Robbk

Bloody awful that! Surprised it goes above $5 US.

There was also a Little Caesar, who was a blues artist in the 1950s, who recorded with John Dolphin's Recorded in Hollywood label. Of course, that's of little interest to many NS fans.

I bought that Yung 1001 new in 1965 (or 1966?) in South Los Angeles (Pat's Records). I've looked through literally millions of 45s since then, and remember seeing maybe one or two others of it. I don't remember ever seeing 1002. It's probably not highly demanded, and maybe not super rare. But, surely it would be hard to find when wanted. So, it probably depends upon how many people want it at the same time, as to how much can be received on auction. I don't have a good handle on current sales prices-so won't comment on that.

I'm sure you're quoting correctly. And, if you are referring to illegal sales of pressed records from illegal recordings of live concerts, that is probably true. It may also depend upon one's definition of "Rock Music". It's probably just a matter of semantics. To me, "Rock Music" includes "White" "Rock & Roll".

I was around the whole period, and Bob A. is correct about the nomenclature. i'd say that the "Rock" bootlegs (piracy and illegal live recording) started before 1969 (maybe 1967 or so?). Piracy records were sometimes made to mimic the originals (sometimes no effort to disguise them). The Doowop "repros" were the first bootlegs I can remember (starting about 1960). There may have been some illegal pressing of stolen tapes before that.

I thought that Zebra Records was owned by The Wilson brothers (Hank and Dusty). Dusty Wilson was their main artist. I never saw any reference to Dorothy Pierce or anyone from Hi-Lite, REM or Pillar Records on a Zebra Record. I thought that Zebra and Bronse Records were sister labels. By the way...I just found an old thread on Soulful Detroit Forum, in which I noted that I was told by someone in the know (perhaps Ron Murphy?) that Dorothy Pierce was an old lady whose name was used as a subterfuge for the real owner and operator of those 3 labels, but who wanted to remain anonymous. He was told dby someone at those labels that Dorothy Pierce never wrote a song, nor ran a recording session. This is only second hand "rumour". But it came from a well-respected source, who had been an insider in the business in Detroit throughout the '60s and had been around (as a teenager) during the '50s. So, I believe that it may well be true. i can't remember now for whom Pierce was supposed to have fronted. I was told this yearsago (perhaps near the end of the 1960s?).

Yes, Dorothy Pierce owned REM and Pillar Records (as sole owner, I believe). I believe she was a co-owner in Hi-Lite Records. She was the A&R person snd main producer in all 3 labels.

That's because the boot is autographed by Elaine "Duke" Browner! No wonder he needed to use a nickname!

Part III was likely a subsidiary of cap City, in any case. Their music publisher was Three Part Music (which was one of the main music publishers of Cap City Records). Cardell Eaton worked with both labels. I suspect that The Lovations' group members came from the Greater D.C./Baltimore Area.

Cap City was the bigger of the two labels, and by the time The Lovations song was out, Cap City had at least a large East Coast/Midwest distributor if not a national distributor. It would seem that the rights owners leased it to the bigger label for wider distribution.

I'd bet that Part III is the original.

It looks original to me. There were scads of them still around during the 1980s. It shouldn't be uncommon even by now. I can't imagine anyone having booted it.

With Pavlik (Johnny Powers) as co-writer, I suspect that it WAS written in the late 1960s, while Valvano was still in Detroit. Based on the story of Berry Gordy sending Valvano to Albuquerque in 1972, and mike meeting his future wife, marrying her, and remaining there, it seems that Valvano wanted to record DeLorenzo, and needed material. So he used an old song from the late '60s that he and Powers had written. But the recording must have been made in 1973 in Albuquerque. I don't hear any of the usual Detroit session players or Detroit studios in the record's sound.

Ralph is Ralph Terrana (ex-Motown sound engineer, and owner of Terra Shirma Studio. Harry Balk was also owner of Impact and Inferno Records.

