Robbk

Perhaps there's a clue to where these records were pressed on the runout wax of some of the other records with that same label font (Ray Agee, The Magnificents, etc.)?

If you say it was Motown sending Diana Ross to Golden World to record because The Snakepit was busy, then it would have been a Motown production. if thatwas in 1966, why would they have sent her to Golden World? Why would Robert Staunton be producing her-even if this occurred before his falling out with Berry Gordy, why would they have Robert Staunton producing Diana Ross, as a solo artist in early 1966? Why then was the publishing Myto Music rather than Motown's Jobete Music? I can't see Berry Gordy using a Golden World published song before the buyout. Ed Wingate was Gordy's rival, despite being smaller. Gordy was furious that he was "stealing his musicians", and scoring hits in his "backyard". he would NOT have sent his flagship artist to record leasing studio time at his rival's studio, and would NOT have recorded a Myto song, before he bought Wingate out. By the time of the first buyout, Robert Staunton was already gone from Motown, after having an argument with Gordy over pay and producer credits. Gordy would not have sent his most favoured artist to his rival's studio to record a song written by a hated ex-employee. The recording has to be Barbara Mercer singing in a purely Golden World production.

Interesting that both sides of her 45 were written by Robert Staunton (for Wingate's Myto Music), and arranged by Arthur Wright, who worked out of L.A. Solid Hitbound brought The O'Jays to Detroit and had Mike Terry arrange their cuts. This situation seemingly had Robert Staunton produce shawn Robinson in L.A. as an independent producer for Imperial (to whom she was signed as an artist). Was it a deal done by Wingate with Imperial, sending Staunton to them? Staunton had a falling out with Berry Gordy, in late 1965. Maybe Staunton just went over to Wingate's Golden World/Ric Tic just after (staying in Detroit). And then Wingate placed him in this deal. Or, maybe Staunton, who had worked in New York and Chicago, went to L.A. and made an independent deal. But, then, why weren't the songs published by Imperial's Metric Music? So, it seems more likely that Wingate made the deal with Imperial/Minit.

So, Golden World had Barbara Mercer record the song (for potential release on their own label, or as a demo for other artists). They ended up not releasing her version, but Imperial/Minit decided to produce Shawn Robinson singing it). The Barbara Mercer recording was "discovered" at the same as many other tapes from Groovesville (which included songs both published by Don Davis' Groovesville Music, that had been used by artists on Solid Hitbound Productions (LeBaron Taylor and Don Davis), and also songs that had been published by Ed Wingate's and JoAnne Bratton's Myto Music, that were, apparently, brought to Wingate by Don Davis (who worked as a producer with the former's labels, and in partnership with Wingate on particular projects. What I find that is interesting, is that neither of Barbara Mercer's Golden World 45s has even one song produced, or even written, by Don Davis. So why was that Barbara Mercer cut found, together with Groovesville tapes? It should have been found at Motown, with the other Golden World/Ric Tic tapes. Does anyone know the source of that "find" from the 1980s that resulted in the bootlegged "Groovesville Cassette" tape sales? Can anyone tell me where Shawn Robinson was from? A Detroit artist? Or just another Imperial/Minit artist who recorded a song controlled by Don Davis of Solid Hitbound Productions) arranged in the same deal that had Solid Hitbound producing those 4 songs by The O'Jays in Detroit (A similar deal that Solid Hitbound had with Verve to produce Terri Bryant)?

At least, I, myself, don't know enough about Cameo pressings to determine which was first and which was later. It's possible that at the beginning of a national release, they had pressings made on The East Coast, in The Midwest and on The West Coast (and possibly, also in The South), all at the same time. It is also possible, that one represents a later pressing (although, if so, likely in the same year, and all during the same sales run-NOT a re-issue), so why make a distinction between the two in terms of originality? Still, it seems more likely to me that they were both made within a week or two of each other, but that the difference in label design represents the difference in the typesetters and paper used by different regional pressing plants.

Clearlya Groovesville track. Why would Diane Ross be singing on a Groovesville track? Sounds more like Barbara Mercerat times, but also not in places. But, I'd still guess Mercer. She did record for Don Davis and Lebaron Taylor and Ed Wingate. I really doubt that Diane Ross ever did. This singer doesn't sound anything to me like Sandy Wynns.

The Trankey-Doo???? Never heard of THAT!

No, I never went to San Bernardino or Riverside to look for records, or to visit collectors or record label owners.

