Robbk

I don't have 415 (just 417). I was only going by Flynny's discography. That lists "R & B Time" as the "B side" of Bobby Treetop's Tuff 415 release. Maybe it was changed to the vocal on a 2nd press run of 415, before they moved it over to a new catalogue number of 417? I guess stranger things have happened in the record business.

The E. Rodney Jones release on Tuff 418 was the very next issue after Bobby Treetop's 417. They were released at nearly the same time, a few months after Treetop's first issue on Tuff 415 (mainly due to a re-issue of Treetop's, removing his version of "R& B Time on the "B" side. I don't have it, just 417. But, I assume that it was just the instrumental track. Maybe Jones was playing the Bobby Treetop record on his show on WVON (I seem to remember that it WAS on his playlist), and he turned it over and liked that instrumental. So, he thought he could use that "rockin' instrumental" as a backing track for himself for use as a "theme song" radio "calling card", for better recognition from his public. Knowing that his bosses at WVON owned Chess Records, and that Chess had a distribution relationship with Spector's Tuff Records, he asked them to contact Spector to ask his permission to use "R & B Time" as a background for Jones' record, and used as the carrot (bait), that Spector could "produce" Jones' record, and release it on Tuff (rather than releasing it on Chess). This all seems much more reasonable now. The "R & B Time" instrumental on the "B" side of Bobby Treetop's first Tuff issue (Tuff 415) was replaced by the vocal, "Valentine" on 417. Maybe that move to 417 and a new, vocal B side, was to avoid having Bobby Treetop's version of "R & B Time" compete with E. Rodney Jones' new version?

I really doubt that Abner Spector would "steal' a track he had made in a deal with Chess or a WVON employee, and then use it to try to get a hit with a vocal Soul song version on his own artist. It seems more reasonable that Jones was looking for a "hot" track to use as backing for his cut, and he heard the Bobby Treetop record and picked that track. Then, because Tuff had had a relationship with Chess through its distribution, and WVON was owned by The owners of Chess Records, he got The Chess Brothers to contact Spector to use that Tuff-owned track, and, in the process, record, press and release Jones' record. Also, from the look of the Charisma pressing, it appears to have been pressed by Chess, within a few years of the Tuff pressing. The main font is the same (limiting its possibilities to no more than a few years after the Tuff release. But the font of the word "Charisma" didn't exist on records from that plant until 1966 or. more likely, 1967. So, I'd guess that The Charisma pressing is a legitimate re-issue by Chess, in 1967 or1968, AFTER Tuff was out of business (either as a favour to Rodney, or because of "oldies" sales demand). I don't think there is ANY chance that it is a bootleg.

So.... Do we know what this was? Was it the original, local, Chicago label? Or was it a pressing done later, by the rights-holder (Jones & partner), after Tuff's rights lapsed? Or was it Abner Spector re-releasing it, after Tuff stopped operations? I suspect it was a legitimate issue, rather than a bootleg, as the original stampers were used, and the label font, (other than the record company name) was the same. If it WAS a later issue, I think it likely wasn't more than a few years after the original (as the pressing plant and printer seem to have been the same, based on the look of the label and vinyl).

Maybe it's a legitimate re-issue done a few years later by Abner Spector (1968 or 1969?). They correctly credited Winlyn Music. Or maybe Tuff and Spector lost the rights (If it was an original Chicago project, funded by a Chicagoan, but leased to Tuff). However, the odds of that being the case are not great, as New York's Richard Tee arranged the songs, meaning that it is likely that AT LEAST the background tracks were recorded in New York. Perhaps Jones wrote the songs in Chicago, and maybe even recorded his vocals there (though my guess is that he went to New York to do that). The fact that Spector got 100% of the publishing rights leads me to believe that he MAY have retained rights to press the record. On the other hand, The listing of Karo-Dishi productions could represent E. Rodney Jones and his producer.

Yes, the Amy release was a re-issue re-release 3 years later, after Wiggins was released from prison, and resumed his making appearances. The follow-up on JW and IPG, and the 1964 release all must have been recorded in 1963, before he entered prison.

His follow-up to Sad Girl (was apparently released on the IPG-distributed JW Records, locally in Washington DC first, before being distributed nationally on IPG, itself). That makes it a lot more likely that it was recorded in DC or Baltimore, than in New York or elsewhere.

Yes. I can't believe I forgot that. I'm sure I've had at least 3-4 records on Jessica. Who were some of their other artists other than Willie Small and Little Edith? I'm sure I had a few by some bluesy, hard-edged Soul male single artists, but I can't remember their names. Were there any groups? I don't remember seeing any.

Yes, and Wasn't Wiggins popular there because he was a local of The greater Baltimore/DC Area, who appeared locally a lot? I'm pretty sure he recorded both sides there (rather than New York).

It looks like a Chicago pressing, but Jessica Records may have been located in St. Louis, as the Willie Small Jessica release was distributed by Del Record Distributors (out of St. Louis). His cuts also were published by Angie Music, and produced by Angie Productions (Curtis Smith ). Haskins is also a prominent name on this release, as co-producer and writer. McElrath was the other. Those names seem familiar to me as Chicago late '60s players. But, I can't place them right now. I seem to remember Jessica being a St. Louis label, and maybe Charles Drain's being associated with the label in some way. It looks like a Chicago pressing from 1968 or '69. i remember little Edith as an R&B shouter with a bluesy slant. She appeared some in Chicago (as many St. Louis artists did), but I don't remember her coming from a Chicago high school (so she may not have lived there, but only came for tour gigs.

