Robbk

I've never liked The Four Tracks' Mandingo cuts very much. But, upon listening to them, I'd guess they were recorded using mostly Detroit musicians, and probably recorded in a lesser Detroit studio (with not-so-good acoustics) from which I have heard at least several records recorded.

There is no actual evidence. Toledo, Ohio, is essentially part of the Detroit Metropolitan Area. Almost all singers and groups from there recorded in Detroit. For every one from Toledo that recorded in Ohio, I'm sure that we could list 10 that recorded in Detroit. The liklihood is that they recorded in Detroit. However, you are correct that we have no evidence, whatsoever, that they recorded at Magic City. Mel Collins worked for Giant of Chicago. However, they recorded Ruby Andrews in Detroit, and had Mike Terry arrange other recordings of theirs in Detroit. If I had to bet money on it, I would guess that The Four Tracks' songs were recorded in Detroit. I would NOT bet money that it was recorded in Magic City Studio. Upon listening to it several times, again, it sounds not-at-all like the acoustics of soungs I know to have been recorded at Correc-Tone/Magic City, and the session players certainly don't sound like The Funk Brothers or any of the best Motown/Detroit musicians of the time. The 2 cuts sound like they were recorded in one of the low budget Detroit studios of the time. We know it was pressed in Detroit. It might also be possible that the vocals were recorded in Toledo, and the instrumental in Detroit (or Chicago, for that matter). Yes, "Glass City" refers to Toledo, which was known as "The Glass City", as that was a primary industry there. So, we have already admitted that Mandingo Records was a Toledo, Ohio company. But, as stated above, most Toledo based labels did their recording and pressing in Detroit, and most of their artists played most of their gigs in Michigan, rather than in Ohio. Toledo is to Detroit as East St. Louis, Illinois is to St. Louis, Missouri, and East Chicago, Indiana is to Chicago, Illinois, and Kansas City, Kansas is To Kansas City Missouri, and Newark, New Jersey is To New York, and Paducah, Kentucky is to Cincinatti, Ohio, and not even unlike as Windsor, Ontario, Canada is to Detroit, Michigan, USA.

Can't you upload it onto You-Tube, and post here a link to it?

Error.

I turned off the radio in late 1966, having to listen to 8-10 songs or so, before finding one I liked. I still liked a lot of Motown cuts up to about 1970 or so. During the early '70s, I only liked a handful of cuts (up to about 1972). After that, you could count the songs I like on your hands (a couple Spinners on Atlantic, Maxine Nightengale, "I'm Doing Fine Now" by New York City. 1967,'68 and '69 were already not all that much to my liking. My favourite years in music with, by far, my most favourite songs were 1964, 1953, 1965, 1954, and 1963. The acoustics and instrumentation of recordings in the '70s are not to my liking. Most of the songwriting and arrangements are not to my liking. It's just way too "new" sounding, I like the late '30s through the late '60s.

Ha! Ha! Ha! That's so funny to hear The Delta Rhythm Boys singing in Finnish. I've heard them sing in Swedish before. I bought "The Delta Rhythm Boys in Sweden" in 1956 (Jubilee red plastic 1966 release). It's funny to me. My brother lived in Oulu for 2 years (attended university there). He lives in Stockholm now. I have lots of friends in Finland through my Disney comic book work. I work for Sanoma Uitgevers (Dutch Disney Comics)-our parent company is Sanoma (Finnish firm)-So I sometimes work with them. When I next come to Finland, I will let you know ahead, so we can arrange a meeting.

But lots of full boxes were ruined completely from heat and storage warps, water damage, and lots of other boxes were melted down to re-use the plastic. Lots of other full boxes were probably thrown away, and ended up in landfills.

Yes! LOTS of non-union cash deals.

There's got to be something to that. The story goes that Gordy planned to use "Tammy" as his label name, but then soon found out their was another company with that name that was successfully selling records. He may well have offered to pay a one time fee to avoid a lawsuit from the Ohio label. We know they had to change to Tamla, so either they offered and failed to get clearance, or they just decided to use a different name when a lawsuit was threatened (the latter is the story I heard, in the early '60s).