As I stated before, I looked through hundreds of thousands of 45s in the mid-late '60s (in places all over USA (except the very deep South) and never saw a blue BG Blue Rock. I only saw it during the '70s. On the other hand, sometimes a different colour label base BG was often used in a pinch, when the record company was in a hurry to get the records out on the street, when the proper colour had run out a a given plant. On the other hand, I can't imagine that being the scenario with this particular Blue Rock release.

I'd like to know that as well, and also who owned the label, who all were involved, where they recorded, etc. I have never seen any other artists on Satch. The only producers (J.J. Jones and James Finch), were group members. So, perhaps it was a proprietary label. I do know that Billy McGregor was their arranger. In addition to the 2 producers writing for the group, Johnson, Adams and Dodson were writers (possibly the 3 other group members). Was J.J. Jones Johnny Jones, who wrote for Jerry Butler and Curtis Mayfield's and Carl Davis' crews? or was he Jimmy Jones, who worked with The Leaners at Mar-V-Lus Records? Or was he a different J. Jones? One of their music publishers, Heno Music, was, at least partly owned by Billy McGregor (maybe. together with Jump Jackson?). That ties this label, at least partially, with the Billy McGregor-related family of small independent Chicago labels. McGregor may have been the label's A&R man, who ran it's day to day operations and recording sessions.

I think you're half-kidding (or completely kidding) here, and this proves I have no sense of humour. But, nevertheless, as a masochist bent proving I'm a thickhead, I feel obliged to make this point: I resided in L.A. full-time from 1966-mid 1972, worked in The Ghetto (at Crenshaw & Jefferson), regularly attended The Californian Club and Dick Barnett's Guys N' Dolls, listened to KGFJ every day, helped Mrs Dolphin carry in and sort records at Dolphins of Hollywood at all 3 stores, regularly visited Dooto Music Center, Sam's, Pat's, Flash, Herman Griffith's and many of the other Ghetto record shops, and I NEVER heard of Sandy Golden, nor saw a poster for an appearance by her? That's likely because she wasn't recording, until at least, the early '70s. I also went to parties in South L.A. and West Adams, and never saw a Sandy Golden record there, nor in any record collections (including that of Steve Propes, Chris Peake, John (The weird) from Hollywood(forget name), Norman Presley or Lonnie Cook. I'd be very surprised if she had had a gig before 1970. And if she did have a few afterwards, I'd be surprised if she sold any of her records there. I like the theory that Fortier recorded her over the Sweets' master tape instrumental, to see if he could make some sales. In any case, as others have stated, without any evidence to the contrary, it's reasonable to consider this still very rare record a legitimate original (just more likely to be from the '70s than '60s). It's still a very nice record to have. If I were to have it, I wouldn't toss it off the shelf for being a '70s record (after all, I Do own about 25 of them!)-one is even from as late as 1975!)

That Manship explanation jibes with my experience. I looked through hundreds of thousands of US 45s from 1966-1970, and NEVER saw the blue issue, until seeing a few during the 1970s.

My point is that I have a hard time believing it is a mid/late '60s pressing, having dwelt in L.A. and looked for records, daily, from 1966-mid 72, and not having seen such a label font or design there, during that period. As to whether or not it is a boot or legitimate '70s release, I can't say. But, if it were a Soussain boot, why did HE not send it to UK, Belgium or The Beach scene (as Fortier should have done)? Perhaps Fortier DIDN'T know about those scenes, but pressed these up in the early '70s just to take a chance on getting some action? But those 2 cuts don't really have a sound that would have gotten much sales, base on what i remember was being played on KGFJ and WVON at that time. I just don't know enough to comment on whether it might be a boot or not. But I am extremely confident that it wasn't a '60s L.A. pressing.

This seems to be the most likely scenario. My problems were more with the release date. The Artisan stamp not being on the known Soussain boots, is a good point. This makes it reasonable that it may have been a legitimate later pressing by Fortier (who (in this case) would have had to have owned the master-rather than Fortier and Sanders, together)), who decided to get some action from it during the '70s (upon finding out there was demand for mid to uptempo '60s Soul in various dance club scenes (NS, Belgium, Beach, etc). That would have been similar to Harthon's pressing up records in the mid '70s. My problem was that I hadn't seen labels like that in L.A. during the '60s.

I guess that The Famous Flames didn't have to do much work to get billing on this 45. It would make a Group Harmony record collector angry having picked up this "gem" without having heard it.

I wish I could read those label credits, but they're too blurry. It looks like Larry levy (?) produced "Boogaloo News". I don't want to buy "Boogaloo News", as I don't like the sound of either side. I DO like "Don't Panic Baby", a LOT.

I'm sure he means radio.

