Robbk

Clearlya Groovesville track. Why would Diane Ross be singing on a Groovesville track? Sounds more like Barbara Mercerat times, but also not in places. But, I'd still guess Mercer. She did record for Don Davis and Lebaron Taylor and Ed Wingate. I really doubt that Diane Ross ever did. This singer doesn't sound anything to me like Sandy Wynns.

The Trankey-Doo???? Never heard of THAT!

No, I never went to San Bernardino or Riverside to look for records, or to visit collectors or record label owners.

As I stated before, I looked through hundreds of thousands of 45s in the mid-late '60s (in places all over USA (except the very deep South) and never saw a blue BG Blue Rock. I only saw it during the '70s. On the other hand, sometimes a different colour label base BG was often used in a pinch, when the record company was in a hurry to get the records out on the street, when the proper colour had run out a a given plant. On the other hand, I can't imagine that being the scenario with this particular Blue Rock release.

I'd like to know that as well, and also who owned the label, who all were involved, where they recorded, etc. I have never seen any other artists on Satch. The only producers (J.J. Jones and James Finch), were group members. So, perhaps it was a proprietary label. I do know that Billy McGregor was their arranger. In addition to the 2 producers writing for the group, Johnson, Adams and Dodson were writers (possibly the 3 other group members). Was J.J. Jones Johnny Jones, who wrote for Jerry Butler and Curtis Mayfield's and Carl Davis' crews? or was he Jimmy Jones, who worked with The Leaners at Mar-V-Lus Records? Or was he a different J. Jones? One of their music publishers, Heno Music, was, at least partly owned by Billy McGregor (maybe. together with Jump Jackson?). That ties this label, at least partially, with the Billy McGregor-related family of small independent Chicago labels. McGregor may have been the label's A&R man, who ran it's day to day operations and recording sessions.

I think you're half-kidding (or completely kidding) here, and this proves I have no sense of humour. But, nevertheless, as a masochist bent proving I'm a thickhead, I feel obliged to make this point: I resided in L.A. full-time from 1966-mid 1972, worked in The Ghetto (at Crenshaw & Jefferson), regularly attended The Californian Club and Dick Barnett's Guys N' Dolls, listened to KGFJ every day, helped Mrs Dolphin carry in and sort records at Dolphins of Hollywood at all 3 stores, regularly visited Dooto Music Center, Sam's, Pat's, Flash, Herman Griffith's and many of the other Ghetto record shops, and I NEVER heard of Sandy Golden, nor saw a poster for an appearance by her? That's likely because she wasn't recording, until at least, the early '70s. I also went to parties in South L.A. and West Adams, and never saw a Sandy Golden record there, nor in any record collections (including that of Steve Propes, Chris Peake, John (The weird) from Hollywood(forget name), Norman Presley or Lonnie Cook. I'd be very surprised if she had had a gig before 1970. And if she did have a few afterwards, I'd be surprised if she sold any of her records there. I like the theory that Fortier recorded her over the Sweets' master tape instrumental, to see if he could make some sales. In any case, as others have stated, without any evidence to the contrary, it's reasonable to consider this still very rare record a legitimate original (just more likely to be from the '70s than '60s). It's still a very nice record to have. If I were to have it, I wouldn't toss it off the shelf for being a '70s record (after all, I Do own about 25 of them!)-one is even from as late as 1975!)

That Manship explanation jibes with my experience. I looked through hundreds of thousands of US 45s from 1966-1970, and NEVER saw the blue issue, until seeing a few during the 1970s.

My point is that I have a hard time believing it is a mid/late '60s pressing, having dwelt in L.A. and looked for records, daily, from 1966-mid 72, and not having seen such a label font or design there, during that period. As to whether or not it is a boot or legitimate '70s release, I can't say. But, if it were a Soussain boot, why did HE not send it to UK, Belgium or The Beach scene (as Fortier should have done)? Perhaps Fortier DIDN'T know about those scenes, but pressed these up in the early '70s just to take a chance on getting some action? But those 2 cuts don't really have a sound that would have gotten much sales, base on what i remember was being played on KGFJ and WVON at that time. I just don't know enough to comment on whether it might be a boot or not. But I am extremely confident that it wasn't a '60s L.A. pressing.