We found financiers who "wanted to get into the music business, and LIED to them, telling them that "this song can'[t miss being a big hit!" "You'll make millions if it hits big!" Lots of suckers were found.

This is a nice late '60s Detroit Christmas ballad. Unfortunately I can't convert from my record player to digital:

My favourite Christmas song ever(maybe because I'm Jewish): It's WAy too short. I want it to go on and on, and on!

Not the most soulful.... but...

Everyone knows this one. I bought it new just when it was released:

"Christmas Time"-by jan Bradley. What could be better than The Chicago sound, written by Curtis Mayfield. The one possible improvement would be having The Impressions or Billy Butler and The 4 Enchanters backing her up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=w5rQH2vfggc

What about "Spending Christmas Day With You" by The Nibbs, or "Christmas Time" by Jan Bradley(written by Curtis Mayfield), "Merry Christmas" by The Cameos?

According to Ronnie's own website, he was born in December 1949, and "Sitting In My Class was released in 1967 (I have good ears!!!). That would have made him 17 years old when it was released.

That happened because Berry and Raynoma Gordy started a Recording Production business (RayBer Music) in August, 1958, before Berry started Tamla as a record company in January, 1959. They had an advert in the newspapers that they would take singers' songs, polish them up, record demo tapes, record final recordings, and shop the recordings to record companies and get them placed with a company that would press them, release them and see that they were distributed. Nick (Ferro) and The Jaguars' father answered the advert and RayBer got his son's group's (then called The Biscaynes) songs recorded, and placed with Detroit's local Ridge Records. Ridge may have been a label run by Gordy, as its only other known release was by Don McKenzie, and was also produced by Gordy, himself. Berry probably found a local financier for those 2 records, and, so, Ridge was a joint venture between RayBer and the financier. Don McKenzie later recorded for Gordy's Miracle Records, while The Biscaynes (later called Nick & The Jaguars, recorded for Tamla. RayBer had several other clients, including Canadian, Mike Power, whose schmalzy pop song "I left My Heart In Paris" was so awful, that Gordy couldn't place it with another label, so he probably issued it himself on Zelman Records (using a Jewish-sounding name-to give the impression that the label was owned by a Jewish financier). Power and RayBer probably split the pressing costs, with Power, himself having paid all the production costs. Wade Jones was another RayBer customer. He came to RayBer with a song he had written ("I Can't Concentrate"). Berry and Smokey Robinson wrote a song for the flip side. We don't know if Berry tried to shop Jones' two sides for release with an existing label and failed to place the record; or if they thought that the 2 songs they recorded on him were so strong, that they might make some decent money off them by releasing the song themselves on their own label. They released it on their own RayBer Records (which was NOT part of Tamla (Motown), but preceded it by being pressed before the start of 1959. It ended up actually being released AFTER Tamla's first release (Marv Johnson), because it took them until early 1959 to find a distributor to handle it, B&H Distributors (Robert West). Tamla 101 didn't have a distributor (but was distributed by Berry and Smokey out of their cars) until they got the pressing distribution deal with United Artists. Another production that was probably run through RayBer Music, was produced by Berry on Herman Griffin, and placed with Carmen Murphy's House of Beauty (HOB) Records, which was financed by her money-making beauty shop. It was the first record whose songs were published by Berry's Jobete Music. Before that, his own publishing company was called Bengal Music, his partnership with his sister Gwen and Billy (Roquel) Davis (AKA Ty Carlo) was called Fidelity Music.

I think it's been touched upon here in a thread or two. We talked about it on Soulful Detroit Forum. De-To was one of the Detroit Sound family of labels, owned by a Doctor named Kyle. Floyd Jones was his A & R man. Their were a handful of other releases on De-To, nothing outstanding to my taste, but a couple of them were also played on The Northern Scene.

Motown had a lot of weird non-Soul releases, including "Pushing Up daisies" by The Stylers, "Randy The Newspaper Boy"/"Happy Ghoul Tide" by Ray Oddis, a Motown single by Irene "Granny" Ryan (of The Beverly Hillbillies).