That would be great. I have a lot of extra Specialty, Mr. Peeke, Cuca, Loma, Bell, Madison, Mod, Scepter, Wand, Jamie-Guyden, Jubilee-Josie, Cameo-Parkway, Rendezvous, Liberty, Imperial, Minit, Del-Fi, Dot, Everest, Carlton, King/Federal/Deluxe/Bethlehem, Fire, Fury, Coed, Ascot, CIRCA, ARDCO, USA, Chess/Checker/Cadet, Motown, Stax, Volt, and some unusual small indies, plus scads of the majors' various sleeves. What I'm looking for is 1950s US R&B indie sleeves, such as Modern/RPM/Flair/Crown, Jubilee, Atlantic(artist renderings), Rama, Gee, End, Gone, Aladdin, Swing-Time, Dootone, and any others from 1950-1958 on R&B indie labels.

I was there in L.A. in the mid-late 1960s. I never saw any Bobby Sanders/Soultown material on a one-off label. I never saw that label design or font on any other L.A. label until Soussain's boots of the '70s. Why would these 2 cuts not appear on a Bobby Sanders-related label? It just doesn't look like L.A. '60s to me. It isn't the type of cut that would end up on an L.A. one-off label, in any case. I don't think that Fortier owned the masters alone (to be able to have it released outside Soultown. But, for the sake of agrument, let's assume that he DID. Wouldn't he have tried to get the record into shops by having some sort of distribution (taking it to an existing label/distributor. The label just doesn't look right for the time and location. Nothing about it looks Kosher.

Most or all the records I've found that had been stored for 30-40 years had earlier been sitting at distributors' warehouses or in producers' garages, and usually had dust inside the jackets, and paper scratches from movement inside the box, or a little handing while in the sleeves. Usually, they don't look so pristine. Everything. to me, points to them all being a boot, with Soussain having had access to the master tape.

Johnny & Joe ALWAYS worked out of New York. I was in L.A. starting in late 1966. and found a lot of records from the '50s and early '60s, looking through hundreds of thousands of 45s. I don't remember seeing that particular label font and label layout on ANY record (certainly no California record) used until Soussain's boots in the late '70s. I don't remember any "Masterpiece" label from California (only a budget pop label from New York) from the '50s or '60s. That new York label shown above must be from the late '70s. The label in question doesn't look like a California 1960s label to me. I'd guess that it was a late '70s Soussain boot.

Thanks. The New Blues was Ted Ashford's band, rather than a background vocal group.

I like "Egyptian Love" best from that LP.

I never liked James Brown's funk recordings (latest King recordings and Polydor). And I started disliking him even more, after he got in an argument with my parents and insulted them, while they were together on a flight from London to New York. But I did like James Brown and The Famous Flames' recordings with Federal Records as well as his first several King releases. They were R&B group harmony cuts, with a slight Bluesy flavour, similar to The Five Royales' style. In fact, they redid a former big hit by The Five Royales, "Think". I'd bet you'd like some of his earliest recordings, although they certainly didn't have a "Northern Soul" type beat. I especially like "Try Me", "Please, Please, Please", "Good Lovin' ", "This Old Heart", "Think", "I'll Go Crazy".

I'll bet I've listened to over a million songs in my life since 1950. I'd bet that a LOT more than 500 of those are "Truly Great Records". I'll have to admit that i don't think about all 1,000 or 5,000 or 10,000 of those truly great records every day. So, I might appreciate when someone brings up one that I haven't thought of for maybe 10 or 20 or 30 or even 40 years. then I can go back and listen to it, and get some nice enjoyment and reminiscence. When you are old, and have heard many songs in your life, or met many people in your life, you get busy, and may not have time to think of all of them each day, or even once a month, or even once a year (or even not for a 20 year period). That doesn't mean they weren't great, or even that they didn't have much influence on your life. people are busy with the details in their lives they are confronted with at a given instance. The years fly by like nothing. That is especially true the older one gets. My last 30 or 40 years have flown by like a few weeks. Every year goes by faster than the one before. I appreciate meeting or hearing someone I haven't seen or heard from for many years. the same is true for songs (even on records I have sitting on my shelves, that I haven't heard in 40 or 50 years. I just recently heard a great song I hadn't heard since few months after I bought it in 1956 (ballad side of Robins on Whippet 203). i loved it when I first heard it, and I still do very much. I just, somehow didn't hear it over the years, not on the radio as an oldie, and I just forgot to play it. That doesn't mean it had low quality. I'm sure there will be several recordings on different people's "Top 500" here that I have in my collection, that I haven't played (or, possibly haven't heard) in 10, 20, 30 or 40 years, that I'll be glad to remember and hear again, as well as a few songs I've never even heard (not being involved in The NS Scene).