Robbk

I don't think that's a coincidence. That might have been what spawned the project in the first place, rather than Wilson telling Tarnopol or someone at Brunswick that he wanted to record that type of album. I still think it would have been better for us had Tarnopol hadn't pressured Jackie to stay with Brunswick after his first contract was up. If he'd have returned to Gordy at Motown in 1960, history would have been quite different. Wilson's "schmalttzy" material from 1961-65 tossed out, and Holland/Bateman/Gorman, Smokey Robinson, HDH, Stevenson/Hunter, Fuqua/Bristol material and production together with Jackie's singing talent would have produced a lot of very memorable music. Of course, then we might have lost his work with Carl Davis (but, I'd have been willing to take that chance).

Okay then, -getting back to the lighter side,.......Please tell us non-Brits, who Brian Rae is. Thanks in advance. Four of us seem to think we are him.

I don't think I heard that CD, or got the recording of the song from the CD on a hand-made CD from a friend. So, I think I hve a recording of that song, sung by some other artist (probably on a small Chicago label-that may or may not have had a connection to The Leaner Bros. and their companies). So, that's why I'll ask Bob A. and any of you others that are knowledgeable of mid-late '60s obscure Chicago Soul records, if you know of another artist/group who sang that song.

I didn't know about that pressing or the acetate. I know that song well. I must have it by a different Chicago artist/group (but can't place it). It had a fuller sound. Was that song recorded by another One-derful/Mar-V-Lus/M-Pac artist or group? Or was it sung by an artist on a different small Chicago label?

Ha! Ha! It's really strange to hear Jackie sing "My Yiddishe Mama" ! He sounded just like a cantor in a Synagogue. On first guess, someone might think that Nat Tarnopol used the threat of his strong-armed (unsavoury) friends (you know who I mean) to make Jackie to agree to record this album. But the quality of his singing (emotion and feeling he put in), makes me think that it actually may have been his own idea (or, at least, that he wasn't opposed to it).

Being a North American, and a general Soul fan, rather than a "Northern Soul" fan, my votes are probably of less interest. But, I posted them anyway. I'm over 60, so there was no age category for me. So, I chose Brian Rae. I take it that he's the oldest Soulie known to exist. Also, the 3rd poll question is unanswerable (at least in The King's English (we had a King when I grew up). To wit: Would you say this is a BETTER site for allowing all kinds of Soul to be discussed? Better than what? Did you mean would we say this is a good sight or excellent site for discussing all kinds of Soul music? Or might you be more interested in knowing if we think there are better sites to discuss ALL types of Soul music (as this one concentrates on Northern Soul)?

If Earl English and Jack Hill did business with Detroit's Invictus, maybe Big 8 Records and Six Toe Records were located in Michigan, and the songwriter, Willie Woods, is the same Willie Woods who was a member of Jr. Walker's All Stars?

I imagine that it might be one of those early 1952 releases in the 750's. There was only one gospel record released on Checker during that time and I've never seen even a scan of it. So, it might have had a very small press run and almost no sales. But, there are plenty of candidates. Weren't some of the obscure later numbers pulled back? There are some listed in discographies that surely weren't ever pressed up.

There are several fairly rare local Detroit-area garage rock band records or guitar instrumentals that could bring good money. Maybe he has a few of those? Also, records whose recording was participated in by Motown-related personnel, usually go for more than they would on the merit of their sound alone. Maybe he has a few of those and doesn't know it? It might be worth publishing a list. Some Detroit collectors (including historians and researchers) like to run labels. They might overpay for poorly-made records that might seem unwanted by everyone, just to fill a label run.

Bloody awful that! Surprised it goes above $5 US.

There was also a Little Caesar, who was a blues artist in the 1950s, who recorded with John Dolphin's Recorded in Hollywood label. Of course, that's of little interest to many NS fans.

I bought that Yung 1001 new in 1965 (or 1966?) in South Los Angeles (Pat's Records). I've looked through literally millions of 45s since then, and remember seeing maybe one or two others of it. I don't remember ever seeing 1002. It's probably not highly demanded, and maybe not super rare. But, surely it would be hard to find when wanted. So, it probably depends upon how many people want it at the same time, as to how much can be received on auction. I don't have a good handle on current sales prices-so won't comment on that.

I'm sure you're quoting correctly. And, if you are referring to illegal sales of pressed records from illegal recordings of live concerts, that is probably true. It may also depend upon one's definition of "Rock Music". It's probably just a matter of semantics. To me, "Rock Music" includes "White" "Rock & Roll".

