Robbk

Interesting that this Jobete song was placed on Gene Redd's label. I guess because Handy was a George Clinton artist, but Clinton farmed this one to Redd's Stephanye Records (both Clinton and Redd joined Ed Wingate's Golden World after Berry Gordy shut down Jobete Music's New York office in mid/late 1964. Clearly Clinton just wanted to use one of the songs he had sold to Motown (which they hadn't used for release-and per his contract, he could use in an independent outside production (as he had on Handy's and Tamala Lewis' Marton releases)). Interesting that he had Jobete spelt: "Jobette", as Anna Records had done, and a few Tamla misprints had, as well. I wonder if that misspelling was a sneaky way of not cheating, but hiding his action from Berry Gordy? It is also interesting that One of The Holland's and Lamont Dozier also got credit as writers (could that be because the lyrics mention songs written by them?-so that he couldn't be accused of trying to benefit from their success? I seriously doubt that Clinton was sitting together with them at 2648 Grand Blvd. in Detroit. I have no doubt he wrote the song with Handy in mind (as its singer) in 1964, in Jobete's New York office. Although I doubt that there was ever a chance that Handy would have been given a Motown singing artist's contract and recorded in Detroit, Clinton had hoped the song would have been recorded by Motown and become a hit. When that didn't happen, he still thought he could do a good job on it with Handy. It probably ended up on Redd's Stephanye Records, because Wingate didn't want to record Handy and release the record on Golden World (with whom Clinton was working under contract). So, as Clinton's buddy and ex Jobete-NY colleague was also working right there in Wingate's building, and had full control of what was released on his own label, -it ended up coming out on Stephanye.

There were other threads which contained discussions of Johnnie Mae Matthews, Terra Shirma, Ernie Stratton, Fred Saxon, Bob Schwartz, etc. with great information provided by Ron Murphy, Graham, Ralph Terrana, and even Clay MacMurray and others that, unfortunately, were lost, in that forum's format changeover in 2009. I believe that Ron Murphy identified the owner of Enterprise Records and we talked about many of the artists. But, I don't believe that members of The Wonderettes were identified, other than that Rose Saint john sang lead, and it wwas stated that they were a local group which had appeared in local clubs and youth sock hops, and several of our older Detroit members remember having seen adverts for them, and, I think one had seen them. I think he mentioned that there were four girls in the group.

I think that Rose Saint John was the lead singer of The Wonderettes. I believe that they were managed by Bob Schwartz, who was their executive producer, and owner of Ruby Records, and possibly, co-owner of Enterprise Records. Their regular songwriters, along with Schwartz, were "J. Thomas" and "J. Thornton". I wonder if those 2 were 2 more of The Wonderettes? I also suspect that the girls group who backed Calvin Williams on "Lonely You'll Be" were The Wonderettes, as they were listed as backing Johnnie Mae Matthews on that same song, with the same instrumental background. Although there seems to be no Wonderettes' vocal backing track on the released Matthews version, I suspect that an earlier mix did have the same one that backed up Williams, but was removed for Matthews' release (maybe to bring Matthews' vocal and the great instrumental more upfront for a cleaner sound). Then, the credit for The Wonderettes' backing up on the cut was forgotten to be removed. I've never seen any posters or adverts for the group appearing. So, I don't even know how many group members there were. We had some discussion about them on Soulful Detroit Forum when talking about The Enterprise and Ruby labels, and Johnnie Mae Matthews. But, I'm not sure if those old threads survived the website overhaul loss of archives disaster. But, I seem to remember that Ron Murphy and other old-time Detroit music industry veterans DID remember The Wonderettes appearing locally. They definitely existed as a viable local group from about 1965-68. They weren't just a "studio group".

That was completely a New York production. All 3 Hamilton brothers operated out of New York when they weren't in Detroit. Most of Ronny Savoy's cuts were New York productions (MGM and Epic). His Detroit period (with Golden World/Ric Tic/Wingate from 1965/66) was a relatively short period of his career.

Nothing to do with The Fads' song of the same title, as Banks only worked in Philly, and The Fads only in Chicago (and, of course, the writing credits are different). I hadn't heard the Doug Banks song until now.

That was live, rather than just lip-sinking. They did a great job.

Yes, that's the original store stocker.