It had a really simple background. I don't hear any Detroit session players in it. But, if it was recorded in Albuquerque in 1973, it should sound more "modern". My guess it was recorded in Albuquerque in 1973, but that Mike tried very hard to make it have the late '60s sound (so no keyboard and not a lot of different tracks). It was published by ASCAP. If it would have been written in 1967, I'd bet it would have been published by a BMI publisher. If Valvano would have recorded that in Detroit in 1967, the BGs would have sounded more like his projects like "My World Is On Fire", and would have been recorded at Terra Shirma or United Sound, with Mike Terry arranging, and recognisable session players heard on it. Instead, it sounds like it was recorded in a garage, with high schoolers playing. The singer's voice is pretty decent. Whether he is of African-American descent, or just Italian, he sounded reasonably soulful. It's a formulaic, and thus, uninteresting song (as songwriting goes), but not all that bad.

Micky Gentile, Jennie Lee Lambert, and most importantly, arranger, George Andrews, worked out of New York. The Three Degrees were from Philadelphia, and lived there, and recorded there early in their careers. I'm not so well versed on the end of the '60s and the '70s as I am on the '50s and early and mid '60s, but I haven't heard of The Three Degrees doing background recording for other artists in NYC. Do you know for a fact that they did so? I would guess that local New York Area singers were used, as George Andrews worked out of NYC. I do know that Philly is rather close, and many artists commuted back and forth between the two cities. But the BG singers on this song are not so very distinctive that I can pinpoint them as The Three Degrees.

Yes, that was definitely recorded in Detroit (according to Ron Murphy). Jimmy Scott was a Detroiter, and most (but not all) of Mike Terry's work for Jo Armstead was done in Detroit (although many of Bobby Hutton's and Jo Armstead's recordings were made in Chicago).

Interesting to see that Gamma record jacket. I don't believe that is from Jo Armstead's Gamma Records (but, rather a "foreign" Gamma label (Discos Gamma?). All the stock copies I've ever seen were that same blue-green (loosely turquoise) colour (including my own copy). I've never seen the white DJ in circulation (only a scan). I've seen both the Shelley Fisher and "Fisher" credit pressing on blue-green store stock.

I heard, years ago, that the tracks for both sides were recorded in Detroit, but Green's vocals were recorded in Chicago. I've also heard that the track for "It Rained 40 Days and Nights" was recorded in Detroit, while "Girl, I Love You" was recorded in Chicago.

Yes. Mike Terry produced some of Jo Armstead's sessions in Detroit, as well as some in Chicago. He worked for others in Chicago, as well (Bridges, Knight & Eaton). Of course, he also worked in Detroit for the latter, as well.

I probably looked through over a few million 45s in my time, and I never saw a Justin record on Musicor or Dynamo. I've seen many copies of the store-stock green Down East. Port was owned by Jerry Blaine's son (thus the re-issues of the Whirlin' Disc label output).

There is a current JMC Records, which is a Reggae label. I'm sure there's no connection to the Detroit '70s/'80s label.

That isn't always the case, as sometimes labels shut down for some years and then re-activate years later. Joe Von Battle did that with his JVB Records, King Records did that with their Queen Records label, Ernest Kelly did that with his Geneva Records.

The Four Sonics' was early '70s, as I bought mine then. I wasn't buying any records in the '80s:

If you mean the 1970's-80s label, here is a discography I found: JMC 140 Darnell Jackson & Band Love, Peace and Happiness/I 1973? JMC 141 Four Sonics, The If It Wasn't For My Baby (7") 1973? JMC 111 Smoke Screen (3) I'm So Inspired / Give It Up mid 1970's ? JMC 113 Mack & Nina Reunited/I Mid 1970's ? JMC 113 Mack Brown Mystery Mistress (7") 1987 (re-issue?) JMC 194 Smoke Screen (3) Give It Up (12") 1984 (re-issue?) JMC 194-A Smoke Screen Give It Up (12", Max) 1984 (re-issue?)