I was around the whole period, and Bob A. is correct about the nomenclature. i'd say that the "Rock" bootlegs (piracy and illegal live recording) started before 1969 (maybe 1967 or so?). Piracy records were sometimes made to mimic the originals (sometimes no effort to disguise them). The Doowop "repros" were the first bootlegs I can remember (starting about 1960). There may have been some illegal pressing of stolen tapes before that.

I thought that Zebra Records was owned by The Wilson brothers (Hank and Dusty). Dusty Wilson was their main artist. I never saw any reference to Dorothy Pierce or anyone from Hi-Lite, REM or Pillar Records on a Zebra Record. I thought that Zebra and Bronse Records were sister labels. By the way...I just found an old thread on Soulful Detroit Forum, in which I noted that I was told by someone in the know (perhaps Ron Murphy?) that Dorothy Pierce was an old lady whose name was used as a subterfuge for the real owner and operator of those 3 labels, but who wanted to remain anonymous. He was told dby someone at those labels that Dorothy Pierce never wrote a song, nor ran a recording session. This is only second hand "rumour". But it came from a well-respected source, who had been an insider in the business in Detroit throughout the '60s and had been around (as a teenager) during the '50s. So, I believe that it may well be true. i can't remember now for whom Pierce was supposed to have fronted. I was told this yearsago (perhaps near the end of the 1960s?).

Yes, Dorothy Pierce owned REM and Pillar Records (as sole owner, I believe). I believe she was a co-owner in Hi-Lite Records. She was the A&R person snd main producer in all 3 labels.

That's because the boot is autographed by Elaine "Duke" Browner! No wonder he needed to use a nickname!

Part III was likely a subsidiary of cap City, in any case. Their music publisher was Three Part Music (which was one of the main music publishers of Cap City Records). Cardell Eaton worked with both labels. I suspect that The Lovations' group members came from the Greater D.C./Baltimore Area.

Cap City was the bigger of the two labels, and by the time The Lovations song was out, Cap City had at least a large East Coast/Midwest distributor if not a national distributor. It would seem that the rights owners leased it to the bigger label for wider distribution.

I'd bet that Part III is the original.

It looks original to me. There were scads of them still around during the 1980s. It shouldn't be uncommon even by now. I can't imagine anyone having booted it.

With Pavlik (Johnny Powers) as co-writer, I suspect that it WAS written in the late 1960s, while Valvano was still in Detroit. Based on the story of Berry Gordy sending Valvano to Albuquerque in 1972, and mike meeting his future wife, marrying her, and remaining there, it seems that Valvano wanted to record DeLorenzo, and needed material. So he used an old song from the late '60s that he and Powers had written. But the recording must have been made in 1973 in Albuquerque. I don't hear any of the usual Detroit session players or Detroit studios in the record's sound.

Ralph is Ralph Terrana (ex-Motown sound engineer, and owner of Terra Shirma Studio. Harry Balk was also owner of Impact and Inferno Records.

It had a really simple background. I don't hear any Detroit session players in it. But, if it was recorded in Albuquerque in 1973, it should sound more "modern". My guess it was recorded in Albuquerque in 1973, but that Mike tried very hard to make it have the late '60s sound (so no keyboard and not a lot of different tracks). It was published by ASCAP. If it would have been written in 1967, I'd bet it would have been published by a BMI publisher. If Valvano would have recorded that in Detroit in 1967, the BGs would have sounded more like his projects like "My World Is On Fire", and would have been recorded at Terra Shirma or United Sound, with Mike Terry arranging, and recognisable session players heard on it. Instead, it sounds like it was recorded in a garage, with high schoolers playing. The singer's voice is pretty decent. Whether he is of African-American descent, or just Italian, he sounded reasonably soulful. It's a formulaic, and thus, uninteresting song (as songwriting goes), but not all that bad.

Micky Gentile, Jennie Lee Lambert, and most importantly, arranger, George Andrews, worked out of New York. The Three Degrees were from Philadelphia, and lived there, and recorded there early in their careers. I'm not so well versed on the end of the '60s and the '70s as I am on the '50s and early and mid '60s, but I haven't heard of The Three Degrees doing background recording for other artists in NYC. Do you know for a fact that they did so? I would guess that local New York Area singers were used, as George Andrews worked out of NYC. I do know that Philly is rather close, and many artists commuted back and forth between the two cities. But the BG singers on this song are not so very distinctive that I can pinpoint them as The Three Degrees.