Robbk

Yes, that was definitely recorded in Detroit (according to Ron Murphy). Jimmy Scott was a Detroiter, and most (but not all) of Mike Terry's work for Jo Armstead was done in Detroit (although many of Bobby Hutton's and Jo Armstead's recordings were made in Chicago).

Interesting to see that Gamma record jacket. I don't believe that is from Jo Armstead's Gamma Records (but, rather a "foreign" Gamma label (Discos Gamma?). All the stock copies I've ever seen were that same blue-green (loosely turquoise) colour (including my own copy). I've never seen the white DJ in circulation (only a scan). I've seen both the Shelley Fisher and "Fisher" credit pressing on blue-green store stock.

I heard, years ago, that the tracks for both sides were recorded in Detroit, but Green's vocals were recorded in Chicago. I've also heard that the track for "It Rained 40 Days and Nights" was recorded in Detroit, while "Girl, I Love You" was recorded in Chicago.

Yes. Mike Terry produced some of Jo Armstead's sessions in Detroit, as well as some in Chicago. He worked for others in Chicago, as well (Bridges, Knight & Eaton). Of course, he also worked in Detroit for the latter, as well.

I probably looked through over a few million 45s in my time, and I never saw a Justin record on Musicor or Dynamo. I've seen many copies of the store-stock green Down East. Port was owned by Jerry Blaine's son (thus the re-issues of the Whirlin' Disc label output).

There is a current JMC Records, which is a Reggae label. I'm sure there's no connection to the Detroit '70s/'80s label.

That isn't always the case, as sometimes labels shut down for some years and then re-activate years later. Joe Von Battle did that with his JVB Records, King Records did that with their Queen Records label, Ernest Kelly did that with his Geneva Records.

The Four Sonics' was early '70s, as I bought mine then. I wasn't buying any records in the '80s:

If you mean the 1970's-80s label, here is a discography I found: JMC 140 Darnell Jackson & Band Love, Peace and Happiness/I 1973? JMC 141 Four Sonics, The If It Wasn't For My Baby (7") 1973? JMC 111 Smoke Screen (3) I'm So Inspired / Give It Up mid 1970's ? JMC 113 Mack & Nina Reunited/I Mid 1970's ? JMC 113 Mack Brown Mystery Mistress (7") 1987 (re-issue?) JMC 194 Smoke Screen (3) Give It Up (12") 1984 (re-issue?) JMC 194-A Smoke Screen Give It Up (12", Max) 1984 (re-issue?)

Another Motown coincidence, almost, but not quite as unlikely, as two different Frank Wilsons writing songs and recording for Motown during nearly the same time. No wonder the record keepers were confused. Two Omas working for the same American company at the same time. Who'd believe it? I'm Dutch and American (and Canadian), and I've never heard of two women in their twenties having Oma for an official first name.

Yes, at least in the northern and northwestern parts of Germany, where they speak Plattdeutsch, Angelsk, and Friesian. But, I find it funny that people would name their little infant baby girl "Grandma". Maybe a few young girls might get the nickname, "kleine Oma", or Little Grandma. But, I find it hard to believe that a parent would name a female infant, "Grandma". I'm Dutch, and I've never heard of a woman in her twenties using the first name of Oma (maybe a nickname for a young girl who acts like a grandmother-but not a "given, Christian name).

I got that vinyl "Humphry Stomp" in Chicagoland. So, I suspect that it was pressed in The Midwest. We had a lot of our Scepter-Wand issues on vinyl. It bears the normal Scepter-Wand press number: 50620 and 50621, but, it also has 240 on the A side, and 243 on the B side ("Can You Forgive Me). Could those small numbers be the actual pressing plant job numbers? They seem much too small to be pressing job numbers (perhaps just a pressing code number?).

I DID see a yellow label on Garrison-my "Humphry Stomp". It doesn't say "Disc Jockey issue" or "Not For Sale", but it DOES have stars on the implied "Hit Side". So, despite having the yellow label, was that a DJ issue or a store stock?

Oma Heard (Oma Drake) was from L.A., and had been originally a background singer for Hal Davis's and Marc Gordon's L.A. Jobete Music office for recording demos as guides for Motown's Detroit artists, and for recording Jobete Music song ownership acetates. She was erroneously "assumed" to be arranger Billy Page's wife (and, thus "given" the name Page. She was being confused with Billy's wife, who also had the unusual first name. Oma. She had a couple of singles released as a single artist on small L.A. labels, and was also in an L.A. Girls group (I forget the group's name), and was also a member of Dorothy (Berry), Oma and Zelpha on Chisa Records (distributed by Motown-but not really connected with Motown production).

I've never seen anything but the DJ copies. I can't remember seeing a Garrison stock record of ANY of their issues. I've seen about 5-6 different records on the label, and they were ALL white DJs. I have some faint memory of seeing an actual store stocker of one of them (NOT The Honeybees). It was solid yellow. Is that right, or was it just a dream?

Apparently, Flomar got a piece of the publishing as pay for Scepter-Wand's distributing of the Garrison record. Wasn't Johnny Terry the conduit that connected all those Detroit productions to New York labels for release? That's the way I understood that situation. Terry was listed as the producer or co-producer on the Empire, Velvet Sound, Garrison, Barracuda and Jack Montgomery Scepter and Revue records. I read quotes from some of the artists saying that Johnny Terry didn't REALLY "produce" (didn't run recording sessions), he was just the conduit through which Detroit productions by Don Mancha and Bob Hamilton, and one or two others got released on New York labels. Mancha had probably met Terry in New York, when he worked there during the early Mid '60s (Drum Records release, etc.). Does anyone know if there was really a Don Montgomery? Maybe "Don Montgomery" stands for a partnership between Don Mancha and Jack Montgomery (Marvin Jones)? Both of them were the major writers for Travler Music.