Notice the word, "Washington", under the Jay Wiggins reference on the bottom of the paper insert. It was a local production finished in Washington, DC, and the master tape was leased to IPG. When it later was picked up by Amy/Mala/Bell, I assume that IPG lost the rights to sell it, and those rights were transferred to Amy/Mala/Bell. But, that isn't necessarily so. It may also be that they retained rights in certain geographic areas, or for certain period, when they were sold concurrently, or it may even be that IPG made the deal with Bell. I'd be curious to find out the particulars of all the deals.

I.P.G. WAS located in New York. I'm pretty sure that the Jay Wiggins recording was made in the D.C. Area, but was leased by IPG. Later, it was leased by Amy/Mala/Bell for better national distribution. IPG didn't have any producers or production staff in New York. They just leased already recorded productions from all around USA. The Dynels was produced by Ray Shanklin in L.A., and would have come out on Pan-Or Records, or Natural Records as a subsidiary or sister label of Pan-Or, had it not been picked up by IPG. IPG was similar to Amy/Mala/Bell, as they had no record production staff and only leased recordings. But, of course, Bell did that on a MUCH, MUCH larger scale.

There were two other recordings of "That's The Reason Why" in The Motown Vaults. We had had one ready for the "From The Vaults" series. It was significantly better than the version released on IPG, in my estimation. I think Mickey made a mistake, there. IPG didn't have a lot of releases on its own label, but it did distribute several other small-label independent productions from around USA (Florida, Texas, California, Michigan).

I think that must be what happened. I'm sure I bought that record before April, 1966.

I got the idea that Conlo Productions were located in Philadelphia, and they came about through an association of Chicago people working with Philadelphia people in Philadelphia, rather than Chicago. Most of the "nuts and bolts" recording people and artists came from Philadelphia. I thought this was Jerry Butler and a few of his associates, producing sessions in Philadelphia. The Conlo Records label has a picture of a well-known building in Philadelphia as its logo. Jerry Butler was already working in Philadelphia some in his early period on Mercury starting in 1965. That is the time of Conlo productions on Dee Dee Sharp and The Orlons. Jalynne Music songwriters, such as Barrett Strong, wrote songs used. But, they could have done that in Chicago. But these Conlo recording sessions took place in Philadelphia. I don't remember seeing any Chicago artists on Conlo Records. They were all from The East Coast (seemingly working out of Philadelphia). I also question the comment that Jamo Thomas came to Chicago to record for Conlo in the EARLY '60s. I think Conlo Records started in either 1964 or 1965. And, I suspect that Thomas' Conlo cuts were recorded in Philadelphia. He may have met his Satillite/St. Lawrence connections through Jerry Butler and/or Eddie Thomas, and they were the conduit that got him to Chicago. But, I suspect that he met Jerry Butler while the latter was in Philadelphia, working on his Conlo projects.

THIS jibes with my memory of Luther Ingram's Smash record coming out first, and Jamo Thomas' a few months later.

I remember reading that although Robert Bateman had The Hib Luther Ingram record instrumental tracks recorded in Detroit, BOTH the lead vocals and background vocals AND all instrumental tracks of the Smash record were recorded in New York, produced by Bateman, with Richard Tee arranging. The G-men were just a reference to The FBI. There was no special band (Bateman's usual New York crew (with Richard Tee, pretty Purdie, et al) was used, and the G-Men weren't a special background group.

I am trying to put together a list of productions with Richard Stamz's involvement. I'd like to know if anyone has info on the following: Any Fox Records (Chicago 1962 label) other than 5014 Foxy 003, 007 & 008 Catalinas - "Lonely Mood" (I'm sure I've seen this on a small Chicago label (distributed by C.J.?)) Tony Gideon - "So Strange"/"I'm Gonna Put You To Work" (Chess?) Willie Williams - "Going Back Home"/"South Park Shuffle" And please list any Stamz-related releases on labels other than Fox/Foxy, and Harold Burrage/The Ideals/Flora D. on Paso Records, Ze Majestiks on ABC and The Opals on Beltone. Any OTHER records with a music publisher named "Ric-O-Lac", "Rik_O-Lac", "Ric-O-Lak" or "Rec-O-Lac" (error) Thanks.

Bob, I'm very curious about that Sharp Records label. Could you please list the music publishing company (ies) any producer/arranger credits, songwriters' names, etc.?

Soulful Kinda Music has The Jaguars' first on Faro in 1965, as well. BOTH list NO releases by Faro in 1962 (apparently they shut down operations for 1962-63, and started again in 1964.

I don't remember The Jaguars being on Faro before 1965. They would have been pretty young in 1962. Global Dog's discography shows their first in 1965.

Marv Goldberg lists the Aardell/R-Dell group's last recording session before a 1989 "revival session" as that done for Rendesvous Records in 1961. And the 1962 release on Original Sound was a re-release of 1960 session work done for Original Sound (re-recordings of previously unreleased cuts they made for R-Dell in the later mid '50s. Their 1963 Rendesvous record was a re-release of their 1961 record. In 1960, they had recorded "Green Stamps" as The T-Birds on T-Bird Records, picked up nationally bey Chess. Then, in late 1961,after te Rendesvous session and some months of sales of that record, they seem to have broken up. Manny Chavez and another member had a few records out as a duet. So, it seems as though the 1965 L.A. record I have on the blue label must be either the Chicano group (I rather don't think so, as they sound like a Black group and not like the Faro group), or a completely different group. Therefore, I conclude that the group at your 1968 event must have been the Faro group. They were the only Jaguars at that time with enough national recognition to be on such a roster.

But the label colouring is quite different. The green has a lot more grey in it, and the font wasn't yellow, but black. The font was different, as well. The boot doesn't look all that much like on original, even from a distance.

I assume (hope) that you are joking. Am I correct?

No, The matrix numbers were the same, when the record was re-issued by the same company. In the case of The Midas pressing of "The Town I Live In", the matrix number is different (possibly because it was pressed at a different plant, or possibly remastered.