Robbk

The older Derby label was located in New York, and had mostly R&B and Doo Wop and a little Pop and Jazz on it. The later Derby was a subsidiary of Sam Cooke and JW Alexander's SAR Records. It has some nice records on it in addition to Mel Carter and Johnny Taylor. It was located in L.A., and ran in the early to mid '60s.

Hildale Music was the publisher of Dorothy Pierce's (man she fronted) labels (Hi-Lite/REM/Pillar). As far as I know, Raldo never released a Hildale song. The Elites appearing on Hi-Lite and Raldo, and Pat Meehan appearing on both, are the only real connections. But Meehan was a free-lance songwriter, so that is a tenuous connection. From what we have so far, I'd guess that Raldo had a different owner and chief producer from that of the Hildale labels. I don't think they were any more connected than any other 2 Detroit record companies during 1962-64.

Sorry! I meant Elites on Hi-Lite, rather than REM.

Does anyone have any other Raldo records, so we can find out if there are any connections to Hi-Lite/REM/Pillar?

I was around in Chicago and Detroit in the mid '60s, and never saw that record, or that label. I'd guess it is a bootleg. Those Clifton Records were probably pressed in the late '70s, so the Like It Is record may have been pressed then, as well.

Yes. Please DO ask her if she remembers The Andantes singing background on "I've Got A Right To Cry". That will help us a lot. Also, ask her if she's ever heard of a song or instrumental track titled "Lead Me Guide Me". Ask her if she knows if The Velvelettes or another group (or La Brenda Ben) sang it.

I would be mildly surprised, as it was a fairly easy record to find in numbers during the 1970s. But NOTHING about The NS scene would shock me, as some pretty weird things have happened.

Well, if they bootlegged "The Gorilla", then it should be more likely than not that they also bootlegged "Lovers".

I saw the Zanzibar pressing. It's clearly a 1970s pressing, and loogs rather like a re-issue than a bootleg.

That was Barry Despenza's label. That record DID come out in 1966. I believe he had a legitimate re-issue in 1970. I'm sure Bob A. can tell us the story.

"I'm No Stranger" was the HIT side on KGFJ in LA when that record was out. They never played the flip.

Same group. "Lovers" by The Blendtones was released on Success 101. Many of Success' artists worked out of Chicago. It may be that the owner's address was in Des Moines, but most or all of the recordings were made in Chicago. I bought "Lovers" new on Success, and thought that was the original label. I never heard of the Zanzibar release. Maybe Zanzibar was the original, local, label, and it was leased to Success. Or, maybe Zanzibar was a legitimate reissue, or a bootleg for the Doo-Wop market. Does anyone here know? (Bob A?)

I have forgotten that there was a record by The Elites on Raldo(I'm pretty sure I have it-but can't check now, because I'm not with my Detroit 45s. Apparently, the Elites having releases both on REM and Raldo caused the question of relationship between the two labels.

Nothing on The Dawnbreakers indicating a link to Hi-Lite/REM.

Yes. And it's on a couple others, as well. It looks to me like the Chicago productions were a little later than the earliest Conlo Productions, which all seem to have been made in Philadelphia (but some Chicago people were involved). It seems that Jerry Butler was commuting back and forth between Chicago, Philadelphia and New York. A few of those early Dee Dee Sharp Conlo productions with her singing Jalynne songs by Barrett Strong, sound like they were recorded in Chicago. But, i've been told that not only her vocals, but also the instrumental tracks, were recorded entirely in Philadelphia. I am pretty sure that The Shells and Jamo Thomas would likely have been recorded in Chicago. And that Shells' lineup was certainly a St. Louis or Chicago group, and definitely not the New York group that sang "Baby Oh Baby".

Ha! Ha! That's one of the biggest understatements ever made!

No. The acetate we had was a Jobete Music, Inc. acetate with only the song title listed, as those are only references to signify company ownership, and it does not matter which artist sang it. The artist who sing the recordings used for reference don't even need to be under contract (demo tapes are often used). I had "The Beljeans" listed on my tape that Rod ran off, but forgot to tell him that the artist for that song was unknown. I just used it as a placeholder, so it could help me remember which unknown artist song it was (rather than have several songs on the same tape listed as "unknown artist". The "Beljeans" actually were The Andantes, as confirmed by Louvain Demps, on a thread on Soulful Detroit. I continue to insist that "I've Got a Right to Cry" is NOT LaBrenda Ben on lead. It might well be The Beljeans (meaning, really, The Andantes), but only backing up some OTHER single female artist, -or it is another whole group.

Yes, that came from the joke, as The Beljeans were credited as La>Brenda Ben's back-up group on one of her Gordy singles (and, I believe, also the Motown 1033 pressing of it).

Yes. That was on Rod's tape from me, along with "I've Got a Right To Cry" (which may well have been misslabeled as by LaBrenda Ben (thereby starting the name confusion)).

Was it the same song as "Any Girl In Love" by Kim Weston, recorded in 1964? I can't believe anyone wouldn't recognise Kim's voice (regardless of automatically knowing "Irene and The Scotts" was a "cover-up" name).

All I have to say is that I'm skeptical. The odds of such a coincidence are almost nil. Is there a possibility that the artist name could have been added later, or that that acetate was made in the late 1970s? The use of "Lead Me, Guide Me" as even a working title for that song is highly suspicious, in the first place. Who would think of such a completely inappropropriate title for that song (EVEN if the words weren't yet written). I also can't imagine a different song, with the title of "Lead Me, Guide Me", fitting the music of that song. I've played all the LaBrenda Ben cuts, both released and unreleased. I'll NEVER be convinced by ANYONE, that that is LaBrenda Ben singing. Look at the trouble one little joke has caused.

Maybe they just had the Jobete Music acetate (which had no artist name), and had heard that "Someone who had worked at Motown" had stated that it was sung by her. I find it extremely difficult to believe that my intended ironic statement (picking someone I KNEW couldn't be the artist) would actually BE the artist (out of scores of Motown artists I could have chosen). It is VERY, VERY difficult for me to believe such a coincidence is possible. THAT is just NOT LaBrenda Ben's voice.

Here's the scan of REM 106:

The Frank Kinsel is Caucasian "teen Rock & Roll". Here's a link to the label scan: https://collectorsfrenzy.com/details/120848526581/Rare_Rockin_TEEN_RR_FRANK_KINSEL_Frankie_She_Dont_Love_You_REM_106_Listen

Wow! That's very interesting! I'd LOVE to hear that! Never heard of it. Love to see a label scan, as well.