I have his Expo record. I also seem to remember seeing a Bobby Jones record on one of The CJ-distributed labels (Capri?). He also had a release on USA Records -"Check Me Out"/"Beware A Stranger". And didn't he have another record on which he was backed by The Paramonts on another CJ-distributed label (Olé)?

Nothing wrong with getting old. It sure beats the alternative. What COULD be lousy about getting old, would be being old and still being an ignorant fool (as, sad to say, happens to more than a few of us humans).

That's very true. Nevertheless, I don't see Mancha or Bridges/Knight/Eaton using The Andantes great talent for such a great opportunity to make a hit, and then just leasing it to a miniscule New York label. The potential record sales revenues are split among them, and Garris AND Scepter-Wand (for distribution), and IF decent sales DO materialise, there is no group to sing in clubs, go on tour, etc. I just don't believe that was what happened. Maybe it would have been smart to have The Andantes record really well-made recordings with The Funk Brothers, and then use another ensemble of good non-Motown Detroit singers as the group that has interface with the public (Adorables or Debonairs or..... etc.). But I don't think that's what happened in this case. I think I've heard this Honey Bees' lead singer's voice before, but I don't recognise it as one of The Andantes.

I hear Joe Hunter's regular crew of well-known Detroit session players on this one. I'm sure that, at least the instrumental tracks were recorded in Detroit. Celtex-related labels did a fair amount of that. I wonder if Jones also recorded his vocals there, or in Chicago?

Nor me. I have a hard time believing that The Andantes would have recorded a couple of songs as the "feature group", under a false name, while under contract to Motown in 1966 or 1967. What would be the attraction? A one-time small fee? They couldn't tour, or appear in Detroit venues under that name. Almost NO artists received royalties during those years. None of Don Juan Mancha, Bridges, Knight & Eaton were making BIG money for the artists who recorded for them. I suspect that this group was NOT The Andantes. They don't sound like The Andantes, to me.

The Candace Love also sounds like a Detroit background track (Bridges/Knight/Eaton may have had that recorded in Detroit), but, I think it's not the same as The Honey Bees' track on Garrison.

Thanks for clearing that up, Rob. There have been rumours for years about exactly what happened when, and people writing articles stating so-called "facts" that turn out to be inaccurate or downright false. I also read that "You Showed Me How to be Happy" was recorded using The Funk Brothers and The Andantes,

Yes, 127000 should be 1967. The Marvells being from Miami doesn't automatically mean Butane was located in Miami. I have other Butane records that have New York connections. Angie seemed to pick up a Butane record or two, and was, in turn, distributed by Mercury, out of New York. I think I've seen a couple more Corwin-Moers co-written songs on NY labels. Whereas Moers and Cohen are the credits on Detroit labels. I don't remember Corwin co-writing with Moers on a Detroit record. But, no, I have no real evidence that Cohen and Corwin were the same person, other than conjecture, due to the fact that Roy Cohen was known to have written that song, and Corwin's first name also was Roy, and both (people) were listed as co-writers with Moers on the same song. But, I can tell you that there was a plethora of Jews changing their Jewish-sounding names to anglified names in USA and Canada starting around 1960 or so (several in my own family (I am disgusted to admit). MOST of that type of activity occurred throughout the 1960s and died out afterwards. It is interesting that so many of the R&B label owners were Jewish, and so many of the record distributors were, as well. Also, a large portion of the "White" business owners in The Black Ghettos were Jewish (which is why I ended up loving Black-American music (I grew up surrounded by it).

The original writers, Roy Cohen and Tom Moers were Detroit-based songwriters and Moers was a producer. They worked for Sammy Kaplan, whose family owned a record distributorship in Detroit, as well as Danceland Records. Tom Moers was the A&R man and chief producer of the 1960-65 operation of Danceland Records. The first operating period of Danceland Records was 1948-51, owned and operated by Sammy and Ed Kaplan's father, Morris Kaplan. Morris had started the distributorship. Roy Cohen apparently changed his name to Corwin, or used it sometimes, as a "pen name". Ed Kaplan owned MSK, Kool Kat and Village Records, thus, the use of the Kaplan's family music publisher name, Lovelane Music on the Village record, and the adding of Ed Kaplan to the song's list of writers (payment for Kaplan pressing up the record for Moers' group). Ed Kaplan's MSK (Moers/Someone starting with "S"/Kaplan) Records also distributed Detroit's Marquee Records (and Kaplan probably was a part owner in that label, and Kaplan also placed a couple productions on Dearborn Records (a company owned by their family's record and jukebox distributorship). I've always thought that The Chevelles were a New York ( or, at least. an East Coast) group, and their record label, Butane Records, was an East Coast label. I guess that Moers' and Cohen (Corwin) may have produced a session on an East Coast girls' group in New York, and that group was NOT the same group as the Detroit-based Seashells, who clearly were recorded in Detroit, with Mike Terry arranging. The Butane cuts sound like East Coast (probably New York), and the Chevells sound VERY different from The Seashells. The Seashells sounds like late 1965. The Chevells sounds like 1964. Moers had connections to New York. He got some of the '60s Danceland records picked up by New York's Roulette Records for national distribution. So, while he was in New York, dealing with Roulette, he may have done a little recording, using local groups as an outlet for his and Cohen's songs. In addition, New York writer, J.B. Willingham, wrote some other songs that were used on other artists with Butane records, and he had also co-written a couple songs used by Detroit artist on Danceland Records in the early '60s. One of them was a mild "hit" chart record, "Tonight Is Just Another Night" by The Martiniques from 1963. So, Moers and Cohen had New York connections throughout the early '60s/