T.M. Parmalier is a misprint (deliberate or not), and the first issue. Jobete Music was certainly the proper reference, and was likely caught by Motown people, who 'forced" Lebaron Taylor and Don Davis to change it on subsequent press runs. I bought it new, and it first had "T.M. Parmalier." Later, they had "Jobete". I can't imagine why it didn't read Jobete from the start. The song was written by Frank Wilson and Marc Gordon in Los Angeles' Jobete Music Office in 1964, while they were working for Motown. I seem to remember that at least one Motown artist recorded that song.

When I was a youth, back in the early 195os, I used to buy most of my comic books sans cover for 5 cents each (rather than the full retail price of 10 cents). Ten cents was a LOT of money for a little kid, back in those days!

HA! HA! MOST NS records had NO demand from the day of their release! They didn't need a little hole to denote that nobody wanted them anymore.

Wow! Getting Mighty Close is fantastic! Sorry I turned off the radio after 1966. They certainly didn't play much decent Chicago stuff in L.A. (where I was stuck) after 1969, nothing but lousy commercial Chi-Lites.

Monitors-Crying In The Night Marvelettes-I Should Have Known Better Versatones-Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde Serenaders-Tears, Nobody, and A Smile Creations-Remember Me Spinners-Too Late I Learned

I believe that David Bupp stated in an interview that The Magnificent Men got to do some work with Carl Davis. So, he may well, himself, have suggested that they sing that song.

There was an advert for 1969 club date in Detroit for The Final Decisions, saying that they were formerly The Tempos (has to be Riley's Detroit Tempos). They had Charles Beverly listed as The Final Decisions' lead singer. I assume that Charles Beverly had also been a member of The Tempos. But i don't know if he was their lead singer. I do remember some Soulful Detroit threads discussing The Tempos, and Diamond Jim Riley and his labels. But I don't know if most were lost in the reformatting of the website.

Chicago's Thomas Records was owned by former Impressions' manager, Eddie Thomas. He had his label distributed by various different labels and distributors at different times (Chess (along with Monk Higgins' labels) and Buddah (along with Curtis Mayfield's Curtom Records). I don't recall Eddie Thomas releasing any gospel. As The Thomas Records which released The Thomas Singers is likely named after the group (rather than coincidentally after Eddie Thomas), I doubt that it is Eddie Thomas' label, but, rather a one-shot label used to release The Thomas Singers' records. So, I'd guess that it is a label likely to be located somewhere other than Chicago, otherwise, the owners would have used another name to avoid confusion with Thomas' label.

I always wondered why the instrumental sounded so very much like Detroit. But saying that Bateman brought Terry to Juggy Murry, sounds like he brought him to New York to record. Bateman got his New York crew headed by Richard Tee to do a great job of "simulating the Detroit(even Motown) Soul Sound. Often, drummer Pretty Purdie could sound like Benny Benjamin, Pistol Allen or Uriel Jones. I've been told all Bateman's productions for the New York labels were recorded in New York. But some of those backing tracks sound suspiciously like Detroit. I wonder if Bateman hadn't had several of the backing tracks recorded in Detroit, and just recorded the lead vocals, and, perhaps the backing vocals in New York.

I've never seen it. And I've seen most of the Wand numbers. Yet Wand 159 rings a bell. I wonder if I've seen a different Wand 159.

Very nice! I like both sides, despite my not liking much recorded after 1970. Interesting that this group was The Enchanters on Tee Pee.

I always thought that Robert Bateman had "One More Hurt" recorded entirely in New York. Did he bring Mike Terry to New York? Or did he have the backing tracks recorded in Detroit, and just record the vocals in New York (as in "If It's All the Same To You Babe")?

Viola Wills' version was the Black stations' hit in L.A. and San Francisco/Oakland. Pat Powdrill's didn't make the radio and didn't sell at all. I don't remember a 3rd version, at all.

I've never seen a copy of "Daddy Rollin' Stone on Festival. Only a multi-coloured(old label design) copy of "Oh!"

Jimmy Ricks had left The Ravens by the late middle '50s. His first new group was The Ricketeers. His second was The Raves. The Raves (NOT Ravens) backed him up on "Daddy Rollin' Stone" (according to the ATCO label.

Because Hazel and Robert Coleman were Berry Gordy's first inlaws, and they kept a civil relationship with him, AND Don Davis had worked at Motown and knew many of their musicians (and he also knew them from his playing guitar on non-Motown sessions with many of them), Davis' DaCo, Thelma and GeGe sessions used mostly Motown musicians. It should be no surprise that so many of them sounded a lot like Motown cuts.

I prefer the unreleased version, as the vocals and instruments sound cleaner/clearer. The released version seems to have more bass.

Here's a link to the released Apollo version: