Robbk

Joe Hunter played piano and arranged this. Naturally, he had several other Motown session players playing on it. What I can't figure out, is why Armen Boladian didn't release "It's Alright To Cry Sometimes" by J,J, It's fantastic. Also, it was so modern sounding for 1965, that, at first, I thought it was an unreleased Motown cut. Speaking of that, -I've only heard 28 seconds of it. Can anyone send me an MP3 of "It's Alright To Cry Sometimes"? I'd really appreciate it. 1964-66 Motown (and related Motown soundalikes by Motown session players) are my first love in music. I've GOT to hear that whole song!

Yes! '30s-'50s Blues (both City and Delta. And '50s Vocal Group Harmony, and '40s and '50s R&B. and '40s-'60s Gospel and Afro-latin Jazz, and Avant Garde Jazz, and Be Bop. Having only '60s Soul on my choices was quite restraining.

I remember "Win You Over". I didn't realise that the Ringleaders' "All of My Life" was discovered as early as 1982. I got both of those on tape back then. So, maybe I'm just remembering hearing those tapes over the past 30 years and I don't have that same song on record by another artist. It was so familiar. But, I remembered a recording with fuller sound than I hear on the uploaded MP3 on You Tube.

Bob, ........ I resurrected a 2009 thread on that Ringleaders' song to ask you or anyone in the know if any other Chicago artist/group sang that song, as I remember hearing it a long time ago (probably before the demo record was rediscovered). As far as I remember, I never heard the CD it was introduced on. I think I might have a Chicago record with that song on it. Do you know if anyone else sang that song. The interesting thing about that is that The Ringleaders and Caver wrote their other M-Pac cuts. So, how would that song get to another label? Anyone know who Caver was? Maybe their manager or producer?

Funny..... He doesn't have a Yiddish accent. Is he one of those "Black Jews", like the Chance/Parrot Flamingos were?

I don't think that's a coincidence. That might have been what spawned the project in the first place, rather than Wilson telling Tarnopol or someone at Brunswick that he wanted to record that type of album. I still think it would have been better for us had Tarnopol hadn't pressured Jackie to stay with Brunswick after his first contract was up. If he'd have returned to Gordy at Motown in 1960, history would have been quite different. Wilson's "schmalttzy" material from 1961-65 tossed out, and Holland/Bateman/Gorman, Smokey Robinson, HDH, Stevenson/Hunter, Fuqua/Bristol material and production together with Jackie's singing talent would have produced a lot of very memorable music. Of course, then we might have lost his work with Carl Davis (but, I'd have been willing to take that chance).

Okay then, -getting back to the lighter side,.......Please tell us non-Brits, who Brian Rae is. Thanks in advance. Four of us seem to think we are him.

I don't think I heard that CD, or got the recording of the song from the CD on a hand-made CD from a friend. So, I think I hve a recording of that song, sung by some other artist (probably on a small Chicago label-that may or may not have had a connection to The Leaner Bros. and their companies). So, that's why I'll ask Bob A. and any of you others that are knowledgeable of mid-late '60s obscure Chicago Soul records, if you know of another artist/group who sang that song.

I didn't know about that pressing or the acetate. I know that song well. I must have it by a different Chicago artist/group (but can't place it). It had a fuller sound. Was that song recorded by another One-derful/Mar-V-Lus/M-Pac artist or group? Or was it sung by an artist on a different small Chicago label?

Ha! Ha! It's really strange to hear Jackie sing "My Yiddishe Mama" ! He sounded just like a cantor in a Synagogue. On first guess, someone might think that Nat Tarnopol used the threat of his strong-armed (unsavoury) friends (you know who I mean) to make Jackie to agree to record this album. But the quality of his singing (emotion and feeling he put in), makes me think that it actually may have been his own idea (or, at least, that he wasn't opposed to it).

Being a North American, and a general Soul fan, rather than a "Northern Soul" fan, my votes are probably of less interest. But, I posted them anyway. I'm over 60, so there was no age category for me. So, I chose Brian Rae. I take it that he's the oldest Soulie known to exist. Also, the 3rd poll question is unanswerable (at least in The King's English (we had a King when I grew up). To wit: Would you say this is a BETTER site for allowing all kinds of Soul to be discussed? Better than what? Did you mean would we say this is a good sight or excellent site for discussing all kinds of Soul music? Or might you be more interested in knowing if we think there are better sites to discuss ALL types of Soul music (as this one concentrates on Northern Soul)?