This seems to be the most likely scenario. My problems were more with the release date. The Artisan stamp not being on the known Soussain boots, is a good point. This makes it reasonable that it may have been a legitimate later pressing by Fortier (who (in this case) would have had to have owned the master-rather than Fortier and Sanders, together)), who decided to get some action from it during the '70s (upon finding out there was demand for mid to uptempo '60s Soul in various dance club scenes (NS, Belgium, Beach, etc). That would have been similar to Harthon's pressing up records in the mid '70s. My problem was that I hadn't seen labels like that in L.A. during the '60s.

I guess that The Famous Flames didn't have to do much work to get billing on this 45. It would make a Group Harmony record collector angry having picked up this "gem" without having heard it.

I wish I could read those label credits, but they're too blurry. It looks like Larry levy (?) produced "Boogaloo News". I don't want to buy "Boogaloo News", as I don't like the sound of either side. I DO like "Don't Panic Baby", a LOT.

I'm sure he means radio.

That would be great. I have a lot of extra Specialty, Mr. Peeke, Cuca, Loma, Bell, Madison, Mod, Scepter, Wand, Jamie-Guyden, Jubilee-Josie, Cameo-Parkway, Rendezvous, Liberty, Imperial, Minit, Del-Fi, Dot, Everest, Carlton, King/Federal/Deluxe/Bethlehem, Fire, Fury, Coed, Ascot, CIRCA, ARDCO, USA, Chess/Checker/Cadet, Motown, Stax, Volt, and some unusual small indies, plus scads of the majors' various sleeves. What I'm looking for is 1950s US R&B indie sleeves, such as Modern/RPM/Flair/Crown, Jubilee, Atlantic(artist renderings), Rama, Gee, End, Gone, Aladdin, Swing-Time, Dootone, and any others from 1950-1958 on R&B indie labels.

I was there in L.A. in the mid-late 1960s. I never saw any Bobby Sanders/Soultown material on a one-off label. I never saw that label design or font on any other L.A. label until Soussain's boots of the '70s. Why would these 2 cuts not appear on a Bobby Sanders-related label? It just doesn't look like L.A. '60s to me. It isn't the type of cut that would end up on an L.A. one-off label, in any case. I don't think that Fortier owned the masters alone (to be able to have it released outside Soultown. But, for the sake of agrument, let's assume that he DID. Wouldn't he have tried to get the record into shops by having some sort of distribution (taking it to an existing label/distributor. The label just doesn't look right for the time and location. Nothing about it looks Kosher.

Most or all the records I've found that had been stored for 30-40 years had earlier been sitting at distributors' warehouses or in producers' garages, and usually had dust inside the jackets, and paper scratches from movement inside the box, or a little handing while in the sleeves. Usually, they don't look so pristine. Everything. to me, points to them all being a boot, with Soussain having had access to the master tape.

Johnny & Joe ALWAYS worked out of New York. I was in L.A. starting in late 1966. and found a lot of records from the '50s and early '60s, looking through hundreds of thousands of 45s. I don't remember seeing that particular label font and label layout on ANY record (certainly no California record) used until Soussain's boots in the late '70s. I don't remember any "Masterpiece" label from California (only a budget pop label from New York) from the '50s or '60s. That new York label shown above must be from the late '70s. The label in question doesn't look like a California 1960s label to me. I'd guess that it was a late '70s Soussain boot.

Thanks. The New Blues was Ted Ashford's band, rather than a background vocal group.

I like "Egyptian Love" best from that LP.

