charters or their record in the paperwork at Motown, or in any other source. It was always thought of as an unused number. It has only been known for a few years, after the only copy known was found among someone's personal belongings in Toledo (probably a relative of one of the group or their producer).

I've got the record, but, unfortunately, I don't have access to my 45s within the next several weeks. I hope someone else can scan the sides for you.

Exactly this. I'm not sure if they changed the bass line, bur Babbitt was the one who we hear on the US 45 version (whether it be from 1967 or 1970). He started on regular Motown recordings in 1967.