If Earl English and Jack Hill did business with Detroit's Invictus, maybe Big 8 Records and Six Toe Records were located in Michigan, and the songwriter, Willie Woods, is the same Willie Woods who was a member of Jr. Walker's All Stars?

I imagine that it might be one of those early 1952 releases in the 750's. There was only one gospel record released on Checker during that time and I've never seen even a scan of it. So, it might have had a very small press run and almost no sales. But, there are plenty of candidates. Weren't some of the obscure later numbers pulled back? There are some listed in discographies that surely weren't ever pressed up.

There are several fairly rare local Detroit-area garage rock band records or guitar instrumentals that could bring good money. Maybe he has a few of those? Also, records whose recording was participated in by Motown-related personnel, usually go for more than they would on the merit of their sound alone. Maybe he has a few of those and doesn't know it? It might be worth publishing a list. Some Detroit collectors (including historians and researchers) like to run labels. They might overpay for poorly-made records that might seem unwanted by everyone, just to fill a label run.

Bloody awful that! Surprised it goes above $5 US.

There was also a Little Caesar, who was a blues artist in the 1950s, who recorded with John Dolphin's Recorded in Hollywood label. Of course, that's of little interest to many NS fans.

I bought that Yung 1001 new in 1965 (or 1966?) in South Los Angeles (Pat's Records). I've looked through literally millions of 45s since then, and remember seeing maybe one or two others of it. I don't remember ever seeing 1002. It's probably not highly demanded, and maybe not super rare. But, surely it would be hard to find when wanted. So, it probably depends upon how many people want it at the same time, as to how much can be received on auction. I don't have a good handle on current sales prices-so won't comment on that.

I'm sure you're quoting correctly. And, if you are referring to illegal sales of pressed records from illegal recordings of live concerts, that is probably true. It may also depend upon one's definition of "Rock Music". It's probably just a matter of semantics. To me, "Rock Music" includes "White" "Rock & Roll".

I was around the whole period, and Bob A. is correct about the nomenclature. i'd say that the "Rock" bootlegs (piracy and illegal live recording) started before 1969 (maybe 1967 or so?). Piracy records were sometimes made to mimic the originals (sometimes no effort to disguise them). The Doowop "repros" were the first bootlegs I can remember (starting about 1960). There may have been some illegal pressing of stolen tapes before that.

I thought that Zebra Records was owned by The Wilson brothers (Hank and Dusty). Dusty Wilson was their main artist. I never saw any reference to Dorothy Pierce or anyone from Hi-Lite, REM or Pillar Records on a Zebra Record. I thought that Zebra and Bronse Records were sister labels. By the way...I just found an old thread on Soulful Detroit Forum, in which I noted that I was told by someone in the know (perhaps Ron Murphy?) that Dorothy Pierce was an old lady whose name was used as a subterfuge for the real owner and operator of those 3 labels, but who wanted to remain anonymous. He was told dby someone at those labels that Dorothy Pierce never wrote a song, nor ran a recording session. This is only second hand "rumour". But it came from a well-respected source, who had been an insider in the business in Detroit throughout the '60s and had been around (as a teenager) during the '50s. So, I believe that it may well be true. i can't remember now for whom Pierce was supposed to have fronted. I was told this yearsago (perhaps near the end of the 1960s?).

Yes, Dorothy Pierce owned REM and Pillar Records (as sole owner, I believe). I believe she was a co-owner in Hi-Lite Records. She was the A&R person snd main producer in all 3 labels.

That's because the boot is autographed by Elaine "Duke" Browner! No wonder he needed to use a nickname!

Part III was likely a subsidiary of cap City, in any case. Their music publisher was Three Part Music (which was one of the main music publishers of Cap City Records). Cardell Eaton worked with both labels. I suspect that The Lovations' group members came from the Greater D.C./Baltimore Area.

Cap City was the bigger of the two labels, and by the time The Lovations song was out, Cap City had at least a large East Coast/Midwest distributor if not a national distributor. It would seem that the rights owners leased it to the bigger label for wider distribution.

I'd bet that Part III is the original.