Robbk

Great article, Rob. Nice, thorough job. Unusual that I didn't learn anything I hadn't known before from other sources, other than the fact that Mancha was his real family name, and that his family had Spanish roots. Nice to know, however, that what I did think was true is confirmed. Normally, I find that some of the long-time rumours going round were only conjecture.

Duplicate post

The publishing on both of Margaret's cuts on GeneBro was owned by Popcorn Wylie's self-owned Ala King Music. But, again, I don't think they made any money "selling" the Stardust pressings (I'd guess that any sales that occurred went to cover the pressing costs, and as so many were given away, no profits were made). So, any inquiry as to any money due Popcorn's heirs or Ms. little, would be from sales or use of the 2 songs in some other form/format. On that same subject, there were likely NO commercial sales of the original GeneBro release. Even if there were, I doubt that they'd have been enough to cover recording studio time fees and pressing costs. So Ms. Little would likely be due naught from Gene Bro,,,,, and the same from Detroit Stars.

Andy Rix, who wrote what he learned from a telephone call with Ms. Little in a thread on this forum from 2010, said he was hoping to talk to her again, to get more information about her career and this production. I'm guessing that he never did talk to her again. Otherwise, we would know what he learned (ostensibly from his adding it to the 2010 thread). But, I hope he sees the additions to these 2 threads, and comments on that subject.

According to Ron, those 45s pressed up on Soul King and Stardust were basically to get the music to some few people who'd appreciate the music. Ron said he gave more than half of them away. He gave me two of each (one set to give to a collector friend of mine). He gave away copies to several others of his friends and some collector friends. He didn't really plan to make money on them, and I'm sure that he didn't make money on them. If I remember correctly, he told me he paid the rights holders small fees for the rights to press them up (I'm guessing a few hundred Dollars each). I'm also guessing that he either paid Gene Bro,,,,,? a fee, or couldn't find someone to pay for that production's rights. Wouldn't the artist, Margaret Little, only be due a percentage of sales revenue AFTER production costs are taken out? If so, as they really made no profit, she would have been due nothing, in any case. He told me he pressed up very few (I would guess 300, AT MOST, but possibly only 200 or maybe, 100), and did NOT market them to the Northern Soul scene. I'm guessing that those copies that got to UK came directly or indirectly from people who got them from Ron.

Yes, but "Bro" was probably only his nickname. As I remember it from a discussion we had on Soulful Detroit Forum, with Ron Murphy and other long-time Detroit music collectors and people in the music business, Bro's last name started with the letters "B-R-O....., but the real family had had other letters after those. I remember reading the name, but don't remember what it was. Unfortunately, that thread was lost during the reorganisation/reconfiguration of the SDF website.

As stated in the 2010 thread, it was definitely produced and recorded in Detroit(in 1967, I believe), by Popcorn Wylie. The "Gene" involved (Margaret's "discoverer" and manager) was said to be a barbershop owner on The West Side of Detroit. On the thread, he was said to have been named "Gene Bro". That doesn't sound right to me. We had a discussion on SDF in which Ron Murphy (who also had worked with Wylie) had mentioned his actual full last name (it started with Bro...and included more letters). He went by Gene "Bro" as a nickname. But, I can't remember the complete name; and the thread was lost during the Soulful Detroit Forum's website's reorganisation/reformatting effort. The label owner, "Gene", in question, was DEFINITELY NOT Gene Redd Jr., as suggested by some posters. Redd never really resided full-time in Detroit, although, he operated his Golden World-distributed Stephanye Records partly in Detroit in 1966. But he recorded only New York artists he had worked with in New York, and spent little time in Detroit, where he could "discover" young Detroit talent he'd want to record. The other thread also mentioned (from an interview with Ms. Little (margaret Little was her real birth name)), that she was given the recording studio time in recompense for a debt owed.

I think that a box was found (late in the game). Before the '80s, I had only seen a couple beat up copies in the hands of US collectors. I never found one for myself in many trips to Detroit in the mid '60s.

Ron Murphy told me that his Detroit Stars and Soul King Records were legitimate re-issues, with original rights owners being paid fees for use of their products. Ron and Popcorn still had contact with those people. I knew Ron (for over 40 years) to be an upstanding man of his word. I'm sure those were not bootlegged.

Very interesting. I always wondered about Preview Records. I listened to scores of their records and didn't like any. I don't really like The Terri North on You-Tube. But I couldn't find the Bonnie Graham. I'm really curious about that one. Can anyone upload a sound file of the latter, or post a link to it?

The last variation is very interesting. At first, I thought it might be a bootleg, wherein the perpetrator got hold of blank Checker labels from the very end of Chess' run, when they were bought out by All Platinum, and he just had his pressing plant use an available font. But that font seems to be one that All Platinum used on their own records in the early /70s. So, it might be a legitimate re-issue by All Platinum from the early '70s pressed in one of the East Coast plants they used, On the other hand, I'm questioning why this, particular, poor-selling Gospel record would have been chosen for re-issue by a company who paid a lot of money to purchase a catalogue with a lot of classic R&B/Blues/Jazz/Soul titles they DIDN'T re-release. It could be that a bootlegger somehow got hold of blank Checker labels from the All-Platinum period, and not having access to original Checker fonts, chose the available font closest to one of All Platinum's used fonts, to feign legitimacy of use of the available blank labels. For me, this is a 50/50 possibility of legitimate vs. boot, as I have looked through millions of 45s between 1965 and 1990 , and never seen that font used on a Checker record.