I never liked James Brown's funk recordings (latest King recordings and Polydor). And I started disliking him even more, after he got in an argument with my parents and insulted them, while they were together on a flight from London to New York. But I did like James Brown and The Famous Flames' recordings with Federal Records as well as his first several King releases. They were R&B group harmony cuts, with a slight Bluesy flavour, similar to The Five Royales' style. In fact, they redid a former big hit by The Five Royales, "Think". I'd bet you'd like some of his earliest recordings, although they certainly didn't have a "Northern Soul" type beat. I especially like "Try Me", "Please, Please, Please", "Good Lovin' ", "This Old Heart", "Think", "I'll Go Crazy".

I'll bet I've listened to over a million songs in my life since 1950. I'd bet that a LOT more than 500 of those are "Truly Great Records". I'll have to admit that i don't think about all 1,000 or 5,000 or 10,000 of those truly great records every day. So, I might appreciate when someone brings up one that I haven't thought of for maybe 10 or 20 or 30 or even 40 years. then I can go back and listen to it, and get some nice enjoyment and reminiscence. When you are old, and have heard many songs in your life, or met many people in your life, you get busy, and may not have time to think of all of them each day, or even once a month, or even once a year (or even not for a 20 year period). That doesn't mean they weren't great, or even that they didn't have much influence on your life. people are busy with the details in their lives they are confronted with at a given instance. The years fly by like nothing. That is especially true the older one gets. My last 30 or 40 years have flown by like a few weeks. Every year goes by faster than the one before. I appreciate meeting or hearing someone I haven't seen or heard from for many years. the same is true for songs (even on records I have sitting on my shelves, that I haven't heard in 40 or 50 years. I just recently heard a great song I hadn't heard since few months after I bought it in 1956 (ballad side of Robins on Whippet 203). i loved it when I first heard it, and I still do very much. I just, somehow didn't hear it over the years, not on the radio as an oldie, and I just forgot to play it. That doesn't mean it had low quality. I'm sure there will be several recordings on different people's "Top 500" here that I have in my collection, that I haven't played (or, possibly haven't heard) in 10, 20, 30 or 40 years, that I'll be glad to remember and hear again, as well as a few songs I've never even heard (not being involved in The NS Scene).

The mike Terry Okeh productions had Terry recording the background tracks in Detroit, and also, sometimes recording the vocals in Detroit (Little Foxes-although he brought them in, from Chicago). So, they were either partly or fully "Detroit Records", while Billy Hambric on Drum was not in any way a Detroit record. Luther Ingram on HIB was a Detroit record. His release on Smash was a New York record, despite both having Robert Bateman and Popcorn Wylie work on them.

It's Detroit related, only in the sense that it was written by Detroit writer, Don Juan Mancha, but while he was in New York. It's Detroit-related as Maxine Brown's ABC song, written by Curtis Mayfield (while he was in New York) is a Chicago-related record (or the same as the Jalynne records with songs written by Curtis Mayfield, but written, produced and recorded in New York).

I think we missed this. "The Popeye" was a dance step based on how the Popeye character (E.C. Segar 1930s-'40s comic strip) moved in his movie cartoons. The "Popeye Waddle" was a variation of that, based on just how he walked in the cartoons. The first record I remember with "The Popeye" mentioned, was "Popeye" by Lamont Dozier on Anna Records, released in early 1961. It was pulled, and re-pressed as "Benny The Skinny Man", due to a pending lawsuit by Segar's lawyers. "The Popeye" was still around in 1962 and even 1963, after being given a boost by The Sherrys on their Philadelphia hit "Pop-Pop-Pop-Pie". Later, More Pop-Eye songs came out, including "The Popeye Waddle".

Bump up. At least the DJ who uploaded this song onto You-Tube should be able to post a label scan and provide some label information, and possibly answers to some of my questions.

Don Juan Mancha stated in an interview that he spent some months working in New York in the mid '60s, and that he wrote and produced and recorded the 2 songs on Billy Hambric's Drum Records release while in New York. I believe that Mancha used Richard Tee's band to record them. Drum was financed by a New York financier, and, thus, was a New York label. Mancha later moved to Chicago, but bounced between Chicago and Detroit to work on different recording projects.