"Write Me A Letter" was "Jump Blues", a style that was around from the late 1930s through the early mid '50s. I wouldn't term it primitive in terms of "Doo Wop group harmony", as it wasn't a building block towards the latter. You may think it a building block of Soul or Funk Music, and in that sense, I suppose terming it "primitive" would make some sense.

I've always read that McNeir recorded "Sitting in My Class" in 1966. It's been stated that he won a radio station singing contest that won him a recording contract for one record, and that this was that record. But, I remember Frances Nero stating that she won in 1966, and Ronnie McNeir won the year after. Her 1966 release of "Keep On Loving Me" was the prize for her victory. If that is true, "Sitting in My Class would have been released in 1967 (which seems very possible to me, given the look of the label and the sound of the recording. We should be able to trace it by its pressing plant number, if it was pressed at one of the major Detroit/Michigan pressing plants, such as Archer, American

"The Mouse" was a BIG HIT! EVERYBODY watched Soupy's TV show, and danced "The Mouse". That was the "in" thing to do. Even university graduate students watched it. Soupy's sketches were full of double entendres. The comedy was on 2 levels. 1 little kids, the other "mature adult". i'm really surprised so much got by the censors. I, myself, was one of the few people my age that did NOT buy "The Mouse". Had its music been written by Stevenson and Hunter, and the instrumental tracks played by The Funk Brothers, I'd have bought it.

Sonny Til of The Orioles was around from the mid '40s through the early '70s. His Orioles groups changed. That group started recording in 1948. In 1953, his original Orioles split from him. He gathered together another group ("New" Orioles, and signed with VJ Records. His later Orioles with Charlie Parker Records and RCA had some personnel changes (but he sang with them in each of the 3 decades. The Robins started in 1949, and some of their members sang into the '60s with The Robins or The Coasters (after they split apart in late 1955. Roy Brown had records that sold reasonably well in The early '60s, so he would qualify. The Ink Spots were still singing and recording in the early '60s, so they should be added. I know a LOT of groups that started in 1950-52, who would just miss the cut. I don't know if Clyde McPhatter or Jackie Wilson were singing in the '40s/ They just miss the cut. Jackie had a Blues single out on JVB records in 1952, Clyde started with The Dominoes in 1951. Jimmy Ricks' Ravens were singing in the late '40s, and he had minor hits backed by The Ricketeers in the late '50s, and The Raves in the early '60s. I think that The delta Rhythm Boys were still gigging and doing some recordin in the early '60s, so they would qualify. The Five Keys started with Aladdin Records in 1951, so they would just miss the cut. Tony Middleton started with The Willows in 1953. I don't think he was singing professionally n the '40s. Joe Turner sang and sold records in all 3 decades. But then, many Blues singers did. The Blues had a much longer popular lifespan than Black Harmony group singing. As stated above Lee Andrews just missed the cut, starting out on Rainbow Records in 1952. The Clovers started in 1949, so they would qualify, as they sold records into the late 1960s. The Flamingos, Platters and Dells all started in the very early '50s, and so, just miss the cut. It's kind of arbitrary, to divide the decades by pure numbers because we have ten fingers on our hands. That causes a big problem, because the Black Harmony groups really started clicking in 1951-53, so hundreds of group members had lots of success during the '50s and '60s, but just missed the '40s. If you would start mentioning random NS artists, I think you'd be shocked to find out how very many had success in '50s R&B or Black Vocal Group Harmony, in addition to Gospel music (which everyone assumes).

After we find out that it IS Joey singing on these cuts (IF we do), I hope we can get a project going to get "I Wanna Thank You" pressed up on a 45. I definitely want to own one. the more I hear it, the more attached to it I get. It really grows on one. I can't believe that Davis never put out a release on that song, or "I Won't hurt You Anymore", for that matter. And I like Joey's version of "Did My baby Call" more than that of The Professionals, and at least as good as Steve Mancha's.