Of course! The same female Dale Brooks who recorded "Am I Glad Now" for Twirl Records! But, she COULDN'T have been the same woman who led on the recording we heard off the demo record. Her voice is way too "Caucasian" and "Pop"-sounding. It is interesting that the song on the Dolphin release is spelt the same as I remember it, and it was a Brill Building song by Gregory Carroll. I'd bet that that was the very same song we hear on the demo, but a much earlier recording (1963 or 1964), while the recording we heard is from 1965 or 1966, and is by a Black Girls group (also from New York-and possibly generated by Carroll trying to release it again, 1 to 3 years later, by different artists). The recording I remember was NOT Dale Brooks' voice, but rather, a Black girls group, sounding similar to (if not exactly the same as) the recording on the demo.

That recording of "Ring-A-Leevio" CAN'T have been recorded before 1965, based on its sound. So, it COULDN'T have been the Jannis Martin/3 Jays' version, nor could it be the Dale Brooks version (male vocalist). The version I remember from the radio was the same song as we heard off the demo, and if not the same exact recording, it was a similarly-styled recording, by a girls Soul group from a similar era (1965-67) (e.g. differing no more from the recording on the demo than Candy & Kisses' version from that of The Apollas).

It was a 100% L.A. production, with no Detroit people involved (other than the songwriters (who wrote it while with Motown). It's just a case of an artist or producer wanting to sing (or his singer to sing) a particular Motown song. it should NOT be in a Detroit collection, any more than The Rolling Stones' (bloody awful) version of "My Girl", or The Beatles' version of "Please Mr. Postman, and no more than The Marvelettes' version of "That's How Heartaches are Made" is a New York record.

The group singing "Ring-A-Leevio" is clearly not The Apollas. I remember hearing the song "Ring-A-Leevio" on the radio during my travels (maybe to The East Coast). I grew up in Winnipeg and Chicago, and I knew that game. It wasn't played just in New York. And anyone who watched American films from the 1930s through 1950s would know about that game. I'm sure it was played from Washington, DC through Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York, Connecticut and Boston. It was probably played in Pittsburgh, Buffalo, the Ohio cities and Detroit, as well. I'd bet that girls group song, "Ring-A-Leevio" was released. It may not have been a hit, but probably sold some. It surely sounds very familiar.

I remember it getting a little play on WVON. I certainly wasn't a "hit". I saw many boxes of it at United Record Distributors (owned by The Leaner Bros, (as was One-Derful/Mar-V-Lus/M-Pac Records) as late as the beginning of the 1970s.

GC's ParIliaments started in 1958. So, clearly, no court would award the name rights to the LATER West Virginia group. If Clinton lost the rights to The name "The Parliaments" to Revilot Records (LeBaron Taylor?), then, he must have sold them off, or somehow broken his contract. What happened, exactly?

I know that according to some Detroiters from back in the day, Don Mancha had the nickname "Don Juan" Mancha because he was good with the ladies (had a LOT of girlfriends). I also knew that Clyde Wilson took the stage name and pen name of "Steve Mancha". It's also interesting that while with Harvey Fuqua'sand Gwen Gordy Fuqua's Harvey/Tri Phi Records, as a recording artist (The Two Friends-HPC 1001) and as a writer, and also while at Motown, he used his own name of Clyde Wilson. I never heard the story of why he picked "Steve Mancha". How and why did Don Mancha give his surname to Wilson? If I'm not mistaken, "Mancha" wasn't Don Mancha's actual birth family name-it was also a career stage/pen name.

I find Issac's story very disconcerting, if true, as I am pretty sure that George Clinton's group, started in early 1958, were using that name first. When did the West Virginia group start?

They were re-issues from the early '60s (1962-63?). For a while they listed "Golden Oldies Series" on the records, but also had a fair amount on normal current labels with only the different colour (gold, rather than blue).

Here's a link to both APT sides:

Here's a link to "Lonely Island": Here's the label scan:

George Clinton's Parliaments recorded two 45s during the late Doo Wop era. One was "Poor Willie" on APT Records from 1958. The second was on a small New York label, Flipp Records (100) "Lonely Island"/"You Make Me Wanna Cry", and was a Doo Wop ballad, recorded and released in 1959.

Cabell was in WEST Virginia (US Midwest). Virginia is in USA-South. They are VERY different in population and culture (more different than the differences between Yorkshire and East Anglia-I'd wager.

Thelma Brown recorded 3 cuts in September 1963: "Cookie Boy", "Dance Yeah Dance", and "Dear Parents". She was recorded by Harvey Fuqua and Gwen Gordy. They were all cut at Hitsville. These were among Harvey and Gwen's first Motown productions just after their Harvey/Tri-Phi labels were amalgamated into Motown Records. "Dear Parents" vocal was recorded at Detroit's Grand Ballroom, and background tracks were added at Hitsville (according to the "Don't Forget The Motor City" listings).